Tatty EPB better than Pendolino

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The 375 King

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Just been to Liverpool on a pendo from Euston, rubbish train, no leg room, could not see out the 'window', seat was to hard, constant announcements, feeling sick on a curve. Virgin would have been better of buying the old EPB stock from southeasern and cellotaping a panto to the roof, than getting pendos. Pendos should all be sent to the army for target practice, or stored for Jezza Clarkson incase he runs out of caravans to smash.
 
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Smudger105e

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Just been to Liverpool on a pendo from Euston, rubbish train, no leg room, could not see out the 'window', seat was to hard, constant announcements, feeling sick on a curve. Virgin would have been better of buying the old EPB stock from southeasern and cellotaping a panto to the roof, than getting pendos. Pendos should all be sent to the army for target practice, or stored for Jezza Clarkson incase he runs out of caravans to smash.


Well I had my first Pendo ride last week, and although only a short trip (Manchester to Crewe) I quite liked it. The windows were small height wise, but lined up with the seat, seats were comfy, lighting was good, ride quality was excellent...
 

TheJRB

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I had my first ride on one a few weeks ago too. The journey out from London to Birmingham was quite rough and everything seemed to be vibrating loudly. I must say that tilting is quite an odd experience and not how I expected it would feel (especially when walking)! The return journey on the other hand was very smooth. It really shows the variation between units.
 

yorksrob

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Well, the EPB's were IMO very comfortable trains. The refurbed ones weren't even that tatty - they had quite pleasant a light and airey ambiance (if you discount the bain of graffiti that seems to afflict all rolling stock and infrastructure in South East London).

I'd be sure to carry a couple of empty 2L coca-cola bottles though if using one on a long journey from Euston to Lancaster for example :D
 
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Smudger105e

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Well, the EPB's were IMO very comfortable trains.

Oh, Rob, come on. The EPBs had big bouncy squeaky metal sprug cushions, poor bogies, no damping, really not up to modern day standards.

Must admit though, that being SR born, bred and trained, I do have a soft spot for the EPBs, HAPS, CEPs, BEPs, CIGS, BIGS, VEPs and the SUBs (which I did work on before they were withdrawn. Even did some work on the 2-BIL in the early '80's!!
 

Aictos

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Replace brand new stock with ageing stock? No thanks!

The 390s really ain't that bad, there are far worse stock that shouldn't be in use but due to circumstances have to be used.
 

yorksrob

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Oh, Rob, come on. The EPBs had big bouncy squeaky metal sprug cushions, poor bogies, no damping, really not up to modern day standards.

Mmmmm I'm there :D

On a more serious note, a rake of EPB's being hauled up the WCML by an 86 or 87 at 90mph would have been a superb railtour don't you think ?

I'd have paid to go on that !

Must admit though, that being SR born, bred and trained, I do have a soft spot for the EPBs, HAPS, CEPs, BEPs, CIGS, BIGS, VEPs and the SUBs (which I did work on before they were withdrawn. Even did some work on the 2-BIL in the early '80's!!

I know what you mean. I'd love to turn up at CharingX or Victoria on my way home to visit the parents and find one waiting for me - just like the old days.
 

Robinson

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I find the Pendolinos to be excellent trains. I always enjoy my trips between Southampton and Scotland, using VT between Euston and Glasgow. Good leg room (if you get an airline seat), onboard shop, window shades in standard class if the Sun gets in your eyes...

I've travelled fairly extensively in the UK, and out of all the long-distance rolling stock I've been on, the Pendolinos are my favourite hands down.
 

Marvin

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Pendos aren't my favourite trains, and they're not perfect by any stretch, but I still think they're excellent units.
 

thachieman350

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Recently travelled on my 8th pendo From MKC-EUS, and the ride was excellent over points, accelaration is amazing for a high speed train. Overall There excellent well suited units. Infact I get ****ed when my mum makes us take a LM 350 just because it leaves earlier. <(
 

route:oxford

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Just been to Liverpool on a pendo from Euston, rubbish train, no leg room, could not see out the 'window', seat was to hard, constant announcements, feeling sick on a curve. Virgin would have been better of buying the old EPB stock from southeasern and cellotaping a panto to the roof, than getting pendos. Pendos should all be sent to the army for target practice, or stored for Jezza Clarkson incase he runs out of caravans to smash.

On the other hand...

If you'd had the choice of being in an EPB or a Pendolino Coach in a similar accident to Grayrigg...

Which would you rather be in?
 

causton

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Only travelled on a Pendo 3 times, once as part of a trip to Birmingham (Virgin down, LM up), once when I had a LM Great Escape ticket and there was a one-under near Birmingham Intl so we were allowed to take a Virgin train to Crewe and then come back into Birmingham from there (it ended up with the line being cleared before we got to Rugby, so we went through Birmingham anyway! The train was an extra as well - presumably they cobbled together a morning peak train into London that was going to go to the depot and sent it... as an extra to Glasgow!) and once as part of a forum trip first class.

Apart from being a bit dark and not the best experience on the extra service (as it was rammed but the conductor refused to declassify first class - I even had a first class Great Escape but he wouldn't let me board in 1st!) - I can't fault them :D
 

All Line Rover

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The small windows on Pendolinos don't bother me. Providing you get a window seat, the view is excellent and unrestricted.

I actually prefer the Pendolino windows to the Super Voyager windows (even though the Super Voyager windows are larger), because the Pendolino windows have a windowsill (of sorts) which functions as a surprisingly comfortable armrest and creates the illusion of extra space when sitting in Standard Class. :D
 

387star

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the window sill that comfy though? I found it hard to get comfortable on it and would have preferred an arm rest
 

4SRKT

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The small windows on Pendolinos don't bother me. Providing you get a window seat, the view is excellent and unrestricted.

A slightly absurd statement, roughly equivalent in meaningfulness to "poverty doesn't bother me. Providing you have a well paid job, wealth is excellent".

If the windows were only twelve inches square, and there were only two per carriage, providing you were one of the two people next to them you would get an excellent view.
 

All Line Rover

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A slightly absurd statement, roughly equivalent in meaningfulness to "poverty doesn't bother me. Providing you have a well paid job, wealth is excellent".

No, it is not absurd. Poverty is unavoidable for many people. Getting a window seat on a Pendolino is not. 2/3 of the seats have a view. If you want a view, you'll get one, and a good one at that.

I should also point out that I am not talking about the width of the windows (which affects how many seats have a few). I am talking about the height of the windows, which is what seems to spark the occasional "Pendolinos are claustrophobic" comments.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
the window sill that comfy though? I found it hard to get comfortable on it and would have preferred an arm rest

I would prefer an armrest also (like on Class 175's and 395's). Unfortunately you only get them in First Class. But it's still better than Super Voyagers which have no armrest and no windowsill!
 

Kentish Paul

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Interesting stuff. Was a regular commuter in the early 90's (CEP, VEP and CIG) and remember one journey home (17:13 ex Charing Cross) which managed to arrive at Tonbridge 8 minutes early. The race down Hildenborough bank had regular commuters looking at the cord as the ride was all over the place after the driver applied power again after Hildenborough station !! Was in the leading DMSO of a CEP and was starting to grip the armrest myself.

As to Pendolino, had a return trip to Penrith not long after introduction and found it not too bad. I didn't book, but managed to find a seat with a view, but found the tilt a bit strange as one minute you were looking at the sky and next at the bogies of a passing train. Still a bit cramped inside but then thats you must accept if you want tilt inside our loading gauge.

Overall I think the Pendolino gets the vote over EP stock, but horses for courses.
 

172212

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I actually really like pendolinos. I like the:
Reservation system
Seats - I've never had a problem with the seats
First class - which is excellent
Electronic display information
Door opening procedure
They make a really quite noise - engine sound is less recognisable than class 350 and 323 engines

Overall I think they're great times, sometimes I go to Wolverhampton just to ride them. The majority of your issues with the pendolinos could be solved by purchasing a first class ticket
 

Manchester77

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I don't mind the pendos either. They have a good shop, not that bad seats, theyve proven that they're safe, first class isn't that bad and in standard they don't seem to be as cramped as in photos and the image from soem people. There's always space for my luggage and to be honest, I'm not so bothered about not having a window view. I like the fact that you get an electronic seat reservation as opposed to the little paper tag things. Really, the only thing that I'd change is the smelly loo.
 

MidnightFlyer

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The vibration at times is dreadful, usually from the blinds, I prefer 350s by quite a distance in this sense. Further, I don't like the reservation system, I think the traditional seatback ticket is better.

Something of note, a 390 is the only class of train I cannot write neatly whilst riding in motion. Any other EMU, LHCS or DMU I can write on; I find it borderline impossible on a Pendolino.
 

klewer

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Just to add my two pence, I think that the Pendos are fantastic units. With their accelaration and speed they've transformed the WCML.

Interior-wise, OK there's a few seats that don't have a window but you can say that about quite a lot of stock (try the carriage ends on any Mk3 based EMU) but apart from that they're comfortable for my 6ft 2 frame - even from Euston to Glasgow.

Finally, their construction is superb and therefore safe - the Grayrigg incident proved the strength of their frames.

To even consider comparing these to a clapped out SR EMU is absurd!
 

HSTEd

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Possible could do with a lighter interior colour scheme.
The greys and reds makes it feel a bit closer in my opinion
 

Manchester77

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Possible could do with a lighter interior colour scheme.
The greys and reds makes it feel a bit closer in my opinion

Yeah, I would have to agree with you there. It could do with a say dove grey perhaps. As long as they don't touch the seats though because they aren't that bad.
 

sprinterguy

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No, it is not absurd. Poverty is unavoidable for many people. Getting a window seat on a Pendolino is not. 2/3 of the seats have a view. If you want a view, you'll get one, and a good one at that.
Not if you're on a busy train you won't. Plus I wouldn't suggest either that all window seats on a Pendolino actually provide a good view either: That's rather dependant on how far along the window the seat is situated.
I should also point out that I am not talking about the width of the windows (which affects how many seats have a few). I am talking about the height of the windows, which is what seems to spark the occasional "Pendolinos are claustrophobic" comments.
I think that both the low height of the windows and the large width of the window pillars come in for some stick as causal factors to the Pendolino window "problem". The other problem they have is that because of their narrow height, they give the impression of being very low down on the bodyside when a passenger is standing up, adding to the "enclosed" feeling.

Mind you, I quite like Pendolinos, and I think that the OP will find that the vast majority of West Coast travellers would much prefer the faster, more reliable service that has been facilitated by the introduction of the Pendos. I rather like the fact that it takes under an hour and a half to get from Birmingham to London, and that London to Glasgow times are now much closer to the 4 hour mark than being over the 5 hour mark as they were in loco hauled days. You couldn't do that with an EPB, Kentish Pauls' experiences not withstanding ;)
 

starrymarkb

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I didn't actually notice the tilt, until I really tried to feel the movement!

I didn't feel it at all on an ICE-T* (Though they might not use it between Berlin and Leipzig as the line looks fairly straight from the map)


*ICE-T uses the Fiat tilt system from EuroPendolinos with German bodies and traction.
 

aformeruser

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Well I had my first Pendo ride last week, and although only a short trip (Manchester to Crewe) I quite liked it. The windows were small height wise, but lined up with the seat, seats were comfy, lighting was good, ride quality was excellent...

You were very lucky to get that seat.
 

yorksrob

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I don't mind the Pendo's - although personally I prefer the ambience of a Mk 3 anyday.

I wouldn't want youngsters to go away with the impression of EPB's as being the standard bearers for tattiness though. I've been on a few 14X and 15X's in the past ten years that have been every bit as internally "tired" (if not more so) as the most down at heel unrefurbed EPB.
 

junglejames

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A slightly absurd statement, roughly equivalent in meaningfulness to "poverty doesn't bother me. Providing you have a well paid job, wealth is excellent".

If the windows were only twelve inches square, and there were only two per carriage, providing you were one of the two people next to them you would get an excellent view.

We rarely agree, but thats a brilliant post! That needs to be framed and put up the top of every page!

As for my views. Putting it briefly, very good beneath the sole bar, rubbish above.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
and I think that the OP will find that the vast majority of West Coast travellers would much prefer the faster, more reliable service that has been facilitated by the introduction of the Pendos. I rather like the fact that it takes under an hour and a half to get from Birmingham to London, and that London to Glasgow times are now much closer to the 4 hour mark than being over the 5 hour mark as they were in loco hauled days. You couldn't do that with an EPB, Kentish Pauls' experiences not withstanding ;)

You make it sound as though it has to be a compromise? Fast journey times and rubbish interior, or good interior, rubbish journey times. Why cant we have the best of both worlds? It is possible. Its untrue to suggest its not possible to have a nice interior on a pendy.
 

TEW

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I would prefer an armrest also (like on Class 175's and 395's). Unfortunately you only get them in First Class. But it's still better than Super Voyagers which have no armrest and no windowsill!
Voyagers have armrests on the window side, I can't think of any other train, which is fitted with armrests, that doesn't have armrests next to the window, I do find it one of the most annoying things, the windowsill just isn't comfortable for me to put my arm on.
 
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