T&W Metro given £103m additional funding in Budget 2020

AutoKratz

Member
Joined
26 Jan 2010
Messages
93
Location
Washington
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

MetroCar4058

Member
Joined
18 Jun 2014
Messages
553
The Government has confirmed in the Budget 2020 that over £100m will be used to fund the removal of the 3 single line sections between Pelaw and South Shields. This will allow Nexus to increase the frequency to a train every 10 minutes. The funding will also be used to purchase an additional 4 new Stadler Metro trains.

https://www.nexus.org.uk/news/item/...freqeuncy-and-reliability-tyne-and-wear-metro
Cheap way of showing commitment to the North East and arguably was already going to go ahead through the Transforming Cities Tranche 2 funding mechanisms. Real test is on the future expansion of the system.

Nevertheless, well done to Nexus for securing this funding.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
22,728
2.8km according to the article. I imagine there will be quite a few set of points though.
Thanks, I just found a useful Nexus video on Youtube as well:
Yes, at least six sets of points if they simply join and leave the Metro pair and run on the LH side in each direction as per normal. Pelaw bound trains being far more disruptive than in the Jarrow terminal direction.

More points altogether if they were to go for the luxury version with a loop somewhere as well? I wonder if they’ll “rationalise away” the sections that effectively have 3 tracks now?

I wonder if the oil trains could be arranged to run overnight?
 

jkkne

Member
Joined
13 Aug 2012
Messages
198
So £90m ish buys you a change in frequency of 12m to 10m.

That’s a pricey two minutes but a sensible one.

No mention of the new station at Hebburn Mill Lane they were hoping for
 

Paul_10

Member
Joined
24 Feb 2011
Messages
544
ohh I don’t know. If you’ve ever suffered the endless wait at Pelaw curve whilst a train trundles along from Hebburn you might revise that...
It's not ideal but whilst not all the money will be spent on electrifying the line, I do think the amounts don't back up to the benefits sadly. Also not building a new station between Pelaw and Hebburn could he a mistake as I no doubt the green land in that area will eventually be built on and of course taking advantage of the new houses currently being built on the other side.

Either way, plenty of disruption and line closures in the next 2+ years between Pelaw and South Shields to come, I like how Nexus hidden that bit from their reports!
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
15,992
Location
Yorkshire, Yorkshire, Yorkshire
Will this mean that all of the branches of the network will go to a ten minute service, presumably? (South Hylton/ Airport/ St James's)

Just wondering about pathing on the shared section through Sunderland for any second passenger train per hour, given the long gaps required between Metro and Northern services (i.e. a half hourly service could be scheduled better, rather than a lop sided Northern service, but one extra Metro service per hour will mean planning needs to be slightly tighter)
 

MetroCar4058

Member
Joined
18 Jun 2014
Messages
553
Yonks ago it was a 10 minute service on the South Shields line pretty much all of the day, what happened to push it out to 12. ?
General fleet reliability issues, lack of demand/funding and the fact the fleet is more intensity used on the new extensions.

Will this mean that all of the branches of the network will go to a ten minute service, presumably? (South Hylton/ Airport/ St James's)

Just wondering about pathing on the shared section through Sunderland for any second passenger train per hour, given the long gaps required between Metro and Northern services (i.e. a half hourly service could be scheduled better, rather than a lop sided Northern service, but one extra Metro service per hour will mean planning needs to be slightly tighter)
Yes - Im assuming the new trains are built to be compliant with railway safety legislation so double blocking will not be an issue and will free up paths.
 

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
4,702
Yonks ago it was a 10 minute service on the South Shields line pretty much all of the day, what happened to push it out to 12. ?
I'm pretty sure I remember when I used to visit Newcastle about 12-15 years ago, it there were long gaps in the service. I think it was something like, trains every 10 minutes, except that each hour there was one 20 minute gap. I certainly remember looking at the timetable and thinking, that was odd and wondering why they didn't just do the same number of trains at regular intervals.
 

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
4,702
Will this mean that all of the branches of the network will go to a ten minute service, presumably? (South Hylton/ Airport/ St James's)

Just wondering about pathing on the shared section through Sunderland for any second passenger train per hour, given the long gaps required between Metro and Northern services (i.e. a half hourly service could be scheduled better, rather than a lop sided Northern service, but one extra Metro service per hour will mean planning needs to be slightly tighter)
I would have thought that's the implication. I can't really see how they could run a train every 10 minutes on the South Shields route while still keeping a train every 12 minutes sharing the same track on the Sunderland route.

I'm slightly puzzled that the appear to be claiming that they'll achieve this with just four extra trains though. If my maths is correct that's basically a 20% increase in frequency on a <10% increase in the numbers of trains.
 

tbtc

Veteran Member
Joined
16 Dec 2008
Messages
15,992
Location
Yorkshire, Yorkshire, Yorkshire
Yes - Im assuming the new trains are built to be compliant with railway safety legislation so double blocking will not be an issue and will free up paths.
I would have thought that's the implication. I can't really see how they could run a train every 10 minutes on the South Shields route while still keeping a train every 12 minutes sharing the same track on the Sunderland route.

I'm slightly puzzled that the appear to be claiming that they'll achieve this with just four extra trains though. If my maths is correct that's basically a 20% increase in frequency on a <10% increase in the numbers of trains.
Cheers both - good news, it just seems odd that they are only referring to a frequency increase on one of the four "branches", when removing the bottlenecks on the South Shields line will allow a 20% increase across Tyneside/Wearside
 

D365

Established Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
7,318
Yes - Im assuming the new trains are built to be compliant with railway safety legislation so double blocking will not be an issue and will free up paths.
I'd be worried if this wasn't the case, bearing in mind that the Stadler units will be capable of 25kV AC retrofit.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
22,728
Will this mean that all of the branches of the network will go to a ten minute service, presumably? (South Hylton/ Airport/ St James's)
They do say in the originally linked article:
“One of the key points of Metro Flow is that it increases the frequency of Metro services system-wide from twelve minutes to ten minutes outside of the central areas.“

(Central areas being South Gosforth <> Pelaw where both frequencies are combined, if anyone doesn’t realise...)
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
22,728
Do you mean a 25kV AC retrofit solely for that voltage or for dual voltage retrofit?
AFAICR they’ve planned for the possibility of the Durham coast line being needed to go to 25 kV for Network Rail purposes, I don’t believe changing the Metro infrastructure is in scope.

I’m not sure how you do changeovers between overhead flavours, but I guess the procedure must already be happening somewhere in Europe.
 

Peter Mugridge

Established Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
10,970
Location
Epsom
I’m not sure how you do changeovers between overhead flavours, but I guess the procedure must already be happening somewhere in Europe.
I believe it's a longer than usual neutral section and often a different pantograph as well - although I gather some of the newer designs use a single pantograph for the different feeds?
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
18,796
Location
Nottingham
I believe it's a longer than usual neutral section and often a different pantograph as well - although I gather some of the newer designs use a single pantograph for the different feeds?
As far as I know all tram-trains use the same pantograph for different voltages - it's probably less critical as the top speed and power are both relatively low.
 

Tetchytyke

Veteran Member
Joined
12 Sep 2013
Messages
11,175
Location
Isle of Man
I'm slightly puzzled that the appear to be claiming that they'll achieve this with just four extra trains though. If my maths is correct that's basically a 20% increase in frequency on a <10% increase in the numbers of trains.
When the Sunderland extension first opened it was with 6tph on each line. The South Hylton-Park Lane bit underperformed and went to 3tph. They then switched the branches and settled on 5tph on each branch, all the way through. So there should be enough units.
 

Alfie1014

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2012
Messages
775
Location
Essex
I believe it's a longer than usual neutral section and often a different pantograph as well - although I gather some of the newer designs use a single pantograph for the different feeds?
Yep of course we had 6.25kv to 25kv AC changeovers on much of the UK network from the 1960s to 1980s on the GE, LTS and Glasgow suburban. The neutral sections were much longer (4x?) than on change of phase sections on 25kv. Same pantographs though and the extra traction equipment on the trains. On the continent normally require different pans at least for ac/dc though many countries have diff standards so pan width, carbons etc can vary even with same voltages.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
18,796
Location
Nottingham
Yep of course we had 6.25kv to 25kv AC changeovers on much of the UK network from the 1960s to 1980s on the GE, LTS and Glasgow suburban. The neutral sections were much longer (4x?) than on change of phase sections on 25kv. Same pantographs though and the extra traction equipment on the trains. On the continent normally require different pans at least for ac/dc though many countries have diff standards so pan width, carbons etc can vary even with same voltages.
The tram-trains I mentioned above also need a longer neutral section at a voltage change, and may use the same principle. If the traction system loses power for more than a certain period it disconnects itself from the pantograph and instead connects a voltage sensing circuit which determines whether it connects in AC or DC mode once the power comes back.
 

zuriblue

Member
Joined
12 Oct 2014
Messages
456
I believe it's a longer than usual neutral section and often a different pantograph as well - although I gather some of the newer designs use a single pantograph for the different feeds?
The FLIRTs that are used on TILO (Ticino_Lombardy S Bahn) change from the Swiss system (15 kV, 16.7Hz) to the Italian system (3kVDC) at Chiasso and do it through a single pantograph IIRC. The ETR610 Pendolinos use separate pans.
 

sjm77

Member
Joined
8 Jan 2020
Messages
16
Location
Manchester
Yonks ago it was a 10 minute service on the South Shields line pretty much all of the day, what happened to push it out to 12.
Actually until 1993 there was a 10 minute service to South Shields, this was when there was also a Blue line (North Shields - St.James) and a Red Line (Pelaw - Benton).
From 1994 we switched to only Green and Yellow Lines but Monday - Friday the frequency was every 7.5 minutes during the daytime. So with existing infrastructure and fleet* we managed this along the single line sections from 7am to 7pm Monday to Friday, but now we need lots of money for a 10 minute service! Someone at Nexus needs to blow the dust off their own history books!

*This was before the Sunderland extension of course which stretched the original fleet. Also it was South Shields that had the direct Airport Link on the Green Line at this time.
 
Last edited:

hacman

Member
Joined
22 Jul 2011
Messages
164
Actually until 1993 there was a 10 minute service to South Shields, this was when there was also a Blue line (North Shields - St.James) and a Red Line (Pelaw - Benton).
From 1994 we switched to only Green and Yellow Lines but Monday - Friday the frequency was every 7.5 minutes during the daytime. So with existing infrastructure and fleet* we managed this along the single line sections from 7am to 7pm Monday to Friday, but now we need lots of money for a 10 minute service! Someone at Nexus needs to blow the dust off their own history books!

*This was before the Sunderland extension of course which stretched the original fleet. Also it was South Shields that had the direct Airport Link on the Green Line at this time.
It was also when the fleet (and the rest of the supporting infrastructure) was much newer, and thus more reliable. There was also more frequent single unit running in those days, which from the mid-late '90s almost exclusively became a thing of the past, except for a brief trial in around 2007/8.
 

Top