SWR Strike Action: Strikes every day in December except 1st, 12th, 25th & 26th

[maxbarnish]

What about people who can't leave early though? e.g. those in actual jobs?

Unless I'm reading it wrong, but that seems ridiculous advice.

You're reading it right. This is their advice to me - it's OK for me as I'm an academic and can be flexible.

In practice, I would doubt they would penalty fare someone who went the bus after the one they advised but if that person tried to claim a delay, they could claim the official advice wasn't followed. I'm no expert really. Just fed up with the dispute - even though I am broadly sympathetic given I have seen how much Guards can offer on trains - although that's irrelevant to my point here.

 

[infobleep]

I checked this morning before I left home and it wasn't showing so I got the 07.06 all stations again!

Really annoying that the xx.05 and xx.35 peak extras from Waterloo are not stopping at Ashford this week even though they do normally!

I wonder what the circumstances are that means it can't be added any sooner? There has to be some valid reason.

Reminds me of the time during the Southern strikes when they were adding in a stop at East Croydon every day to a service. However they won't advertisw this in advance or make it up of the regular timetable. Always an addition.

No doubt if one asks on Twitter about SWRs train they will be ignored. I'm feeling cynical about South Western Railway at the moment.

 

[samuelmorris]

For this evening's trick, the 18:32 ex Waterloo will be extended from Basingstoke and terminated at Salisbury.

Calling at:
Surbiton
Woking
Farnborough
Fleet
Basingstoke
then all stops to Salisbury

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O15838/2019/06/21

A direct service from Surbiton and Fleet to the likes of Overton and Whitchurch? That's a new one to me. This strike action is producing some bizarre service and rolling stock patterns...

No doubt if one asks on Twitter about SWRs train they will be ignored. I'm feeling cynical about South Western Railway at the moment.

I shouldn't hold grudges but after some extremely poor customer service in the months following SWR taking over it's hard for me not to be cynical about them as well. That sort of thing rubs off on people, it's easy to see why people get outraged at times like these.

 

[infobleep]

A direct service from Surbiton and Fleet to the likes of Overton and Whitchurch? That's a new one to me. This strike action is producing some bizarre service and rolling stock patterns...


I shouldn't hold grudges but after some extremely poor customer service in the months following SWR taking over it's hard for me not to be cynical about them as well. That sort of thing rubs off on people, it's easy to see why people get outraged at times like these.

If they want to win my support more they need to honest and open. I don't feel they are doing that

 

[nuts & bolts]

If they want to win my support more they need to honest and open. I don't feel they are doing that

I think you’ll find the information teams resources at SWR are limited especially social media during this current disruption due to Contingency Guards redeployment.

 

[infobleep]

I think you’ll find the information teams resources at SWR are limited especially social media during this current disruption due to Contingency Guards redeployment.

So the social media people train as guards then?

 

[EastCoastway]

So the social media people train as guards then?

No they don't but there are people who are typically office based that might be deployed.

 

[Goldfish62]

SWR have released this statement:
Dear Customer,

I want to say sorry for what I know has been a challenging week for everyone. While we’ve run as many services as we can, I know that trains, particularly at peak time, have been crowded and uncomfortable. Thanks to the efforts of our volunteer contingency guards, and guards who reported for work despite the strikes, we’ve been able to run just over half of our normal services. While this has allowed us to keep you moving I realise it’s not what you expect or deserve, and for that I am sorry.

We’d hoped that we had saved you from further strikes when we offered the RMT union a framework agreement in February; which offered them the guarantee of a guard on every train if they agreed to work with us to develop a method of operation for our major new suburban fleet - which would allow us to deliver better performance for our customers. We thought discussions had been going well, and we had further dates in the diary, when the RMT announced this week’s strikes.

Despite this we have continued to try and persuade the RMT to come back to the table and work with us to find a solution that avoids future strike action impacting on you. Even while planning our strike timetable we met the RMT, and then wrote to them, offering new dates for talks. We have yet to receive a response.

I recognise that the current position may seem very confusing with the RMT continually referring to us removing the guard from our trains. This is not what we want to do. It is never what we wanted to do. The debate now is not around whether a guard is on the train, but what that guard does on the train. Modern trains can be operated in a number of ways, and what we have been trying to work through with the union is which method is best for our customers in terms of performance, safety and service.

We are committed to the role of the guard, we have over 70 more guards now than when we took over the franchise. What we want is for the union to work with us to help develop that role for the future in a way that benefits everyone.

Yours sincerely,

Andy Mellors
Managing Director
South Western Railway
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action/managing-director-message

 

[pompeyfan]

He forgot to add the bit saying that they’d been stringing the RMT along since February with only 3 meetings and still hadn’t told the RMT the findings of the HAZOP and their intended method of operation of the 701s... but I suppose they wouldn’t want to make themselves look bad.

 

[Ethano92]

He forgot to add the bit saying that they’d been stringing the RMT along since February with only 3 meetings and still hadn’t told the RMT the findings of the HAZOP and their intended method of operation of the 701s... but I suppose they wouldn’t want to make themselves look bad.

Yes as it's a statement... You can't single them out for trying to make themselves look good in a press release as if that's not the norm.

Anyway I do wonder if they're debating over full driver door control or driver open, door closing since these trains will supposedly have automatic braking and door opening.

Personally i think it's an insult to the passengers how their stories are so different, they're obviously BOTH not being very open and honest IMO

 

[pompeyfan]

Yes as it's a statement... You can't single them out for trying to make themselves look good in a press release as if that's not the norm.

Anyway I do wonder if they're debating over full driver door control or driver open, door closing since these trains will supposedly have automatic braking and door opening.

Personally i think it's an insult to the passengers how their stories are so different, they're obviously BOTH not being very open and honest IMO

Oh yes I completely agree that the RMT haven’t bathed themselves in glory, and as the offer on the table was ‘nothing is agreed until everything is agreed’ I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised come the autumn that the company go back to the idea of each train being ‘rostered’ a guard and crack on and do what they want, in the same way southern did with their 377 conductors.

You wonder what the sticking point is, as scotrail are DO-GC, Abellio are DCO but with full door competency.

I think the sticking point is that the union feels the company is dragging its heels

 

[Ethano92]

Oh yes I completely agree that the RMT haven’t bathed themselves in glory, and as the offer on the table was ‘nothing is agreed until everything is agreed’ I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised come the autumn that the company go back to the idea of each train being ‘rostered’ a guard and crack on and do what they want, in the same way southern did with their 377 conductors.

You wonder what the sticking point is, as scotrail are DO-GC, Abellio are DCO but with full door competency.

I think the sticking point is that the union feels the company is dragging its heels

Agreed, the safety argument is questionable.

I've asked this in the past but I still just don't get it. When the 701s come around. If SWR choose to run them DOO, despite what RMT say could they not train drivers from other unions and still run (at least some) of these trains DOO.

Yes you are right, I do wonder if SWR did just come upfront and say "we are doing this" that RMT would feel less left in the dark and progress would be made. I personally don't mind how my train is operated it's just really angers me to see the fair paying customers with no other choice to have to suffer.

 

[Goldfish62]

He forgot to add the bit saying that they’d been stringing the RMT along since February with only 3 meetings and still hadn’t told the RMT the findings of the HAZOP and their intended method of operation of the 701s... but I suppose they wouldn’t want to make themselves look bad.

What's HAZOP?

 

[pompeyfan]

Agreed, the safety argument is questionable.

I've asked this in the past but I still just don't get it. When the 701s come around. If SWR choose to run them DOO, despite what RMT say could they not train drivers from other unions and still run (at least some) of these trains DOO.

Yes you are right, I do wonder if SWR did just come upfront and say "we are doing this" that RMT would feel less left in the dark and progress would be made. I personally don't mind how my train is operated it's just really angers me to see the fair paying customers with no other choice to have to suffer.

Without turning this into another DOO tennis match (which we’re all bored of), I agree DOO statistically isn’t unsafe, but guards being on trains and involved in dispatch can prevent further issues, but we’ll leave that at that.

In regards to DOO, under the Drivers Restructuring it’s a grey area as to whether SWT bought DOO in 1998, no one seems to know for certain, not even chief ASLEF reps. If however they have it in their contracts, then they have to suck it up get on with it. If it’s not yet in their contract then ASLEF could instruct their members to refuse DOO, which could lead to a drivers strike. Before we go any further I want to stress that SWR drivers are the lowest paid drivers in the area, and possibly 2nd bottom across the country. The media will try to suggest that ‘greedy drivers safety concerns are paid off’ and that isn’t necessarily true.

The lack of clear cut honesty and smoke and mirrors is annoying.

What's HAZOP?

Risk assessments for different methods of operation as far as I know.

 

[samuelmorris]

Agreed, the safety argument is questionable.

I've asked this in the past but I still just don't get it. When the 701s come around. If SWR choose to run them DOO, despite what RMT say could they not train drivers from other unions and still run (at least some) of these trains DOO.

Yes you are right, I do wonder if SWR did just come upfront and say "we are doing this" that RMT would feel less left in the dark and progress would be made. I personally don't mind how my train is operated it's just really angers me to see the fair paying customers with no other choice to have to suffer.

As far as I'm aware, not that many drivers are RMT members are they? I thought drivers were typically mostly ASLEF, if union members at all. It'd be a pretty reckless move, but given how many TOCs have been affected by this issue, I'm surprised at least one hasn't tried 'to hell with it, DOO it is, pack your bags'. I think generally speaking TOCs have a bit more decorum than that, they would also presumably be aware that such an announcement would likely result in indefinite strike action from the guards until DOO was implemented. That sort of practice isn't really the sort of thing you can test in secret!

The comment about SWR driver salaries being lower than others is interesting. Why is that the case? I'm not opposed to increasing driver salaries if they get sullied with DOO, they are after all doing more work. The negative public (and more importantly press) perception is simply because train drivers' salaries are considered to be quite high to start with - otherwise I don't think it'd really come into consideration.

 

[pompeyfan]

GWR west drivers have just been harmonised with HS and LTV drivers, their only additional responsibility at the moment are to release doors on Turbos, but going forward with new stock they could be made to drive DOO on the Cornish branches etc

 

[nuts & bolts]

He forgot to add the bit saying that they’d been stringing the RMT along since February with only 3 meetings and still hadn’t told the RMT the findings of the HAZOP and their intended method of operation of the 701s... but I suppose they wouldn’t want to make themselves look bad.

I would have thought until the 701's are being put through the commissioning and fault free process, it won't be fully known what the HAZOP issues are. It will be already known generically with the Aventura 700's any Platform Train Interface issues so far, but each Class of train will be different due to ergonomics internally and external gauging.

 

[infobleep]

No they don't but there are people who are typically office based that might be deployed.

Well it was someone on Twitter who said Journey Check couldn't be updated.

 

[FenMan]

GWR west drivers have just been harmonised with HS and LTV drivers, their only additional responsibility at the moment are to release doors on Turbos, but going forward with new stock they could be made to drive DOO on the Cornish branches etc

Unless I've missed something, GWR drivers (and FGW and Thames Trains drivers before them) have always released the doors on the turbos running on my local line (North Downs).

 

[pompeyfan]

Unless I've missed something, GWR drivers (and FGW and Thames Trains drivers before them) have always released the doors on the turbos running on my local line (North Downs).

But it wasn’t in the T&Cs for west drivers (ex-Wessex) so they’ve received a harmonisation pay rise but the only increase in productivity required of them is to press the two red buttons.

 

[Goldfish62]

But it wasn’t in the T&Cs for west drivers (ex-Wessex) so they’ve received a harmonisation pay rise but the only increase in productivity required of them is to press the two red buttons.

Was there any increase for drivers who moved from HSTs to IETs given that they now have to release the doors, including being responsible for the somewhat complex SDO procedure?

 

[nuts & bolts]

Well it was someone on Twitter who said Journey Check couldn't be updated.

I have noticed this week of disruption that 'Darwin' has been running ok up to a point but as in previous RMT disruptions on SWR it has been intermittently turned off/on - more off than on.
The Tiger (info) feeds have been not displaying train formation lengths! Also when the published strike timetables were released there were additional albeit limited services running and not shown fully on CIS - customer information screens.

 

[pompeyfan]

Was there any increase for drivers who moved from HSTs to IETs given that they now have to release the doors, including being responsible for the somewhat complex SDO procedure?

I’m unsure, I’m only going by what a ‘West’ driver told me. I wasn’t aware the IETs had such a complicated SDO procedure. You’d think that if they can do it properly on Desiros and Electrostars then a government tendered new build would have it out the box, but that’s out the scope of this thread.

 

[Goldfish62]

I’m unsure, I’m only going by what a ‘West’ driver told me. I wasn’t aware the IETs had such a complicated SDO procedure. You’d think that if they can do it properly on Desiros and Electrostars then a government tendered new build would have it out the box, but that’s out the scope of this thread.

Apparently it's because en route they can use platforms of varying lengths at a number of stations so have to confirm the number of coaches to be released each time. That's what I'm told anyway.

 

[pompeyfan]

Apparently it's because en route they can use platforms of varying lengths at a number of stations so have to confirm the number of coaches to be released each time. That's what I'm told anyway.

That’s no different to quite a few places on the SWR and SN network. Track based beacons should have been the simple answer. Thanks for replying though, quite interesting.

 

[Carlisle]

That’s no different to quite a few places on the SWR and SN network. Track based beacons should have been the simple answer. Thanks for replying though, quite interesting.

With today’s mobile network technologies being claimed suitable to control driverless cars fairly soon, surely determining length & position of trains on a fixed right of way ought to be child’s play

 

[infobleep]

I have noticed this week of disruption that 'Darwin' has been running ok up to a point but as in previous RMT disruptions on SWR it has been intermittently turned off/on - more off than on.
The Tiger (info) feeds have been not displaying train formation lengths! Also when the published strike timetables were released there were additional albeit limited services running and not shown fully on CIS - customer information screens.

Thanks. How interesting.

I was just looking up services from yesterday from Southampton, on Real Time Trains and that showed trains to and from Weymouth as well as those to and from Poole. The Weymouth ones didn't have any route times of course as they didn't run.

I did not have show cancelled services switched on. So were the Weymouth trains showing on National Rail Enquiries yesterday? I have no way of checking.

 

[RPI]

Apparently it's because en route they can use platforms of varying lengths at a number of stations so have to confirm the number of coaches to be released each time. That's what I'm told anyway.

Only if a generic headcode is entered into the TMS, otherwise it's all automatic, if something is out of sync then the default number of doors released at each station is that of the shortest platform of that particular station.

 

[Goldfish62]

Only if a generic headcode is entered into the TMS, otherwise it's all automatic, if something is out of sync then the default number of doors released at each station is that of the shortest platform of that particular station.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Helvellyn]

In regards to DOO, under the Drivers Restructuring it’s a grey area as to whether SWT bought DOO in 1998, no one seems to know for certain, not even chief ASLEF reps. If however they have it in their contracts, then they have to suck it up get on with it. If it’s not yet in their contract then ASLEF could instruct their members to refuse DOO, which could lead to a drivers strike. Before we go any further I want to stress that SWR drivers are the lowest paid drivers in the area, and possibly 2nd bottom across the country. The media will try to suggest that ‘greedy drivers safety concerns are paid off’ and that isn’t necessarily true.

But don't forget that SWR Drivers under SWT sacrificed a small amount of their pay increases over a number of years as part of getting them to a 35-hour (average) four day week. Whereas the Guards opted time and again for the money hence still being on a 42-hour (average) five day week.