SWT 10 car suburban trains

[MontyP]

I have noticed that the departure boards at Waterloo for 10 car inner suburban trains always say that passengers at certain stations (Clapham Junction, Earlesfield amongst others) should travel in the front 8 carriages due to short platforms. But all the doors (including in the rear 2 carriages) seem to open at all stations. Why is this?

 

[Kieran1990]

Happens when a 9 car combo (444 + 450) operates down the Pompey Direct at Guildford... says front 8coaches for Guildford... but all 9 cars open and there’s plenty of room left on the platform.. must be a glitch with the system

 

[Starmill]

Is it because although the booked platform is long enough, not every platform is long enough? That seems to be a common cause of that.

 

[GW43125]

I believe that it's because there are two types of 10-car formation that can call at Clapham Jn.
A 10-car suburban formation is in the region of 200m, and can fit on the platforms.

However, a 10-car 444 has a length around 230-235m, only 8 cars of this can fit at Clapham.

The system only understands how many carriages, not the length of the carriages, so upon being told 10 carriages plays it safe and assumes it's a 444.

The same applies to the Guildford example, a 9-car 444&450 can fit comfortably, but a 9-car 444 can't.

 

[Robert Carroll]

It seems that lots of people just ignore the announcements anyway. I think Clapham Junction is now the only one mentioned in the Waterloo announcements. Truth is that 455 and 456 units have no SDO and all station platforms served by 10-car formations can take the whole train.

 

[MontyP]

I believe that it's because there are two types of 10-car formation that can call at Clapham Jn.
A 10-car suburban formation is in the region of 200m, and can fit on the platforms.

However, a 10-car 444 has a length around 230-235m, only 8 cars of this can fit at Clapham.

The system only understands how many carriages, not the length of the carriages, so upon being told 10 carriages plays it safe and assumes it's a 444.

The same applies to the Guildford example, a 9-car 444&450 can fit comfortably, but a 9-car 444 can't.

That makes sense at Clapham Junction, but at all the other suburban stations (Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, New Malden) there are no 444/450 services, just 455/456 which are always 200m if 10 cars.

 

[GW43125]

That makes sense at Clapham Junction, but at all the other suburban stations (Earlsfield, Wimbledon, Raynes Park, New Malden) there are no 444/450 services, just 455/456 which are always 200m if 10 cars.

Not come across that one before, if it is the case then who knows?
**EDIT** according to the CWN, there are some Woking stoppers in the peak that are 12/450, that may be related (there are some anomalies where 8/455 can fit in a platform that 8/450 can't)

It may just be the case that because there were no main sub 10-car workings until a year ago, the system is set up for 444s.

 

[Helvellyn]

**EDIT** according to the CWN, there are some Woking stoppers in the peak that are 12/450, that may be related (there are some anomalies where 8/455 can fit in a platform that 8/450 can't)

Have been for years. However, these are additional trains outside the times of the normal two per hour trains on the clockface timetable and they only stop all stations Surbiton-Woking inclusive. The xx:20/xx:50 from Waterloo and xx:32/xx:52 from Woking are still 455/456 operated and usually include the Wimbledon/Esher/Clapham/Vauxhall stops.

 

[TEW]

Is it because although the booked platform is long enough, not every platform is long enough? That seems to be a common cause of that.

The SWR CIS system is more clever than that, it knows the length of all platforms at stations and the booked platform for a service. It can announce the wrong length if a platform is bi directional, and a different number of coaches are opened in each direction.

 

[TEW]

Happens when a 9 car combo (444 + 450) operates down the Pompey Direct at Guildford... says front 8coaches for Guildford... but all 9 cars open and there’s plenty of room left on the platform.. must be a glitch with the system

That would be because platform 4 at Guildford would only open the front 8 coaches if being used in the up direction.

 

[pompeyfan]

That would be because platform 4 at Guildford would only open the front 8 coaches if being used in the up direction.

Same happens at Eastleigh with a train booked into platform 3 on a 10.444/12.450

 

[BestWestern]

The same applies to the Guildford example, a 9-car 444&450 can fit comfortably, but a 9-car 444 can't.

Thankfully, a nine car 444 is a rather rare occurrence!

 

[GW43125]

Thankfully, a nine car 444 is a rather rare occurrence!

Oi you pedant, that’s my job :P
Knowing some of the maintenance guys, I wouldn’t put it past them if I’m honest...

 

[NSE]

Interesting as I was going to ask the same question. My morning train does it at Strawberry Hill. It’s ten coaches 455/455/456 and says front nine only for Strawberry Hill. I sit in the tenth every morning and it always opens. The CIS doesnt say it for the 707 that I occasionally get in the evenings though. Mind you that might be due to it using the platform in the other direction.

 

[TEW]

Interesting as I was going to ask the same question. My morning train does it at Strawberry Hill. It’s ten coaches 455/455/456 and says front nine only for Strawberry Hill. I sit in the tenth every morning and it always opens. The CIS doesnt say it for the 707 that I occasionally get in the evenings though. Mind you that might be due to it using the platform in the other direction.

Both platforms take 10 coaches in normal operation. However if platform 2 is used in the 'wrong' direction compared to usual it would be the front 9 coaches of a 10 car 458. A 10-car 455/456 formation wouldn't be permitted to do that move as it wouldn't fit in the platform.