Tactile Markers

Steddenm

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I've noticed at a few stations are now saying over the PA that "all platforms at this station does not have tactile paving at the platform edge", is this a new thing?
 
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norbitonflyer

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Poor grammar, to the point of ambiguity.

The singular verb "does" does not agree with the plural subject "platforms". Also reference to "all platforms" but singular "the platform edge"

Does it mean that not all platforms have it (but some might)? Or that all platforms lack it / no platforms have it?

What about "this station does not have tactile paving at its (some) platform edges"
 

pdeaves

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I've noticed at a few stations are now saying over the PA that "all platforms at this station does not have tactile paving at the platform edge", is this a new thing?
Yes, it is a new thing, arising from a partially sighted passenger falling off a platform somewhere in south London (Kidbrooke, maybe?).

Edit: it was Eden Park (as per post 9)
 
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edwin_m

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ORR is also getting much more strict on ensuring that tactiles are added to platforms whenever anything is being upgraded nearby.
 

norbitonflyer

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Is it just me, or has anyone else found those tactile markers a trip hazard? They can also make it difficult to push a wheelchair across.
 

PaulJ

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Is it just me, or has anyone else found those tactile markers a trip hazard? They can also make it difficult to push a wheelchair across.
But that tells me that they’re functioning correctly - in other words they stop wheelchairs/mobility scooters/buggies from rolling over the platform and on to the track.
 

station_road

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Poor grammar, to the point of ambiguity.

The singular verb "does" does not agree with the plural subject "platforms". Also reference to "all platforms" but singular "the platform edge"

Does it mean that not all platforms have it (but some might)? Or that all platforms lack it / no platforms have it?

What about "this station does not have tactile paving at its (some) platform edges"

The OP has got the gist of the announcement correct, but not the wording - the actual announcement is gramatically correct
 

mr_moo

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Yep, it's in response to this incident:

Summary​


At around 19:05 hrs on Wednesday 26 February 2020, a passenger train struck and fatally injured a person who had just fallen from platform 1 of Eden Park station.


The person, who had impaired vision, moved near to, and fell from, the platform edge probably because his visual impairment meant he was unaware that he was close to this edge. The platform edge was not fitted with markings intended to assist visually impaired people.

and in particular:

Recommendations​


The report makes six recommendations. The first and second are addressed to DfT and Network Rail, firstly to seek improvements in the processes that govern when tactile surfaces at the edge of station platforms should be installed, and secondly to develop a plan for installing tactile surfaces at higher priority locations in a timely manner across the railway network. The third is addressed to the Rail Delivery Group to develop means of reducing the risk to visually impaired people using station platforms where tactile surfaces have not yet been installed. The fourth is addressed to ORR and seeks improvements in the information made publicly available to help visually impaired people to decide whether it is safe to travel.

Essentially there is now a big push to install more tactiles wher they are not fitted, but extra announcements are an interim measure to reduce the risk.
 

JKF

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Going back a few years, there was a station upgrade programme up Skipton way where the contractor laid all the tactile slabs upside-down on one site. Cost them a bit to rectify it I believe.
 

800001

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I noticed Carlisle is having platforms resurfaced and as part of that tactile paving is also being installed.
 

eMeS

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At the supermarket when pushing a trolley, I avoid it like the plague - it's so long since I used the trains, I've forgotten what it's like when on a platform.
 

Nova1

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I was waiting for my train today and heard a new announcement I’d not heard before

“Please stand back from the platform edge. There is no tactile paving at this station. Please mind the step when getting onto the train”

Are TOCs really allowed to just do an announcement saying there’s no tactile paving instead of just installing it? How is this for people who have limited sight?
 

GB

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I don‘t know if tocs are required to retro fit it but even if they are there will obviously be an interim period before the works could be done.
 

ComUtoR

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Discussed here.
 

skyhigh

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Are TOCs really allowed to just do an announcement saying there’s no tactile paving instead of just installing it?
An announcement is a quick and easy stopgap until tactile paving is able to be installed- which it will be, as soon as possible.
 

357

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Is it just me, or has anyone else found those tactile markers a trip hazard? They can also make it difficult to push a wheelchair across.
By design the wheelchair shouldn't be getting pushed across them
 

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357

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I don’t think that’s totally correct with the likes of Merseyrail and stations where the trains allow level boarding e.g. FLIRTs.
Yes to clarify I'm talking about only when a classic style ramp is in use. However generally they are supposed to be hard to push over to ensure you're not doing it accidentally!
 

edwin_m

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Platforms on tramways and other lines with level boarding also have tactiles, although for a tramway they are a different "lozenge" pattern. I can't honestly see why they need to be different, certainly for high platform Metrolink, where I remember getting embroiled in a complicated discussion about whether they needed to change when it went from being signalled (and in that sense a railway) to line of sight operation.
 

Ediswan

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Stevenage
I was waiting for my train today and heard a new announcement I’d not heard before

“Please stand back from the platform edge. There is no tactile paving at this station. Please mind the step when getting onto the train”

Are TOCs really allowed to just do an announcement saying there’s no tactile paving instead of just installing it? How is this for people who have limited sight?
It strikes me that this is unavoidable. Adding any facility to all stations is a protracted process. At some stage, the new facility will become sufficiently common that it comes to be normal/expected. At this point, it seems wise to advertise the exceptions, especially if the new facility is safety-related.
 

scrapy

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By design the wheelchair shouldn't be getting pushed across them
Maybe not but I did see a passenger with a walking frame on wheels get it stuck and then in frustration attempt to lift it up and then almost topple over after alighting from a train, so they aren't good for everyone.

“Please stand back from the platform edge. There is no tactile paving at this station. Please mind the step when getting onto the train”
This does seem a bit daft given that tactile paving is supposed to assist those who cannot see the platform edge, how are they supposed to know where they are supposed to stand back from?
 
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172007

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By design the wheelchair shouldn't be getting pushed across them
But the same paving is used on pavements in town and city centres to Leeds people to traffic lights and denote drop down curbs etc so they must be designed for wheelchairs else wheel chairs would need to be in the road.
 

Turtle

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Is it just me, or has anyone else found those tactile markers a trip hazard? They can also make it difficult to push a wheelchair across.
No, it isn't just you. I find that they can slightly unbalance a person plus extra care is needed when using a walking stick which can skid, particularly if it is wet or frosty.
 

SteveyBee131

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But the same paving is used on pavements in town and city centres to Leeds people to traffic lights and denote drop down curbs etc so they must be designed for wheelchairs else wheel chairs would need to be in the road.
The tactile paving at dropped kerbs etc is a slightly different design which should in theory be easier to run wheelchairs, trams etc across if it's installed properly, the studs being arranged squarely. On station platforms the studs are arranged in a hexagonal pattern which makes it difficult for them to travel over by design.
 

1955LR

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The diamond pattern layout is specifically used to denote/ warn the edge of a platform . This gov. publication gives a lot of detail . Its too big to post in full Tactile paving surfaces (publishing.service.gov.uk)
CHAPTER 3 Platform Edge ( Off-Street) Warning Surface This chapter should be read in conjunction with the advice in the Introduction. 3.1 Purpose • The purpose of this surface is to warn visually impaired people of the edge of all off-street railway platforms. 3.2 Definition • The profile of the platform edge (offstreet) warning surface consists of offset rows of flat-topped domes 5mm (±0.5mm) high, spaced 66.5mm apart from the centre of one dome to the centre of the next (Figure 24 page 64). The surface is different to the blister surface used to warn of the absence of a kerb upstand at pedestrian crossing points (see Chapter 1 ). The surface can be any colour other than red, but should provide a good contrast with the surrounding area to assist partially sighted people. 3.3 Application The platform edge warning surface is recommended for use at all off-street rail platforms including: • heavy rail platforms; • off-street light rapid transit (LRT) platforms; and • underground platforms.
 

Tio Terry

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When Waterloo International was converted for domestic use the tactiles needed changing.

When it was an E* station passengers were not allowed on the platforms unless there was a train in the platform. So the tactile pattern was the "proceed with caution" one.

When it changed to a domestic station there was every chance that passengers would be allowed on platforms with no train present. This could have led to the visually impaired being given false information and ending up in the 4ft!. So the tactiles should have been changed to the "caution, platform edge" pattern.

I retired before the project was completed so not sure if it got done or not.
 

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