SWT Potential Olympic Strike

[Helvellyn]

Maybe I am being a bit dim, but if they are being asked to work more hours during the games, then why shouldn't they be paid extra?
I do agree that the olympic bonuses that have been talked about are a bit of a joke in some of the cases (where the staff will just be doing their normal job anyway), but in cases where staff will have to work longer hours, then it is only fair that they get paid for that extra time.

I would be getting paid extra! If my rostered diagram is amended, then I get paid the extra I work. This is no different to during engineering works where I can find my original diagram amended, and if it's extended - which my contract allows - then I get paid that extra. If it gets shorterned then I still get paid my original hours! Win-win from my point of view.

With the Olympic I understand some last trains have been retimed later, so those diagrams will be amended during the Olympics. There might be some special turns for extra services, but they'll either be picked up by Guys on a spare turn, or I guess the company will be looking for volunteers to work a free day.

I can't see it's any different to Royal Ascot next week, where extra trains will be run, or the hampton Court Flower Show in two weeks where extra trains are also run. As some other posteres have said, I thought part of the 4.75% pay deal we got, back-dated to last October, included any payment for the Olympics. Nobody has yet been able to tell me how the company has gone and breached the pay deal, or our working conditions, during the Olympics, so I can't quite work out what this dispute is supposed to be about.

 

[RobShipway]

I would be getting paid extra! If my rostered diagram is amended, then I get paid the extra I work. This is no different to during engineering works where I can find my original diagram amended, and if it's extended - which my contract allows - then I get paid that extra. If it gets shorterned then I still get paid my original hours! Win-win from my point of view.

With the Olympic I understand some last trains have been retimed later, so those diagrams will be amended during the Olympics. There might be some special turns for extra services, but they'll either be picked up by Guys on a spare turn, or I guess the company will be looking for volunteers to work a free day.

I can't see it's any different to Royal Ascot next week, where extra trains will be run, or the hampton Court Flower Show in two weeks where extra trains are also run. As some other posteres have said, I thought part of the 4.75% pay deal we got, back-dated to last October, included any payment for the Olympics. Nobody has yet been able to tell me how the company has gone and breached the pay deal, or our working conditions, during the Olympics, so I can't quite work out what this dispute is supposed to be about.

So like as if it was Royal Ascot next week, if you are asked to work extra hours to what you are diagrammed to do, then you get paid overtime in for working those hours? Which if that is teh case then, it is what happens in any other business outside the rail industry or you get extra time off in lieu or if it is around bank holdays....both!

 

[Greenback]

As I understand it, the 'bonuses' that are being paid to transport workers during the Olympic period are actually compensation for the short term alteration of some T&C's, rather than an additional monetary reward for doing the normal job.

I don't know anythign much about the arrangements SWT have made, but if, as mentioned, the earlier pay rise included compensation for Olympic arrangements, then the RMT should abide by the agreements it made.

 

[Tomnick]

I do agree that the olympic bonuses that have been talked about are a bit of a joke in some of the cases (where the staff will just be doing their normal job anyway)

I see exactly where you're coming from. Taking the example of Signalmen though (whose jobs are graded according to various factors to determine their pay level - the intensity of the service plays a big part in this process), who are probably going to be heavily affected by additional services (if there are that many after all!) in some areas. Isn't it right that they should receive some sort of bonus for the sustained increased workload, as they'd potentially be regraded (and thus go onto a higher rate of pay) if that same higher workload continued on a permanent basis?

 

[reapz]

From the RMT website:

Bob Crow strikes again!

http://www.rmt.org.uk/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=159940&int1stParentNodeID=89732


Now I'm sorry but extra late night trains on SWT have been common knowledge for MONTHS and also the same for all operators and so for the RMT to claim otherwise is frankly ridiculous. Just because HEX agreed stupidly to pay extra, Bob Crow is now trying to hold the other companies to ransom. The RMT and UNITE are out of control now, talk about power going to their heads.
As many are aware I am not SWT's biggest fan but I hope to god they stand firm here and don't cave in to more ridiculous union demands as they are dead right to offer nothing.

Bob crow is a spokes person for the union.
The members decide weather to strike, this is very funny all the people who think bob crow is the devil when in fact he is just the messenger.

 

[Helvellyn]

So like as if it was Royal Ascot next week, if you are asked to work extra hours to what you are diagrammed to do, then you get paid overtime in for working those hours? Which if that is teh case then, it is what happens in any other business outside the rail industry or you get extra time off in lieu or if it is around bank holdays....both!

I'm contracted to work an average of 42 hours a week, over 5 days. But because of how the roster is, some weeks it is more, some weeks less, and some days I get 1 day off and another week I will get 3. But over the full roster it averages out at 2 days and 42 hours a week.

Our roster was agreed last December, and we were told that was going to be in place for 12 months. As far as I'm aware that has not changed. Because the roster is in place I know if I have a running turn or a spare turn. If from a spare turn I get a running turn longer than my hours, then I get paid the extra hours. If from a spare turn I get a running turn shorter than my hours, then I still get paid the longer spare turn hours.

As I said, if a diagram is amended then we get paid the extra hours. If the company wants me to work one of my days off I have to be willing to do so, and they ask. I can't be forced to do anything outside of my contract, and our terms and conditions are well set out.

 

[Sleepy]

evil: Greater Anglia still have not reached an agreement with RMT and rumblings about a ballot doing the rounds, would have thought the last thing Dutch would want is bad publicity during what is a one off event if they are trying to impress Dft for longer term franchises ? OR is it a case of yes we will stand up to the unions !!!

 

[embers25]

Bob crow is a spokes person for the union.
The members decide weather to strike, this is very funny all the people who think bob crow is the devil when in fact he is just the messenger.

Herein lies another issue as in many recent strike ballots whilst there has been more than 50% support for strike action of those that voted, the turnout was so low that it was less than 50% of all members. Bob Crow then calls a strike using phrases like "our members have overwhelmingly voted to strike" when in actual fact they have not. Also given some of the comments from SWT employees on this thread it would seem the RMT were so keen to strike (as always) and show their muscle again that they called a strike ballot without clearly communicating to members exactly why they are striking. Which then makes you wonder exactly how many of the yes votes were actually just cast based on a desire of some members to strike regardless of their seemingly false claims and not on the facts.

 

[Wolfie]

Herein lies another issue as in many recent strike ballots whilst there has been more than 50% support for strike action of those that voted, the turnout was so low that it was less than 50% of all members. Bob Crow then calls a strike using phrases like "our members have overwhelmingly voted to strike" when in actual fact they have not. Also given some of the comments from SWT employees on this thread it would seem the RMT were so keen to strike (as always) and show their muscle again that they called a strike ballot without clearly communicating to members exactly why they are striking. Which then makes you wonder exactly how many of the yes votes were actually just cast based on a desire of some members to strike regardless of their seemingly false claims and not on the facts.

My bold

The gospel according to Boris....

Funny how when HE gets elected on a turnout of 38% and also fails to get a majority of first choices from those who voted that his election is still valid though....

In TU ballots the members have a choice over whether to vote - since when does not exercising that choice equal a NO vote?

 

[embers25]

My bold

The gospel according to Boris....

Funny how when HE gets elected on a turnout of 38% and also fails to get a majority of first choices from those who voted that his election is still valid though....

In TU ballots the members have a choice over whether to vote - since when does not exercising that choice equal a NO vote?

Since when did not voting equal a yes vote either?

 

[bnm]

To stereotype and discount any union leader, whether it be Bob Crowe or anyone else, is as bad as singling out someone because of their racial origin.

Are you serious? There's no way that stereotyping Bob Crow as a typical union leader is anywhere near as bad as racism. What a silly comparison. :roll:

Anyways, Commie Bob does a good enough job playing up to the stereotype.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Herein lies another issue as in many recent strike ballots whilst there has been more than 50% support for strike action of those that voted, the turnout was so low that it was less than 50% of all members. Bob Crow then calls a strike using phrases like "our members have overwhelmingly voted to strike" when in actual fact they have not. Also given some of the comments from SWT employees on this thread it would seem the RMT were so keen to strike (as always) and show their muscle again that they called a strike ballot without clearly communicating to members exactly why they are striking. Which then makes you wonder exactly how many of the yes votes were actually just cast based on a desire of some members to strike regardless of their seemingly false claims and not on the facts.

If you cannot be arsed to vote, tough! thats your call and you have to respect the decisions made by the people who can be bothered, they cannot be classed as Yes OR No because they didn't vote, turnout is irrelevent the results from the people who did vote are all that matters!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are you serious? There's no way that stereotyping Bob Crow as a typical union leader is anywhere near as bad as racism. What a silly comparison. :roll:

Anyways, Commie Bob does a good enough job playing up to the stereotype.

He still only does exactly what he is paid for, he knows he is hated and he uses that to his members advantage, we vote for him and he does what he is paid to do..simples!

 

[Jonny]

My bold

The gospel according to Boris....

Funny how when HE gets elected on a turnout of 38% and also fails to get a majority of first choices from those who voted that his election is still valid though....

In TU ballots the members have a choice over whether to vote - since when does not exercising that choice equal a NO vote?

It isn't the same - a scheduled election (London Mayor) vs a discretionary strike ballot.

 

[HH]

BRITAIN’S BIGGEST rail union hit back today against “Olympic lies” being told by South West Trains after the company reneged on a “business as usual” promise over the games.

RMT is preparingto ballot its members at the company for industrial action after the companyattempted to impose extra workloads, new rosters and a ban on leave despite apromise attached to last year’s pay agreement that the Olympics would mean “minimal”extra work.

The companyhas since admitted that at least 80,000 extra passengers a day are expected topass through Waterloo, has timetabled substantial extra services and laterrunning, has leased extra rolling stock, and has begun turning down requestsfor leave during the games.

RMT generalsecretary Bob Crow said:

“South West Trains made a promise attached to last year’s pay deal thatthere would be minimal change for the workforce during the games and this hasturned out to be completely false.

“We nowknow that every grade at the company faces substantially increased workloadsand the prospect of enforced extra hours and leave requests being turned down,and that means that the company has reneged on last year’s deal.

“The company’slatest bulletin to staff, issued after yesterday’s talks, is a work of fictionthat our negotiating team does not recognise.

“Ratherthan spread these Olympic lies, the company should be sitting down with us tonegotiate a fair deal for SWT staff that recognises the substantial additionalburden they will face, just as other train-operating companies have alreadydone.”

All errors courtesy of RMT.

AFAIK the issue is not about whether extra money will be paid; I'm sure that normal overtime rules will apply. It's about whether there is a "Bonus" on top, and the terms of that bonus. Just like it has been with every other transport 'dispute'.

I'd also note that RMT isn't so much a strong union as it is that they can have a marked political effect if they strike. Most workers will inconvenience only a few people beyond the company they work for - RMT can effect millions.

This is the only reason that rail workers salaries have increased above inflation for the last three years, while the general level of wages is considerably below.

 

[Sleepy]

RMT are balloting GA members for action over Olympic pay : RMT website

 

[dk1]

RMT are balloting GA members for action over Olympic pay : RMT website

This was confirmed by GA conductors yesterday.

 

[455driver]

I don't know anythign much about the arrangements SWT have made, but if, as mentioned, the earlier pay rise included compensation for Olympic arrangements, then the RMT should abide by the agreements it made.

During the paytalks with the RMT and ASLEF, SWT made it clear that the Olympics would have no effect on SWT services and it would be "business as normal" with a "normal service in operation", now we are informed that there are a few extra trains running and other trains are retimed/ extended.

Hardly business as usual!
Well it is actually with management doing what suits them!

 

[87015]

Hardly business as usual!

Yes it is! There are ammendments to the base timetable week in, week out, any TOC worth anything runs extras and strengthens trains all the time - they will I presume now be asking for a bonus on top of overtime / rdw payments available every time an ammended driver diagram is issued?

Will the planning team getting bonuses as they will be doing far more extra work for this than drivers?

 

[455driver]

Will the planning team getting bonuses as they will be doing far more extra work for this than drivers?

The planning team would get a bonus if they didnt send out erroneous (or downright illegal*) diagrams on a regular basis!

* And I have got the grovelling apology letter in my locker to prove it!


This isnt about short term engineering work its about schedules being thrown out the window for a month (if you include the equally important paralympic games) with crews being forced to work overtime, I am as happy as everyone else to "do my bit" but the fact that Management stated "there would be no effect on the services provided by SWT for the duration of the games" has been proved to be a pack of lies, then it all comes down to the principle of it all.

Management lied and the staff are peed off about it!

 

[swj99]

Are you serious? There's no way that stereotyping Bob Crow as a typical union leader is anywhere near as bad as racism. What a silly comparison. :roll:

Anyways, Commie Bob does a good enough job playing up to the stereotype.

As far as I'm concerned, it's as bad as saying a person of a particular ethnic origin plays up to the stereotype. In other words, both are examples of discrimination.

 

[12CSVT]

I don't know anythign much about the arrangements SWT have made, but if, as mentioned, the earlier pay rise included compensation for Olympic arrangements, then the RMT should abide by the agreements it made.

Shouldn't SWT also be required to stick to their agreements ?

 

[Greenback]

Shouldn't SWT also be required to stick to their agreements ?

Yes, they should. I don't know what was agreed, but both sides should abide by whatever it was!

 

[embers25]

This isnt about short term engineering work its about schedules being thrown out the window for a month (if you include the equally important paralympic games)

Last trains running one hour later and a VERY few additional trains is hardly "schedules thrown out of the window for a month" but that wouldn't suit the RMT argument. Engineering works have a far bigger affects on schedules although admittedly over a shorter time period.

 

[221129]

Last trains running one hour later and a VERY few additional trains is hardly "schedules thrown out of the window for a month" but that wouldn't suit the RMT argument. Engineering works have a far bigger affects on schedules although admittedly over a shorter time period.

Really? Another Axe to Grind? And how do you know that it doesn't have knock on effects?

 

[HH]

Last trains running an hour later may not sound very much, but it would break current diagrams and therefore would almost certainly require overtime every day or new diagrams/rosters. Either would be outside current agreements, and therefore SWT sound like they're being a tad disingenuous to me.

 

[Helvellyn]

Last trains running an hour later may not sound very much, but it would break current diagrams and therefore would almost certainly require overtime every day or new diagrams/rosters. Either would be outside current agreements, and therefore SWT sound like they're being a tad disingenuous to me.

But my terms and conditions allow for the cancellation of diagrams and amended ones to be issued. Happens for other special events, and engineering works already.

 

[313103]

But my terms and conditions allow for the cancellation of diagrams and amended ones to be issued. Happens for other special events, and engineering works already.

Yes but that is short term planning so is not a problem, The Olympics have been 5 years in the planning and for Stagecoach to say it is service as normal and then have a timetable that is in contradiction to that by running trains an hour later is as a poster put above a little disengenuous to say the least.

I know that if they said to me your diagram is being changed on a day to day basis by insisting it is a special event I would tell them i am not open to work more then my rostered hours on the LTP diagrams and that my contract does allow for Compulsory overtime.

If Stagecoach dont want to pay then i think rather then striking hows about a complete overtime ban and working to the current roster.

 

[HH]

But my terms and conditions allow for the cancellation of diagrams and amended ones to be issued. Happens for other special events, and engineering works already.

But not with compulsory overtime. How else are they going to cover the additional services?

Oops, sorry for duplicating the above. 313103 is absolutely spot on.

 

[Helvellyn]

Yes but that is short term planning so is not a problem, The Olympics have been 5 years in the planning and for Stagecoach to say it is service as normal and then have a timetable that is in contradiction to that by running trains an hour later is as a poster put above a little disengenuous to say the least.

Yet that was made clear last year that would be the plan. It's normal SWT response to special events. They amend diagrams during other week long events, like Ascot, Farnborough Air Show and Hampton Court! And the timetable was published last December saying these alterations would be happening, so it's no surprise to anyone who bothers to look at these things. What did our Company Council think they were signing up for?

This stinks of naked greed by some of my colleagues who seem to be green with envy that other TOCs are paying out a couple of hundred pounds in a lump sum, yet we got a payment that is now included in our pay every year!!!

If Stagecoach dont want to pay then i think rather then striking hows about a complete overtime ban and working to the current roster.

Ah, that would end up like the Rest Day dispute last year where the number of Guards working Rest Days actually went up, despite RMT bringing in a Rest Day working ban!!!

 

[Monty]

Yet that was made clear last year that would be the plan. It's normal SWT response to special events. They amend diagrams during other week long events, like Ascot, Farnborough Air Show and Hampton Court! And the timetable was published last December saying these alterations would be happening, so it's no surprise to anyone who bothers to look at these things. What did our Company Council think they were signing up for?

This stinks of naked greed by some of my colleagues who seem to be green with envy that other TOCs are paying out a couple of hundred pounds in a lump sum, yet we got a payment that is now included in our pay every year!!!


Ah, that would end up like the Rest Day dispute last year where the number of Guards working Rest Days actually went up, despite RMT bringing in a Rest Day working ban!!!

x2 I have to agree with what Helvellyn has said here. The difference between booking off at 1am or 3am in the morning makes no difference to me so long as I get my mandatory rest period between shifts. To be quite honest with you I don't think anyone is going to be forced to work earlier/later shifts if they don't want to.

What is really going to happen is some staff will get overtime (for which they will be paid and quite rightly so), this whole thing reeks of the union trying to squeeze extra few bob out for everyone regardless if they do overtime or not. Quite frankly in the grand scheme of things I wipe my arse with the 'bonus' that RMT are banging on about and I would much rather they spend their time trying to secure my job for the future not jeopardize it! :roll:

Striking over the Olympics will just play into to the company's hands and I can seriously see DOO happening within the next franchise if it happens, on top of that SWT have so many manager's trained as guards if did go out on strike the effect would be negligible....