Swt

[Big Chris]

I have been reading lots of posts about South West Trains and quite a few people seem to have a downer on them about the desiros and prices etc. From personal relatively substantial experience I have never had a problem with them and to date have not found: an unhelpful member of staff, a dirty train, i've had to stand on any but the most peak of peak services and only then it was because it was getting on at the last stop before Waterloo, a train more than 3 mins late or sadly, a friendly commuter.

A good game some of you may like to try is 'Train Seat Clearance: The Commuter Freak' sitting in a bay of 4 or 6 seats which has only one seat spare for you and seeing how many people you can get to move by being friendly and talking a little too much to people on their way to work in London. I have managed to get all five people from a bay i sat in to move on a busy train in a little under an hour with noone replacing them after seeing me with a big goofy grin on my face and a friendly "oh there is space to sit here if you like, the people who were here went to the toilet but don't seem to have come back." I have only had success on SWT and FCC with this tho.

Its great fun if you're in 'one of those moods.' Two tools are essential a rucksack and a book to use to strike up conversation. The rucksack scrabble around in to find your dog eared copy of a cult novel like hitchikers guide then proceed to talk at the person next you about the relative merits of this particualr book over another of its similar rivals.

 

[JustinStacey.x]

The only thing you have to do in Scotland to give people the creeps is to sit next to them. Up here, if there is a row of four seats, you can guarantee someone will sit in the furthest possible seat from you. If you ever go to sit *next* to someone, they hussle up as far away from you as possible and may even look at you as if to say 'why are you sitting next to me?'

[No, I don't smell and yes, this happens to everyone - Scots are just very antisocial...]

 

[Big Chris]

lol "no I don't smell" genius

 

[embers25]

I realise I may just be unlucky but my experiences are far from favourable. Take Saturday for instance...0736 from Woking to Crewkerne.

Not scheduled to call at Tisbury but on train announcements kept announcing it and the guard never corrected them or came thru the train at any point (what happened to the "This is your guard and I am situated in Coach A and will be walking thru the train during your journey" announcement). Finally the guards changed at Salisbury and the new more helpful guard announced AFTER leaving Salisbury that we wouldn't be stopping at Tisbury after all, which is not much use if you had stayed on figuring the stop had been added for some reason as all you could do is go past to Gillingham and come back but at least she said so.

At Crewkerne we disembark for the 0955 bus to Exeter. The only problem was that Crewkerne station staff were informing passengers the bus was not scheduled to go to Exeter and instead of arriving at 1120 we'd now be arriving by the train from Honiton at 1156. I showed them the online timetable that showed the bus and it was also still displayed at Woking and Salisbury but they were adamant I was wrong and the bus driver (driving a Stagecoach Express coach) showed me his roster which indeed said only Honiton. We duly left and on reaching Axminster more disgruntled passengers got on with one demanding we don't get off at Honiton and insist they take us to Exeter.

At Honiton we were told by the SWT staff there was indeed no bus and this was due to a timetable error. I protested vigourously and they said they had no spare bus as both buses had to return to Crewkerne (why they didn't think to just bring the spare bus down from Crewkerne only SWT know). I was directed to the Station Master and he informed me that I would have to wait for the train. I pointed out the timetable was still online showing the bus and that his own station departure screen showed it as running and also not cancelled. He again refused so I demanded taxis for all of us (not an hour delay but worth a shot I figured). He asked for a count of people and I reached 35 and lost count. At which point the train arrived and we all refused to board as it wasn't leaving for over 35 mins. Then when it became apparent there weren't enough passengers to even fill one Crewkerne bus we demanded again and this time the driver offered to take us too and the station master caved. Finally we arrived in Exeter at 1130 only 10 mins late and the driver got a round of applause when I pointed out to the coach how he had helped.

Sadly that's pretty typical of SWT recently. I realise it's not the guy at Honiton's fault SWT are so lousy but he said he'd known for several hours and both Axminster and Crewkerne knew and none of them thought it necessary to try to help us get to Exeter and thought it totally fine to make us wait 45 mins in Honiton.

To top it off going back Saturday the buses were late due to the fact the some idiot schedules them 30 mins from Exeter Central to Honiton which is nigh on impossible at any time let alone Saturday afternoon. However at Honiton instead of leaving straight away, the driver stopped and smoked and had a chat with the SWT staff who also didn't hurry them along. Same at Axminster. Finally we arrive at Crewkerne and only just make the train. I really hope things tighten up before the week long blockade from Yeovil to Honiton or there's gonna be a lot of problems.

Finally I just got a glimpse of the new hourly SWT to Exeter timetable. There is enough time for all trains to stop at Feniton/Whimple and Pinhoe but they don't. Instead they all have recovery time built in by missing the stop(s). I understand the need for recovery time but not at the expense of station stops. Its like the Matlock to Derby line fiasco where the train doesn't stop every two hours at some stations yet gets the same journey time as if stoppping to allow recovery time. What a joke and a very sneaky way of boosting performance stats. It's like EMT all over again and I thought I'd gotten away from those stupid StP recovery allowances.

 

[SWT Driver]

Embers can you paginate & paragraph your post please, it's so crammed together my eyes are going funny! hock:

 

[thefab444]

No worse than an other TOC from my experiences. Staff generally friendly and helpful, trains clean and punctual (the bloating of schedules isn't a SWT only thing). The timetable is a bit of a rat at the moment, hopefully at some point the Weymouth 2tph will be cut back to 1tph, which will ease stock problems (and won't change Weymouth journey times much, if the fast service calls at Wool, Moreton and Upwey instead of Branksome and Parkstone - basically back to pre-2007 levels).

RRBs will always be a farce as far as I'm concerned, the only thing they are useful for, is getting interesting recorded announcements.

With regards to the OP, the average commuter does not want some idiot sitting next to them talking nonsense, and I quite sympathise. If someone tried talking to me when on a journey, I'd probably move away, unless they had something useful and/or interesting to say. I'm not one for inane small talk.

 

[asylumxl]

In reply to the OP. Giving people evil stares seems to work on peak FCC services too.

 

[embers25]

No worse than an other TOC from my experiences. Staff generally friendly and helpful, trains clean and punctual (the bloating of schedules isn't a SWT only thing).

SWT on train staff are either great (on the Portsmouth Line) or so bad they are of a standard similar to Virgin West Coast (on West of England and Soton lines). Ticket office staff (1 man at Guildford excepted) are abysmal not knowing basic ticket restrictions or how to issue many tickets. Despite numerous complaints and retraining still only 2 people at Petersfield know how to issue railbus tickets to/from Waterlooville (or Waterloville as it is in Avantix for some reason!). Also, how many times in a week does the bus actually carry the required ticket machine?? I'd guess 2 on a good week.

Staff at Bournemouth are incapable of joining and separating trains with often long delays ensuing. Maybe they should get some training from Salisbury who are bionic.

I do agree they are some of the cleanest trains and Salisbury TMD truly does work wonders on it's 158/159 fleet which is by far the best in the country.

RRB's are a farce but they seem to excel at making them more farcical, which is bad for a company run by Stagecoach. Ash Vale directions to RRB stops are particularly entertaining and cause many missed buses.

SWT have not added massive slack at the end of the journeys like others but have added it in all the way along, particularly on the Exeter and Portsmouth lines and trains often sit for many minutes at Woking. In the new timetable ex-Exeter trains will now sit at least 5 minutes at Basingstoke on the way to London on Sundays instead of stopping at Whitchurch and Overton and on most days get 5 minutes at Exeter Central or Honiton instead of stopping at either Pinhoe or Feniton/Whimple. Ludicrous.

Lastly it's about time SWT updated their ticket machines to include more destinations. They close ticket offices and shorten opening hours yet their ticket machines don't sell tickets to lots of places, eg. Walton-On-Naze, St James Park Exeter and Exeter St Thomas (an SWT served) station to name just a few. Also their machines only sell anytime tickets during the morning peak even when for some routes the off peak tickets are valid. That must be illegal surely.

I agree I could be more unlucky and have to suffer London Midland but SWT have a long way to go.

 

[Big Chris]

I find it very sad that so many people spend so much time in the company of so many people they might find interesting yet find conversation so frightening they sit in silence. I have found some fascinating people to talk to on trains and have even conducted an oral history interview on a service from Crewe to Milton Keynes with a passenger I had just met. If travelling long distances I like to strike up conversation with those sitting near me, I always try and sit at a table as with my 37 inside leg airline seats rarely have enough leg room. We are social animals, I come from the middle of nowhere, my nearest station is Lakenheath (see wikipedia) I am studying for a Masters up in Bangor, a relatively small city. I am used to walking down the street and talking to people I meet. I know all my neighbours etc. I also like talking (according to my g/f I even do it in my sleep) which helps such encounters

And in response to the rail replacement bus response, I have yet to use SWT bus services but from previous experience Arriva Trains Wales were very good when I've used their replacement bus service and Virgin Trains were bloody awful nope worse than that really bloody awful but two weeks later i recieved a free return first class ticket to anywhere on their network, so I forgave the stressed rude lady who said "could the fat tall man please go to the next bus, your bags will not fit on this coach" I guess she was having a really sh*tty day (Jan 2nd 2008 at Northampton)

 

[thefab444]

Not everybody is such a great orator as yourself. Besides, the other people may have a good reason for not wanting to talk, maybe they just want to sit and think something over.

 

[me123]

The only thing you have to do in Scotland to give people the creeps is to sit next to them. Up here, if there is a row of four seats, you can guarantee someone will sit in the furthest possible seat from you. If you ever go to sit *next* to someone, they hussle up as far away from you as possible and may even look at you as if to say 'why are you sitting next to me?'

[No, I don't smell and yes, this happens to everyone - Scots are just very antisocial...]

I can vouch for this. It's a lot worse on the 320s than the 318s (bigger seats) and 334s (2+2 seats), though. It's the main reason 2+2 seating works up here and 3+2 simply doesn't.

It varies a lot depending on the route as well. The women on the Helensburgh trains feel that their handbag is more worthy of a seat than a human (but will grudgingly move it if you demand). Airdrie services are all right in the 2+2 334s. Whifflet passengers have no problem using seats; I've yet to see this as a problem on a Scotrail DMU.

I actually move up a bit, but it's not antisocial it's just to let them be able to actually use the tiny 3+2 seating if needed on 320s. I'm also the only person who uses the overhead luggage racks so I'm not blocking any seats with my bag. And I generally don't talk to people on trains, although there're some exceptions; I'm not entirely antisocial!

 

[Big Chris]

Not everybody is such a great orator as yourself. Besides, the other people may have a good reason for not wanting to talk, maybe they just want to sit and think something over.

Reading "The London Paper" surely can't count as thinking :P

 

[moonrakerz]

"This is your guard and I am situated in Coach A and will be walking thru the train during your journey" announcement).

I'm afraid you will never hear that ! for some strange reason the SWT service I use most (BRI to WAT), has letters on all the coaches but all the on-train announcements only refer to the coaches by number.

 

[LondonLarry]

I'm afraid you will never hear that ! for some strange reason the SWT service I use most (BRI to WAT), has letters on all the coaches but all the on-train announcements only refer to the coaches by number.

Announcing coach letters is only helpful if you know what letter coach you're in in the first place - e.g. Meridians and Voyagers. Mind you, announcing coach numbers is only helpful if you know which coach you got on in the first place! :roll::roll:

 

[SWT Driver]

SWT doesn't serve St James' Park (Exeter) & will cease to serve Exeter St Thomas in just over 14 weeks time.

 

[thefab444]

Reading "The London Paper" surely can't count as thinking :P

True - that counts as reading The London Paper.

Anyway, the majority of off-peak SWT services aren't busy enough for people to be forced to sit next to somebody else.

 

[embers25]

True they won't serve St Thomas soon but they do now and so should sell tickets to it...particularly due to Penalty Fares. St James Park is so critical as from Pinhoe the fare to St James Park is the cheapest fare (cheaper than Exeter Central) and so without it being available you either board and risk a penalty fare or pay a higher fare than you should with no hope of a refund.

This particularly matters with a Devon and Cornwall railcard which isn't valid with Anytime Fares. The off peak return to St James Park is £1.05 and St Thomas is £1.30 with the railcard whereas Exeter Central is a £1.40 (and SWT abolished the off peak single). The discrepancy arises as the Central fare is set by SWT and so inflated as per usual (for those that doubt that comment look at fares to Woking and see the peak inflation on anytime fares to there even though its not close to London).

Also, certainly the last time I checked, their machines still weren't selling Off Peak Day returns during the morning peak from Pinhoe to London despite them being valid on the 0649 and all later trains again leaving you to pay the much much higher anytime fare or risk a penalty.

Also the day before it'll often only sell you anytime tickets even though there is an off-peak ticket available. I realise they don't want to sell off-peak tickets to those travelling in peak but to refuse to sell the off peak ones in advance is ludicrous and yet a VERY sneaky way of getting extra revenue from those that assume the machine will offer all options.

Finally why do the Guildford barriers still reject almost every ticket for break of journey, even anytime ones (causing long delays in peak). That has to be an easy reprogram as Woking and Basingstoke work just fine and yet despite me raising it repeatedly with SWT they can't be arsed.

By your response you seem to be saying that train companies should only sell tickets to their own stations and I should be greatful they sell some others...how ludicrous is that. My point is, SWT shouldn't say we don't need ticket offices and also reduce the hours at Honiton and others citing the wonderful ticket machines when these machines don't sell tickets to many stations and often only offer a restricted fare choice, leading to mass overcharging.

 

[SWT Driver]

SWT don't serve it (St James' Pk) as it's a FGW station, they've never served it, not even in NSE or BR days, as the platforms were too short for loco hauled trains & I believe it would now require SDO or even LDO to be used.

As for Guildford barriers, it maybe to do with a fiddle where passengers from the inner area buy tickets to Farncombe, the next station down the line because it's cheaper than buying one to Guildford (in the peak times). So it's done to catch the fiddlers, who'll probably get PF'd for doing so.

 

[embers25]

SWT DO serve St Thomas still and from Pinhoe but not serving a station is an absolutely ridiculous argument for not having it on the machines. They don't serve Gomshall or Chichester for that matter but can you imagine the outcry if you couldn't get a ticket from Havant to Chichester or Guildford to Gomshall on their machines. Can't help also thinking that it's in their interest not to carry fares to St Thomas and St James Park as on fares to those fGW would get some of the revenue but by forcing everyone to get one to Central they ensure 100% of the revenue.

Your Farncombe argument may be true but thats fixed easily by adjusting the fares but shouldn't allow them to inconvenience everyone else. Also, there are many stations where that situation applies due to SWT's sneaky fare structure yet the barriers work. Clearly the solution here is for SWT to stop placing a massive unfair markup on certain stations....Woking, Guildford, Havant and Exeter spring to mind as major culprits.

 

[SWT Driver]

Please note my response, I said St James' Park NOT Exeter St Thomas.

Like I said Exeter St Thomas (EXT) is managed by FGW, it's nothing to do with SWT, SWT only call there to help fill gaps in the FGW service, it may well even be down to getting trains out of the Exeter St David's station (EXD) due to the number of services in there at any given time, as you know DaFT have said that with the doubling of the WAT-EXD service as of December, SWT will NOT be permitted to serve stations West of EXD, which means an end to the services to Paignton, Plymouth & SO service to Penzance & the return SuO service from PNZ to Waterloo.

If you dug deeper into it, you'll probably find that it's down to DaFT, they make the rules, NOT SWT, or it maybe down to the LENNON or ORCATS system.

I really don't know the commercial side of it, I'm a driver & not really interested in the ticketing aspects of it, sorry if that sounds bad, but my interests are 99,9% on the operational side & only 0,1% on the commercial side.

 

[yorkie]

If they don't sell a ticket to St James' Park, then you can get a permit to travel and buy the ticket at no extra cost on board with discount.

If they don't sell the ticket and there is no permit to travel machine then I believe they have to sell the ticket on board with discount.

And if anyone is not interested in ticketing, why post about ticketing?

As for Guildford barriers, it's DfT policy to barrier as many stations as possible, it won't be down to one particular fiddle. Barriers do not stop the "sandwich" fiddle that some commuters have allegedly been caught doing anyway, if anything replacing on train checks with barriers assist that sort of fiddle.

If London to Guildford commuters are buying to Farncombe then they are completely totally and utterly valid breaking their journey short at Guildford. This is not a "fiddle"; indeed it is likely Stagecoach-owned SWT who are fiddling with fares making them higher for certain more important stations, this was possible due to a loophole where TOCs could adjust major fares by more than the normal formula as long as the basket was not increased by more than the formula. This fiddling by the TOCs is, we are told, no longer permitted.

The suggestion that anyone could be given a penalty fare for getting on/off at Guildford if on a Farncombe to London SDR is absolutely absurd and totally incorrect. It's valid, perfectly.

 

[SWT Driver]

To be brutally honest the bloke on the barriers at Guildford is a complete & utter waste of time & space, also there's one gate permanently open for "Bridge Pass" holders :roll:

Also the stairs from the car-park is unmanned too, so freeloaders who fail to get through the barriers at the main station entrance go over the Farnham Road bridge into the car park in through the stairs an extra 6' walk, but you can have a free journey up the Newline to London Road & Guildford tech or the upper High Street or Aldershot or anywhere.

 

[moonrakerz]

Announcing coach letters is only helpful if you know what letter coach you're in in the first place - e.g. Meridians and Voyagers. Mind you, announcing coach numbers is only helpful if you know which coach you got on in the first place! :roll::roll:

My usual round trip starts off in the leading coach of 3, which is always D (I know it's D 'cos it says so on the door).
When we get to Waterloo it is now the leading coach of 9, still D - dread to think what the rest are !
Coming back I am in the rear coach of 6, still D, but we are now told that coaches 1,2 & 3 are for Honiton and coaches 4,5 & 6 are for Bristol. After Salisbury I am still in D, but at the rear of 3 coaches - am I in 6 or 3 now ??

I know to get into the rear of the train at Waterloo because the timetable says the Bristol bit leaves Salisbury after the Honiton bit !

 

[SWT Driver]

Just read the CIS screen on the end of the platform & board the correct part of the train, it's not exactly rocket science or the theory of relativity. :roll:

A question: Why is it you lot keep asking for the trains destination, when you want actually some intermediate station along that route?

An example of this was some punter asked me & a colleague for the Southampton train, so we told him, it was the one he was standing beside, he jumped on set up his stuff in a 1st Class seat, then just as the whistle blew & hassle alarms started sounding he asked the question; It does stop at Fleet doesn't it?

We shook our heads, to say No, didn't get the chance to tell him that the 1st & next stop was Winchester about 25 miles the other side.

The lesson being ALWAYS ask for the exact station you require not one of the principal stations or ultimate destination of the train/route.

 

[yorkie]

Unfortunately I encountered the opposite once when someone asked a guard if the train was for Swansea, and the guard said yes. It was a stopper for Milford Haven and NOT the best train to get for someone wanting to to go to Swansea. A HST pulled alongside but the error was corrected at Cardiff where the stopper was held.

 

[LondonLarry]

Just read the CIS screen on the end of the platform & board the correct part of the train, it's not exactly rocket science or the theory of relativity. :roll:

A question: Why is it you lot keep asking for the trains destination, when you want actually some intermediate station along that route?

An example of this was some punter asked me & a colleague for the Southampton train, so we told him, it was the one he was standing beside, he jumped on set up his stuff in a 1st Class seat, then just as the whistle blew & hassle alarms started sounding he asked the question; It does stop at Fleet doesn't it?

We shook our heads, to say No, didn't get the chance to tell him that the 1st & next stop was Winchester about 25 miles the other side.

The lesson being ALWAYS ask for the exact station you require not one of the principal stations or ultimate destination of the train/route.

What an idiot! I hope the guard charged him an excess!

 

[SWT Driver]

There's a certain ITN newsreader who lives between Alton & Winchester who if he misses the Alton train, tries to use his Alton Season Ticket to Winchester, without paying the excess...

 

[starrymarkb]

Please note my response, I said St James' Park NOT Exeter St Thomas.

Like I said Exeter St Thomas (EXT) is managed by FGW, it's nothing to do with SWT, SWT only call there to help fill gaps in the FGW service, it may well even be down to getting trains out of the Exeter St David's station (EXD) due to the number of services in there at any given time, as you know DaFT have said that with the doubling of the WAT-EXD service as of December, SWT will NOT be permitted to serve stations West of EXD, which means an end to the services to Paignton, Plymouth & SO service to Penzance & the return SuO service from PNZ to Waterloo.

If you dug deeper into it, you'll probably find that it's down to DaFT, they make the rules, NOT SWT, or it maybe down to the LENNON or ORCATS system.

I really don't know the commercial side of it, I'm a driver & not really interested in the ticketing aspects of it, sorry if that sounds bad, but my interests are 99,9% on the operational side & only 0,1% on the commercial side.

Also it would fall foul of the Double back ruling. SWT's 159s are too long to stop at SJP (a Class 158 or DoppleScud has to use Local Door operation - a 150 just fits) and so don't stop there. You'd have to alight at Central and get the next FGW stopper back (or walk - its 10 mins on foot from SJP to the back bridge of EXC)

 

[embers25]

I'm confused...what double back rule does it fall foul of as the shortest route (and thus permitted by default) is Pinhoe-Exeter Central-St James Park. I know that means the train passes thru non-stop en route but as there are no direct services it is valid in the same way Pewsey-Bedwyn via Newbury was valid prior to fGW running direct services.

 

[starrymarkb]

There is a rule that you can not pass through a station twice unless there is an easement to permit it in the fares manual.