SWR Repaints and Refurbishments

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 1621 from Woking to London Waterloo has a fully functioning 444 buffet today, the shelves in the buffet are full and it is open.

 

[Goldfish62]

What changed the deadline to May (and when)? AIUI, the original franchise agreement specified the end of December 2018, with an extension to end of March 2019 if SWR were using all reasonable measures (or a similar phrase) to complete them. From a passenger perspective it's hard to believe they have been, especially as it looks unlikely the refurbs will be finished by either the beginning or the end of May anyway, unless progress speeds up greatly.

The detailed article in Modern Railways highlighted that the contractor had difficulty sourcing some parts, which led to the delay. I would imagine therefore that the DfT agreed a revised completion date of May. However, that was based on one unit per day being released since December (with working taking place 24/7).It is clearly nowhere near that, so May is impossible.

 

[Goldfish62]

I've just been on 450108 (unrefurbished) which has the upgraded WiFi and infotainment fitted. The WiFi is very fast, but websites still have a tendency to hang. However, the infotainment works perfectly and I watched "Karl Pilkington - the Moaning of Life".

 

[swt_passenger]

I'd suggest that it takes longer to refit a 444 due to the size and more extensive interior modifications over the shorter and less complex changes to a 450. Says to me there are two teams working and it just appears to you that they work on one unit at a time rather than having two on the go.

The Modern Railways article I quoted in a post a few weeks ago reckoned that the cycle time for both 450s and 444s was four days, and that a unit would be started every day, and there’d be four on the go together. There is a very rough 3:1 ratio between the two fleet sizes. It was never clear to me if the work is taking place 7 days a week.

 

[Goldfish62]

The Modern Railways article I quoted in a post a few weeks ago reckoned that the cycle time for both 450s and 444s was four days, and that a unit would be started every day, and there’d be four on the go together. There is a very rough 3:1 ratio between the two fleet sizes. It was never clear to me if the work is taking place 7 days a week.

The article stated that the production line would be 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Whether it is is quite another matter.

 

[swt_passenger]

The article stated that the production line would be 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Whether it is is quite another matter.

Yes, there was a discussion a while back about whether all the overnight paths shown in RTT actually got used, but I don’t think they were showing every day of the week. As well as STP paths in the near future, there seems to be four WTP paths per week to and from Basingstoke sidings, and a couple per week to and from Northam depot. It’s possible that the normal origin and destination before and after the work differs for 450 and 444. In other words I’m thinking the Basingstoke runs are 450s, but the Northams are for 444s?

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

I asked South Western Railway on Twitter when all 172 Desiro trains would be refurbished and they said they are not sure about it

 

[43096]

I asked South Western Railway on Twitter when all 172 Desiro trains would be refurbished and they said they are not sure about it

I’m not sure if that’s a reflection on the Twitter team and what they know or on SWR’s project management capability or both.

 

[DelW]

The detailed article in Modern Railways highlighted that the contractor had difficulty sourcing some parts, which led to the delay. I would imagine therefore that the DfT agreed a revised completion date of May. However, that was based on one unit per day being released since December (with working taking place 24/7).It is clearly nowhere near that, so May is impossible.

Thanks for the information, will be interesting to see when they're actually done and whether SWR get any further derogation.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

Does anyone know why Siemens 'stopped' doing the one-per-day refurbishment of a Desiro?

 

[Goldfish62]

Does anyone know why SWR 'stopped' doing the one-per-day refurbishment of a Desiro?

It's Siemens doing the work, not SWR, isn't it?

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

It's Siemens doing the work, not SWR, isn't it?

Ah yes, sorry I meant to say Siemens

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

444033 has been refurbished

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

Full refurbishment of trains:
444003, 444007*, 444010, 444015, 444019, 444020, 444025, 444029, 444033, 444034*, 444038, 444040, 444042 & 444044.(12 units completed)(27% complete)
*Currently being done

450005, 450008, 450015, 450016, 450018, 450019, 450020, 450032, 450033, 450037, 450038, 450041, 450075, 450079, 450081, 450082, 450083, 450084, 450085, 450091, 450094, 450097, 450100, 450103, 450111, 450113, 450115, 450119, 450121, 450122(30 units completed)(24% complete)
Let me know if any more trains have been fully refurbished and I will edit this post regularly

 

[WVL14]

The next 450 which moved to Eastleigh earlier this week is 450111.

450038 is also at Eastleigh undergoing modifications

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

The next 450 which moved to Eastleigh earlier this week is 450111.

450038 is also at Eastleigh undergoing modifications

So have the partly refurbished 450s started to be fully refurbished now?(450111 has had the part refurb)

 

[Bigfoot]

So have the partly refurbished 450s started to be fully refurbished now?(450111 has had the part refurb)

I would presume all the non 450/5 will be fully finished first then on to the 450/5s afterwards.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm on one of the 444s at the minute. Standard is very nice, though it is in some ways a half-job - nothing done to the slightly scruffy loo, for instance. Leather headrests look very classy, and while the seats are flat cloth it's a dark colour with a pattern which means they are not showing muck. Cushions have been replaced, and are a slightly different shape that I don't find quite as comfortable as the originals, and the headrest "wing" is smaller so less use for sleeping (the seat is overall slightly flatter and doesn't curve around your body as much). But overall, a decent job.

First Class on the other hand... This appears to use 2+2 FISA LEAN seats (the ones Abellio are going to use in Standard on the FLIRTs). These are excellent Standard seats (I popped in quickly and tried one; need to try one for a long journey but I think these could just unseat the Grammer IC3000 in my "best seat" stakes) but nowhere near First Class standards. That said, there do seem to be quite a few people in First, so maybe my prejudices don't count No way was I happy to pay £15 for a seat with less legroom and no more width than the Standard seat I'm in, though, just like with LNR.

In Standard however there are a pair of tables and a row of airline seats in the former First Class bit which have extra legroom, these are the ones to go for now!

 

[swt_passenger]

I'm on one of the 444s at the minute.
[…]
In Standard however there are a pair of tables and a row of airline seats in the former First Class bit which have extra legroom, these are the ones to go for now!

I’m reassured that you agree with my findings reported in post #1340. Potentially the best seats in the train...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m reassured that you agree with my findings reported in post #1340. Potentially the best seats in the train...

Basically the same as the "extra legroom" table at the cab end of 350/1s, or the priority airline seats at the inner vehicle end (minus the fairly low[1] risk of being unseated) - definitely the ones to go for! I'd be more willing to pay £15 to sit here than t'other side of the little door. FISA LEANs appear to be excellent Standard seats, but they are not suitable for 1st (other than where Standard is 3+2, though TBH I'd just chance getting a 2-side seat or nobody taking the middle rather than cough up).

I must admit I do prefer the toned-down dark blue over the original bright red.

[1] Despite the spec for priority seating requiring extra legroom, these seats are not popular with people needing priority seating as the seat in front is too far away to hold onto while sitting down. Really someone needs to rethink this spec, as it tends to knacker window alignment for no good reason.

 

[SWRtrain_fan]

I'm on one of the 444s at the minute. Standard is very nice, though it is in some ways a half-job - nothing done to the slightly scruffy loo, for instance. Leather headrests look very classy, and while the seats are flat cloth it's a dark colour with a pattern which means they are not showing muck. Cushions have been replaced, and are a slightly different shape that I don't find quite as comfortable as the originals, and the headrest "wing" is smaller so less use for sleeping (the seat is overall slightly flatter and doesn't curve around your body as much). But overall, a decent job.

First Class on the other hand... This appears to use 2+2 FISA LEAN seats (the ones Abellio are going to use in Standard on the FLIRTs). These are excellent Standard seats (I popped in quickly and tried one; need to try one for a long journey but I think these could just unseat the Grammer IC3000 in my "best seat" stakes) but nowhere near First Class standards. That said, there do seem to be quite a few people in First, so maybe my prejudices don't count No way was I happy to pay £15 for a seat with less legroom and no more width than the Standard seat I'm in, though, just like with LNR.

In Standard however there are a pair of tables and a row of airline seats in the former First Class bit which have extra legroom, these are the ones to go for now!

I also went on a refurbished 444 earlier this week. That day I was on a refurbished and unrefurbished 444. I find both seats comfortable but on the refurbished 444s, the leather headrests feel a bit softer in my opinion. I also prefer the SWR seat colours to SWT

 

[Adsy125]

[1] Despite the spec for priority seating requiring extra legroom, these seats are not popular with people needing priority seating as the seat in front is too far away to hold onto while sitting down. Really someone needs to rethink this spec, as it tends to knacker window alignment for no good reason.

Is there a requirement for priority seats to have extra legroom, or just to have a certain amount that isn’t generally met?

 

[WVL14]

So have the partly refurbished 450s started to be fully refurbished now?(450111 has had the part refurb)

All units going through Eastleigh now are receiving the full refit. Although units which have received the interim work are also going through again for the first class to be relocated to behind the cabs.
The 450/5 units will be the last to go through the programme.

 

[387star]

When will repainting the units externally commence

 

[molecrochip]

It appears that there has been a change to focus on availability of units over speed of refurbishment. When units were coming out of Eastleigh on a daily basis, there was noticeable short formations - I would estimate at least 3 450s missing.

I've noticed that the 1700 Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour appears to have gone back to a 444 formation. This was due to be 442 from 12/2018 but has been covered by 450s since. What I've not worked out is what has released 2 444s to cover the service release the 450s to restore full formations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there a requirement for priority seats to have extra legroom, or just to have a certain amount that isn’t generally met?

I believe it's a percentage, which is what causes the problem. If it was a minimum, you could have the whole unit the same and still meet requirements. Certainly the normal Standard seats on a Class 800 exceed the priority legroom on some classes.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not quite refurbishment, but staff now have a new uniform. It looks very smart and fresh, unlike the clown-like affairs produced by some other TOCs.

 

[Goldfish62]

The next 450 which moved to Eastleigh earlier this week is 450111.

450038 is also at Eastleigh undergoing modifications

450111 is back in service so that can be marked as done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not quite refurbishment, but staff now have a new uniform. It looks very smart and fresh, unlike the clown-like affairs produced by some other TOCs.

It follows the trend of being quite informal, almost the sort of thing you'd more expect from VTWC (and other than in colour quite similar to the early VTWC uniforms - I believe VTWC went back to being more formal at the request of the staff). Not sure if that's a good thing or not, but it would be interesting to know what the staff think of it.

It certainly looks better than Northern's informal and cheap and nasty looking effort. LNR's new kit also looks cheap and nasty like their entire brand.

 

[pompeyfan]

Apart from looking like the guards are selling gelato and the trousers cutting off all circulation to below the thighs I suppose it’s not too bad. Guards frustrated that they’re not allowed drivers soft shell jackets, and drivers not issued with trench coats which guards and platform staff have received.

The trouser issue is a bit of a bone of contention, it restricts guards and drivers when climbing into and out of a train. The material of the shirts isn’t great either. Majority of sizing is okay although many say the arm length on the blazer jackets are too long.

For those that wear the women issued clothes, the material is VERY thin and it’s been recommended in the uniform conduct guide that flesh coloured bras be worn, which has also been unpopular with the women (as well as the more leering men!)