SWR Strike Action: Strikes every day in December except 1st, 12th, 25th & 26th

[Bridger]

Doesn't Clapham junction use platform staff for dispatch so a guarded train or DOO train uses the same peocedure.

Only during peak.

 

[WA_Driver]

There are some drivers working free days during the dispute, but certainly at my depot it's been only 1 person so far, there is definetly a number of people who would normally work their guaranteed freed days who have declined to make themselves available. I'll take your word for driver reps working a FD during rmt strike days, and that would certainly be disappointing. However, a lot of drivers do think that the current dispute does not concern them at the moment a s technjcalky the drivers grade represented by aslef is not in dispute , while there are also a few not working rostered duties on strike days.

I love your optimism that any substantive talks have come to a deal already, if the rumour I heard is true (and I'll accept it's a messroom rumour) is that the company have an very long list of items that they want to talk about. I'd still be surprised if a deal is reached anytime soon.

It’s not optimism. I been at SWT/SWR long enough to know what our company council & EC are like

 

[dctraindriver]

SWR have already conceded that there will be a second person on every train. The time saved from having driver close the doors is 15 to 20 seconds per stop. When you add up the number of stops made on the suburban routes every day that is a lot of time saved. Thats the benefit that SWR are not prepared to give up.

No way, if I’m doing the doors which I don’t want to do I won’t be rushing. I don’t want to trap and drag anyone.

 

[DennisM]

No way, if I’m doing the doors which I don’t want to do I won’t be rushing. I don’t want to trap and drag anyone.

I remember reading on another thread that the RSSB recommended something like an 8 seconds for the ‘Train safety check’ and I believe that was for a shorter train.
I think a far better way to go about improving journey times would be to sort out the electrification capacity so trains can accelerate to their full capabilities, combine that with the planned ABDO and the time savings would far outweigh what they’re likely to achieve with this.

 

[infobleep]

The other day SWR said over 50% of services were running. With today being a Sunday, this must surely be higher than that. Does anyone know what the figure might be for today? Is there a Web Site where one can easily work this out for themsleves?

I think the “GA deal” is about the trains still coming into service, it is described here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...th-greater-anglia.150510/page-12#post-3554696

Well it sounds to me like the SWR deal is the same as GA. If it is not perhaps someone can explain where it differs (obviously routes and rolling stock type will differ).

On a separate note, I notice the 17:00 Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour had a train fault outside Wimbledon and was terminated there 34 minutes late. It wasn't due to stop there.

Looking at National Rail Enquiries, no other fast train made an additional stop to pick up the passengers, so they had to get a delayed slow train to Woking. Anyone heading sourh would then have to take the 19:02. So just the 90 minute delay.

On another train, the 17:30 from Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour, they stopped additionally at Milford and Witly but not Farncombe. I've never noticed them only add only two of those three stops before, due sisruprion. I guess they felt passengers for Farncombe could get out at Godalming and walk back.

 

[Kite159]

Looking at National Rail Enquiries, no other fast train made an additional stop to pick up the passengers, so they had to get a delayed slow train to Woking. Anyone heading sourh would then have to take the 19:02. So just the 90 minute delay.

90 minute delay wasn't as bad as a 120 minute delay for me, the 17:15 Waterloo - Exeter was started from Salisbury and they refused to put an additional call at Grateley on the 18:15 Waterloo - Salisbury. 19:15 it was to take me home.

 

[infobleep]

90 minute delay wasn't as bad as a 120 minute delay for me, the 17:15 Waterloo - Exeter was started from Salisbury and they refused to put an additional call at Grateley on the 18:15 Waterloo - Salisbury. 19:15 it was to take me home.

I saw that one as well. Yet earlier in the day they added the stop of Grateley. Doesn't always make sense.

 

[infobleep]

The guard has just apologies for the delay today and overcrowding.

I'm on the 7:37 fast from Guildford to Waterloo today. What I hadn't noticed until the guard commented just now, was that this train only has 8 carriages. Wonder why they could find another four to join it?

Has anyone else come across any other 8 carriage trains?

Checking Journey Check I see 18 are listed but this one isn't part of that list.

 

[vikingdriver]

The guard has just apologies for the delay today and overcrowding.

I'm on the 7:37 fast from Guildford to Waterloo today. What I hadn't noticed until the guard commented just now, was that this train only has 8 carriages. Wonder why they could find another four to join it?

Has anyone else come across any other 8 carriage trains?

Checking Journey Check I see 18 are listed but this one isn't part of that list.

The 442s have been removed from service, I suspect it is the cause of your short formation.

 

[pompeyfan]

The 442s have been removed from service, I suspect it is the cause of your short formation.

442s were never running during strike timetables.

 

[vikingdriver]

442s were never running during strike timetables.

Apologies, had just finished reading that thread then saw this!

 

[infobleep]

The 442s have been removed from service, I suspect it is the cause of your short formation.

There are fewer trains running so 442s shouldn't be needed.

I've since noticed my train got stuck outside of Woking as a later train was pathed ahead of us. Had we had the full number of coaches, maybe this wouldn't have happened.

We were 10 minutes late into Waterloo. National Rail Enquiries live departure board is putting this down to my train making extra stops due to a cancelled train. Not sure which train was cancelled. Certainly none north of Guildford and my train was only 2 minutes late departing Guildford. It lost 3 minutes at Worpolesdon.

 

[theironroad]

It’s not optimism. I been at SWT/SWR long enough to know what our company council & EC are like

Obviously you must be right then.

 

[HowardGWR]

No way, if I’m doing the doors which I don’t want to do I won’t be rushing. I don’t want to trap and drag anyone.

To my idea, to wait about unnecessarily 'just to make sure' could well be less safe than simply closing as soon as it appears safe to do so. One would stand more chance of someone suddenly rushing in or rushing out with a delay. 'Just do the job' and be decisive would seem safer to me in all one's actions, but that's just me, I admit.

 

[Kite159]

I saw that one as well. Yet earlier in the day they added the stop of Grateley. Doesn't always make sense.

They added Overton to a London bound service after the inbound for the 17:15 was cancelled.

It would make sense if there was any connections at Salisbury but the next GWR services were 15+ minutes.

 

[pompeyfan]

To my idea, to wait about unnecessarily 'just to make sure' could well be less safe than simply closing as soon as it appears safe to do so. One would stand more chance of someone suddenly rushing in or rushing out with a delay. 'Just do the job' and be decisive would seem safer to me in all one's actions, but that's just me, I admit.

I believe the person you quoted is on about how they conduct the train safety check. RSSB recently recommended 2 seconds per coach. Once the doors are secure there’s no much chance of someone then putting them self in a position of danger.

 

[DennisM]

I believe the person you quoted is on about how they conduct the train safety check. RSSB recently recommended 2 seconds per coach. Once the doors are secure there’s no much chance of someone then putting them self in a position of danger.

So drivers of new 701 10 car units should be spending 20 seconds checking It’s safe for the train to depart after the train doors are fully closed. Can anyone explain to me where the time saving is there?

 

[theironroad]

So drivers of new 701 10 car units should be spending 20 seconds checking It’s safe for the train to depart after the train doors are fully closed. Can anyone explain to me where the time saving is there?

I cant see how there is any time saving by a driver closing doors and having to check 10-12 images thoroughly to ensure the train safety check is done correctly. I guess they hope that a few seconds saved by driver opening will compensate.

It's about cost cutting, plain and simple.

 

[jc1]

This is the part I don't understand. Where is the cost saving for the company if there is still a guard on board earning the same salary and a driver operating the doors on a probably substantially higher salary than they are now. Presumably aslef will demand a hefty pay rise for their members

 

[vikingdriver]

This is the part I don't understand. Where is the cost saving for the company if there is still a guard on board earning the same salary and a driver operating the doors on a probably substantially higher salary than they are now. Presumably aslef will demand a hefty pay rise for their members

They are playing a long game, I suspect they will again look at DOO.

 

[jc1]

But the franchise is up in 5 years and they are unlikely to renew so why go through all the hassle of trying to bring in DOO ?

 

[theironroad]

Id agree that doo is the long term plan (think what happened on London Overground) .

Thing is, right now , I'm not sure there's going to be any long term for swr as it's currently set up.

 

[jc1]

So what is the gain for SWR if they're not going to be in for the long haul?

 

[387star]

Are the RMT still in dispute with Southern? Last I heard they were seeking union recognition for the OBS Grade and open to talk about the role

The last Southern strike was march 2018

 

[vikingdriver]

So what is the gain for SWR if they're not going to be in for the long haul?

In this murky world who knows what is happening behind the scenes. This relentless pursuit must be for a reason!

 

[hwl]

But the franchise is up in 5 years and they are unlikely to renew so why go through all the hassle of trying to bring in DOO ?

15 seconds every stop adds upto about 30 hours a day saved, with a big impact on rolling stock requirements too (may be 4-5 10 cars trains so £70m less capex so circa 8m in reduced leasing costs per annum)

 

[DennisM]

15 seconds every stop adds upto about 30 hours a day saved, with a big impact on rolling stock requirements too (may be 4-5 10 cars trains so £70m less capex so circa 8m in reduced leasing costs per annum)

Small change compared to what the drivers pay rise to accept DOO will cost annually, anyone know how many drivers SWR employs?

 

[Ethano92]

So drivers of new 701 10 car units should be spending 20 seconds checking It’s safe for the train to depart after the train doors are fully closed. Can anyone explain to me where the time saving is there?

Can anyone seriously tell me how many times they've been on a 12 coach Thameslink train that sat for 24 seconds after the doors closed at each stop? Or how many Southeastern or c2c trains sat for 16 seconds after the doors closed. On the ELL trains certainly don't wait 10 seconds after doors closing when the next train is so close to them. I'd suggest all of those examples are nearer to <10 seconds maximum, usually around <5. I rode an 8 car Thameslink train 16 stops just a few hours ago and at quiet MML inner stations, we were there less than 30 seconds stop to start (rounded to 30 on RTT). Why read into the 'drivers have a hard time seeing, they need to check 2 seconds per coach etc' when the real life examples don't operate like that in the slightest, the Victoria lines 36tph would be a shambles if trains waited 16 seconds each time.

I wouldn't be surprised if dwell times increased intially with drivers getting used to the new system but it won't stay that way, rather than say it's cost cutting when SWR have 5 years left of their franchise.

 

[alastair]

Small change compared to what the drivers pay rise to accept DOO will cost annually, anyone know how many drivers SWR employs?

I am sure I have read in a previous thread on here a while ago that SWT drivers already had DOO in their contracts, and had done since 1997? If that is correct would that not have transferred to SWR when the franchise changed?

 

[theironroad]

Can anyone seriously tell me how many times they've been on a 12 coach Thameslink train that sat for 24 seconds after the doors closed at each stop? Or how many Southeastern or c2c trains sat for 16 seconds after the doors closed. On the ELL trains certainly don't wait 10 seconds after doors closing when the next train is so close to them. I'd suggest all of those examples are nearer to <10 seconds maximum, usually around <5. I rode an 8 car Thameslink train 16 stops just a few hours ago and at quiet MML inner stations, we were there less than 30 seconds stop to start (rounded to 30 on RTT). Why read into the 'drivers have a hard time seeing, they need to check 2 seconds per coach etc' when the real life examples don't operate like that in the slightest, the Victoria lines 36tph would be a shambles if trains waited 16 seconds each time.

I wouldn't be surprised if dwell times increased intially with drivers getting used to the new system but it won't stay that way, rather than say it's cost cutting when SWR have 5 years left of their franchise.

I cant remember off hand if it's the Orr or raib, but you might want to check their recent recommendations. These will probably be incorporated into operating procedure going forward.