Taking complimentary newspaper from First Class without permission, theft or not?

[boxy321]

Taking a free morning newspaper in the evening that you are not entitled to is close to being a victimless crime. The content of the paper (this morning's news) is out of date so of very little value, and the artefact itself is no more than paper and ink: indeed, the two having been combined probably means that the newspaper is of less value than clean newsprint and a bottle of ink taken separately. And if you don't grab the paper, the traincrew will have to spend time and effort on picking up the stack of free papers and throwing them away.

So in practice, no one will care if in the evening someone takes a copy of the Times that they aren't entitled to. But it is still theft. If you took it, that must mean that it has some value to you. Why were you not prepared to give some of that value to the owner to compensate them for the loss of their asset?

And since it is theft, there is a moral risk to society. If it is ok to relieve a railway company of a newspaper that is (if anything) a liability to them, then surely it is little different to not pay a train fare? The train will run whether or not you buy a fare and (subject to overcrowding) the space you occupy would otherwise just be vacant. If it's okay to bilk a train fare, then surely Tesco won't miss you doing your weekly shop for free? And so on. By far the easiest line that draw is the one that says 'Thou shalt not steal' rather than the one that goes on to say 'except in the following circumstances, which should be considered illustrative rather than exhaustive.'

Only yesterday I grabbed a paper in the evening to do the crosswords as there were none in the morning. I do admit that there is sometimes a huge pile of Times sitting on the luggage racks (1730 from New St often).

 

[Mag_seven]

And if people help themselves early in the day there aren't enough left for people travelling later.

Indeed - try finding a first class complimentary newspaper later on in the day!

 

[ExRes]

I've had a read through and, strangely, not seen this question asked so far, If I was to walk through first class, take a few freebie newspapers and a couple of bottles of aqua gratis and then make my own papier mache toilet would I be looking at transportation to Australia and, if I was, would I get any complimentaries or an upgrade on the voyage?

 

[bb21]

Reminder to please take note of these points posted in the thread this one is split from. Thank you.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...to-get-to-standard.192831/page-5#post-4257285

 

[DaleCooper]

Im amazed we are still discussing this.
Apparently, there are people out there who dont know what the definition of theft is.
"Dishonestly appropriating property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it" is the legal definition. (Theft Act 1968)
You might argue the permanently depriving bit, but you would lose if it went to court (although of course the rail company would lose out in terms of public relations for being petty)

The Theft Act 1968

“Dishonestly”

(1)A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest—

(a)if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person; or

(b)if he appropriates the property in the belief that he would have the other’s consent if the other knew of the appropriation and the circumstances of it; or

(c)(except where the property came to him as trustee or personal representative) if he appropriates the property in the belief that the person to whom the property belongs cannot be discovered by taking reasonable steps.

(2)A person’s appropriation of property belonging to another may be dishonest notwithstanding that he is willing to pay for the property.

I think these exceptions could well apply in this case.

 

[jumble]

I cannot control other people. I can control my own actions, so I take reasonable measures to reduce the risk of my posessions getting stolen. That it also what insurance companies require in order for you to have a payout in the worst case scenario.

When I am cycling on the road, if a driver crashes into me because they didn't yield when I had priority, it is the drivers fault, and they would be prosecuted for careless driving. However, when I do cycle on the road, I won't stubbornly insist on priority if someone driving a motor vehicle doesn't look like they are going to give way. I cannot stop drivers of motor vehicles putting me in danger, I can take measures to minimise getting hit. Going round expecting everyone to always do the right thing is a recipe for disaster.

Exactly
We were bought up ( and I bought up my lot) with the mantra
It won't do you much good when lying in a bed in St Stevens Hospital to say that you had priority on the zebra crossing

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly
We were bought up ( and I bought up my lot) with the mantra
It won't do you much good when lying in a bed in St Stevens Hospital to say that you had priority on the zebra crossing

If everyone drove, cycled and walked defensively there would be far fewer road deaths to be reported in the complimentary newspapers.

(Have I brought that back on topic? )

 

[al78]

If everyone drove, cycled and walked defensively there would be far fewer road deaths to be reported in the complimentary newspapers.

(Have I brought that back on topic? )

There might not be as many complementary newspapers, becuase there would be less news to report if everyone always did the right thing and accidents/malice never happened.

 

[PeterC]

The proliferation of "free" papers and magazines has meant that a large minority of the public regard any periodical not on newsagent or supermarket shelf as free for the taking. I know a couple of music venues that have stopped retailing specialist magazines because too many people thought that the price on the cover was for decoration and walked off with them.

 

[CM]

Do away with First Class, problem solved, free papers for everyone. First Class to me is just a gimmick to get more money out of people. I mean, what do you ACTUALLY get for the ridiculously high price of a First Class ticket? A free paper, free coffee and food? You're on the same train that will be going to the same places at the same times so it's really not worth it unless you manage to get a decent price. The only time I've used First Class was a lucky £30 odd single from Glasgow to Preston on one of Virgins rancid Pendolinos.

 

[Wombat]

Do away with First Class, problem solved, free papers for everyone. First Class to me is just a gimmick to get more money out of people. I mean, what do you ACTUALLY get for the ridiculously high price of a First Class ticket? A free paper, free coffee and food? You're on the same train that will be going to the same places at the same times so it's really not worth it unless you manage to get a decent price. The only time I've used First Class was a lucky £30 odd single from Glasgow to Preston on one of Virgins rancid Pendolinos.

More legroom and (usually) quieter. I have to say that I don't recall seeing free newspapers when I've travelled first class, and I only recently noticed the bottles of water, despite having travelled in first occasionally for donkey's years. I think that "theft" is a bit strong if the free stuff isn't labelled as being for the benefit of first class passengers only.

If I'm travelling first class and don't want the free paper or water, and a standard class passenger wanders up wanting both of them, are one or both of us guilty of theft if I offer to let them have the stuff that I don't require?

 

[sprunt]

If I'm travelling first class and don't want the free paper or water, and a standard class passenger wanders up wanting both of them, are one or both of us guilty of theft if I offer to let them have the stuff that I don't require?

If you take a paper and a bottle of water as you're entitled to, they're then your property and you can do what you want with them. If you stood by the water and started handing them out, it would probably get a little bit murky.

 

[furnessvale]

Like people who take Waitrose shopping bags to Aldi?

Never mind Waitrose, how about Harrods?

I was in Harrods with my wife and she bought a pair of socks. The assistant was most apologetic that she didn't have a small bag to put them in and gave us a huge Harrods branded bag. Of course, everything else we were carrying had to go in the Harrods bag! No point in carrying a multitude of small bags is there!