SWR Strike Action: Strikes every day in December except 1st, 12th, 25th & 26th

[pompeyfan]

Isn’t the 35 hour driving week the norm across the industry? The guards at 42 is quite high as far as I’m aware

 

[theironroad]

Isn’t the 35 hour driving week the norm across the industry? The guards at 42 is quite high as far as I’m aware

The swr is a true 35 hr week,nothing extra required and Sundays etc part of that 35hr,whereas many companies have a M to Sa 35 hr with Sundays extra.

Aslef charter is for a 32 hour 4 day week with Sundays as part of that .

 

[infobleep]

There aren't any Guildford to Ascot services running today. To be fair their usually isn't any Monday to Saturday, it's just that last week they highlighted the fact trains were not running between Guildford and Ascot. I doubt they are highlighting it this week.

The point I'm making is that hopefully if they get more regular strikes, they will feel it worthwhile updating the strike advice to cover Guildford to Farnham instead, which today is running but last week from Tuesday to Saturday wasn't and there wasn't any advice as to what one should do, as they gave advice for a route that only runs on Sundays now.

 

[infobleep]

Thanks. How interesting.

I was just looking up services from yesterday from Southampton, on Real Time Trains and that showed trains to and from Weymouth as well as those to and from Poole. The Weymouth ones didn't have any route times of course as they didn't run.

I did not have show cancelled services switched on. So were the Weymouth trains showing on National Rail Enquiries yesterday? I have no way of checking.

Correction. For some reason I as looking up todays services and not Saturdays. If must be the thr way the system works that one train had route time info and the other didn't.

So that wasn't the journey pla ner errors that couldn't be fixed.

 

[kristiang85]

Is there any proof that these strikes are having any effect on the RMT's cause?

As far as I can tell, the financial damage to SWR from the strikes alone must be quite light - weekday peak time trains are mostly already paid for by season tickets, they save some money on wages, and if rumours are correct the government helps them out in strike action (though I have no idea if this is true?). Reputation wise, they don't have much left with the public after their non-strike day performances. In any case, they are the only choice for many to use on their routes, so long-term I doubt the strikes make much dent in passenger use.

On the other hand, the public perception of the RMT keeps going down, and the members striking are getting pretty hefty losses from their pay given how many day's they've walked out. And there doesn't seem to be any progress in the dispute.

The losers seem to be overwhelmingly the travelling public and the guards, not the company.

There must be a point where it is realised another way must be found, rather than more rounds of futile strikes?

 

[Kite159]

Is there any proof that these strikes are having any effect on the RMT's cause?

As far as I can tell, the financial damage to SWR from the strikes alone must be quite light - weekday peak time trains are mostly already paid for by season tickets, they save some money on wages, and if rumours are correct the government helps them out in strike action (though I have no idea if this is true?). Reputation wise, they don't have much left with the public after their non-strike day performances. In any case, they are the only choice for many to use on their routes, so long-term I doubt the strikes make much dent in passenger use.

On the other hand, the public perception of the RMT keeps going down, and the members striking are getting pretty hefty losses from their pay given how many day's they've walked out. And there doesn't seem to be any progress in the dispute.

The losers seem to be overwhelmingly the travelling public and the guards, not the company.

There must be a point where it is realised another way must be found, rather than more rounds of futile strikes?

I know it's only leisure, but I know a few folk at work who when heading to London at weekends for shopping/events now drive most of the way to the outer zones for LU/Overground services rather than using SWR, solely because they got fed up with overcrowded hourly services when there was a strike on.

To the general public, the strike boils down to who gets to operate the doors on the new stock.

 

[infobleep]

Is there any proof that these strikes are having any effect on the RMT's cause?

As far as I can tell, the financial damage to SWR from the strikes alone must be quite light - weekday peak time trains are mostly already paid for by season tickets, they save some money on wages, and if rumours are correct the government helps them out in strike action (though I have no idea if this is true?). Reputation wise, they don't have much left with the public after their non-strike day performances. In any case, they are the only choice for many to use on their routes, so long-term I doubt the strikes make much dent in passenger use.

On the other hand, the public perception of the RMT keeps going down, and the members striking are getting pretty hefty losses from their pay given how many day's they've walked out. And there doesn't seem to be any progress in the dispute.

The losers seem to be overwhelmingly the travelling public and the guards, not the company.

There must be a point where it is realised another way must be found, rather than more rounds of futile strikes?

The problem is, what other route is that? Maybe if I was involved I'd think of one but I can't see it. Obviously I coming form the point of view of guards being fully safety trained and remaining on trains.

As for the company, it's hard to know what the general public think as on Twitter your often going to get people moaning at them. It will be a Network Rail issue, as it was this morning and they blame SWR.

Just as people don't understand the RMT dispute, they don't understand an infrastructure fault isn't due to SWR.

I notice SWR are responding to short train formation comments today. Let's hope they respond to my recent polite question relating to last week.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I read in a newspaper, that further strikes may be looming re pensions dispute.

 

[infobleep]

Any big sporting fixtures due? There is the cricket World Cup final, depending on who is in it

Ruby is probably a better bet as it's on their network.

 

[Goldfish62]

I read in a newspaper, that further strikes may be looming re pensions dispute.

This is Cash's national strike that he's long dreamed about having.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

https://twitter.com/Tarahwelsh/status/1140883518966419457?s=09

The above link takes you to a video on Twitter, where on Tuesday, a BBC reporter, Tarah Welsh filmed the queue outside Surbtion Station.

Given the queue there I wonder if it would have been better to have gone to Kingston Station or would they not have been able to board a train there?

I don't think Berrylands would have been any good though as trains would definitely have been packed.

I don't think agreements were are place to use the buses to Kingston, or they weren't previously, so unless passengers have a travel card, it would have cost them. Still that may have been faster than queuing.

The barriers outside the station seem a bit pointless, given most of the queue has no barriers. It does seem an orderly queue though. Still don't say they we like a good queue in this country!

Yesterday I don't think there was such a queue as this.

I never got a reply about the number of carriages running on the Guildford to Surbtion route. I wonder if they have been instructed not to answer such questions? It was a perfectly reasonable question I thought. They have answered short formation questions in the past. What harm could possibly be done in answering the question?

There was a recent discussion on here about keeping passengers informed and being as transparent as possible, within reason, as passengers are more understanding.

Short trains were provided between Guildford and Surbiton to manage/restrict the numbers of passengers arriving via terminating trains. You outline this reason above my mentioning the queue at Surbiton station.

By running a 4 car train you restrict passenger numbers being tipped out onto an already overcrowded Surbiton station, it’s better to leave people behind and not get them to Surbiton rather than risk safety issues at Surbiton with terminating a full length train in platform 1 onto a crowded platform with fast trains going through on the adjacent line.

 

[Andyh82]

Any big sporting fixtures due? Their is the cricket World Cup final, depending k. Who is in it

Ruby is probably a better bet as its on their network.

Wimbledon starts next week

 

[Darandio]

Wimbledon starts next week

Too late for them to affect next week though. If they announce it tomorrow they could hamper part of the final week.

 

[infobleep]

Short trains were provided between Guildford and Surbiton to manage/restrict the numbers of passengers arriving via terminating trains. You outline this reason above my mentioning the queue at Surbiton station.

By running a 4 car train you restrict passenger numbers being tipped out onto an already overcrowded Surbiton station, it’s better to leave people behind and not get them to Surbiton rather than risk safety issues at Surbiton with terminating a full length train in platform 1 onto a crowded platform with fast trains going through on the adjacent line.

Thank you for replying and answering my question.

I got a reply on Twitter today but as I shortened my question, to try and get a response, as it was my third time of asking, they didn't answer it correctly. They said not all guards were trained on the all stock. That wasn't an issue at Guildford, as there would spare 455s. I did reply back but didn't get another response I don't think.

I hadn't considered the queues at Surbtion. However these were only in the morning. Not the rest of the day and certainly not from 9:07 onwards, when one train seemed to be put into service.

 

[bb21]

New dates announced today. Sensible discussions please.

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-announces-a-further-four-days16819/

RMT ANNOUNCES A FURTHER FOUR DAYS OF STRIKE ACTION ON SWR

RMT announces a further four days of strike action on SWR over guard guarantee

Rail union RMT has confirmed that a further four days of strike action will take place on South Western Railway as the company continues to drag its heels and delays talks over guaranteeing a guard on the train. RMT has accused the company of deliberately trying to mug off staff, who have stood firm in the fight for rail safety, by making a mockery of the talks process.

The company’s unremitting failure to give assurances that their new operational model won't move to Driver Controlled Operation – with the role of the guard butchered completely – means the union has been left with no alternative but to call further industrial action.

The company made it quite clear in talks with the union earlier this year that the protection of their profit margins is a determining factor in their future operational model proving that this is all about putting profits before passenger safety.

As a result of SWR’s failure to move forwards on an agreement RMT members will take action as follows:

We instruct our SWR Guard, Commercial Guard and Driver members to not to book on for duty between: -

• 0001 hours Friday 30th August 2019 and 23.59 hours Monday 2nd September 2019

Back in February – after a long and hard fight by RMT members – the train company pledged that “each passenger train shall operate with a guard with safety critical competencies.” These specific competencies were to be agreed by RMT and SWR. Since then it has been stalemate with the company rowing back on their public pledges.

......

 

[theironroad]

Friday to Monday industrial action 30/31 August and 1/2 September.

This is the weekend AFTER the bank holiday weekend, but does cover the Bournemouth Air Festival.

 

[Adsy125]

This is the weekend AFTER the bank holiday weekend, but does cover the Bournemouth Air Festival.

Might as well not bother leaving my house that weekend then!

 

[Goldfish62]

Friday to Monday industrial action 30/31 August and 1/2 September.

This is the weekend AFTER the bank holiday weekend, but does cover the Bournemouth Air Festival.

Same weekend as last year, I think? May as well put it in the diary for next year as well!

 

[Carlisle]

Will the RMT be honest enough to explain publicly the Merseyrail & SWR strikes are now purely concerned with future bargaining power, or will they just continue the false claims about no staff on trains or alternatively concentrate entirely on rehashing the dispatch argument .

 

[43096]

Will the RMT be honest enough to explain publicly the Merseyrail & SWR strikes are now purely concerned with future bargaining power, or will they just continue the false claims about no staff on trains or alternatively concentrate entirely on rehashing the dispatch argument .

RMT, honest? No chance. You only have to look at the antagonistic nature of their public pronouncements to see that. Immature and pathetic.

There’s very little chance of a resolution with RMT on one side and SWR’s abysmal management on the other.

 

[Domeyhead]

On the line between SOuthampton and Portsmouth SWR and SOuthern trains work side by side and many passengers for stations between Soton and Cosham use either and get a chance to compare the impact of working methods. I have noticed that on the SOuthern Electrostars the station stop is prompt, the doors (usually) are unlocked with tube style efficiency and passengers (dis)embark quickly and safely. On SWR Desiros there is a pause of several seconds while some unknown process is enacted before the doors are finally released. Whatever is occurring does NOT make the passengers any safer - the passengers are more at risk of losing their balance as those behind them sometimes assume those in front have not pressed the door open button! THe reason I mention this on this thread is the constant fallacy of the RMT using "passenger safety" as an apparent justification. No it isn't. Passengers are at least as safe on Southern provided on board staff are present. Strike if you must but don't use me and my fellow travellers as a bargaining tool. WHat passengers want is a reassuring presence of on board staff, so no problem with that - but "safety". It's a red herring, so leave it out. We know why it is used as justification but it's a fallacy. This is not a safety issue, it's about jobs. We aren't stupid.

 

[Bromley boy]

Will the RMT be honest enough to explain publicly the Merseyrail & SWR strikes are now purely concerned with future bargaining power, or will they just continue the false claims about no staff on trains or alternatively concentrate entirely on rehashing the dispatch argument .

Whatever the whys and wherefores of the underlying argument, if SWR management had reached agreement with the RMT, but is now dragging its feet, you can’t blame the union for reacting.

If SWR had been negotiating in good faith the strikes would now be at an end.

 

[Bromley boy]

I have noticed that on the SOuthern Electrostars the station stop is prompt, the doors (usually) are unlocked with tube style efficiency and passengers (dis)embark quickly and safely. On SWR Desiros there is a pause of several seconds while some unknown process is enacted before the doors are finally released.

Most likely because the guard is checking that the train has been correctly accommodated in the platform. This is unnecessary on tube trains which are of a uniform length and are fitted with correct side door enable.

In DOO land exactly the same process is required. It takes a few seconds, and indeed any driver releasing the doors “with tube style efficiency” immediately upon stopping would almost certainly be in breach of their TOC’s driving policy.

Individual journeys are “downloaded” at random and management will be looking for a pause of several seconds between the wheels coming to a stop and the doors being released.

 

[Domeyhead]

Most likely because the guard is checking that the train has been correctly accommodated in the platform. This is unnecessary on tube trains which are of a uniform length and are fitted with correct side door enable.

In DOO land exactly the same process is required. It takes a few seconds, and indeed any driver releasing the doors “with tube style efficiency” immediately upon stopping would almost certainly be in breach of their TOC’s driving policy.

Individual journeys are “downloaded” at random and management will be looking for a pause of several seconds between the wheels coming to a stop and the doors being released.

Fair enough and you are right - I was using "tube style efficiency" as a metaphor not a literal description so I apologise and I don't mean for a second that Southern Drivers are being lax - far from it. But the timbre of my post remains as it was so we shouldn't get drawn into discussions on the minutiae of rule book adherence - drivers and train crew of both companies are equslly diligent according to their agreed practices - it is the comparison of the outcome I am drawing attention to.

 

[Wombat]

Whatever the whys and wherefores of the underlying argument, if SWR management had reached agreement with the RMT, but is now dragging its feet, you can’t blame the union for reacting.

Seems a bit weird, though. I'd have expected strike action to occur if a TOC announces a policy that the staff don't like, not because the policy hasn't been announced yet. I don't really know what's achieved here beyond reinforcing the public perception that the rail industry enjoys the odd long weekend. Then again, bemusement at the antics of the RMT isn't a novel experience.

 

[Wychwood93]

Fair enough and you are right - I was using "tube style efficiency" as a metaphor not a literal description so I apologise and I don't mean for a second that Southern Drivers are being lax - far from it. But the timbre of my post remains as it was so we shouldn't get drawn into discussions on the minutiae of rule book adherence - drivers and train crew of both companies are equslly diligent according to their agreed practices - it is the comparison of the outcome I am drawing attention to.

Recent experiences on GWR, 80x stock, would indicate door release around 5 seconds - as far as I am aware they are driver release? Unlikely to be the infrequently viewed guard (generic term). Driver stops at a mark, makes sure all well and 'bang' - doors released.

 

[Goldfish62]

Recent experiences on GWR, 80x stock, would indicate door release around 5 seconds - as far as I am aware they are driver release? Unlikely to be the infrequently viewed guard (generic term). Driver stops at a mark, makes sure all well and 'bang' - doors released.

Yes, they moved to driver release with the introduction of the 800s (although this was already in place on the turbos and 180s). Apparently the 800s have quite a complex ASDO system which requires the driver to confirm certain things at some stations before releasing the doors. I have also experienced instantaneous release on the 800s. What driver control of opening does do is to allow the guard to continue revenue duties until they're ready to close the doors.

 

[Wychwood93]

Yes, they moved to driver release with the introduction of the 800s (although this was already in place on the turbos and 180s). Apparently the 800s have quite a complex ASDO system which requires the driver to confirm certain things at some stations before releasing the doors. I have also experienced instantaneous release on the 800s. What driver control of opening does do is to allow the guard to continue revenue duties until they're ready to close the doors.

Indeed and thank you. I was just going to go a tad off-thread but have pulled back!

 

[infobleep]

On the line between SOuthampton and Portsmouth SWR and SOuthern trains work side by side and many passengers for stations between Soton and Cosham use either and get a chance to compare the impact of working methods. I have noticed that on the SOuthern Electrostars the station stop is prompt, the doors (usually) are unlocked with tube style efficiency and passengers (dis)embark quickly and safely. On SWR Desiros there is a pause of several seconds while some unknown process is enacted before the doors are finally released. Whatever is occurring does NOT make the passengers any safer - the passengers are more at risk of losing their balance as those behind them sometimes assume those in front have not pressed the door open button! THe reason I mention this on this thread is the constant fallacy of the RMT using "passenger safety" as an apparent justification. No it isn't. Passengers are at least as safe on Southern provided on board staff are present. Strike if you must but don't use me and my fellow travellers as a bargaining tool. WHat passengers want is a reassuring presence of on board staff, so no problem with that - but "safety". It's a red herring, so leave it out. We know why it is used as justification but it's a fallacy. This is not a safety issue, it's about jobs. We aren't stupid.

What I find is that people are standing by the door and not pressing the door release button open them. They are expecting a tube style of operation where the doors open automatically. This must surely delay services as it impeedsswift entries and exits.

What do you propose to deal with that if time is so critical?

 

[infobleep]

On the line between SOuthampton and Portsmouth SWR and SOuthern trains work side by side and many passengers for stations between Soton and Cosham use either and get a chance to compare the impact of working methods. I have noticed that on the SOuthern Electrostars the station stop is prompt, the doors (usually) are unlocked with tube style efficiency and passengers (dis)embark quickly and safely. On SWR Desiros there is a pause of several seconds while some unknown process is enacted before the doors are finally released. Whatever is occurring does NOT make the passengers any safer - the passengers are more at risk of losing their balance as those behind them sometimes assume those in front have not pressed the door open button! THe reason I mention this on this thread is the constant fallacy of the RMT using "passenger safety" as an apparent justification. No it isn't. Passengers are at least as safe on Southern provided on board staff are present. Strike if you must but don't use me and my fellow travellers as a bargaining tool. WHat passengers want is a reassuring presence of on board staff, so no problem with that - but "safety". It's a red herring, so leave it out. We know why it is used as justification but it's a fallacy. This is not a safety issue, it's about jobs. We aren't stupid.

What I find is that people are standing by the door and not pressing the door release button to open them. They are expecting a tube style of operation where the doors open automatically. This must surely delay services, as it impedes swift entries and exits. The other day I was standing behind someone and had to press the button because they were just standing there with their suitcase. Other times people have pressed it but there has been a delay.

What do you propose to deal with that if time is so critical?