Teenagers are choosing to study over Saturday jobs, new report suggests

[Greenback]

No excuse for not getting a 2:1 from Richmond Commun, no excuse for not having a part-time job from Ms Patel, and no excuse from emoloyers for not having relevant work experience (not shelf-stacking, and maybe unpaid).

It may seem harsh to you now, but there are realities in life that maybe you've yet to experience fully. Life is all about challenges, overcoming them and any unfairness that you encounter. I've had my share of all those ,and there is no guaranteed way to avoid them.

The fact is that employers don't care about any of the pressures that anyone is under. When they are considering taking someone on, it will all come down to their experience, their character, how they present themselves, what they have achieved, and, yes, how they may have overcome obstacles and difficulties they have faced may also be a factor.

Usually there will be an element of most, if not all of the above involved. Shelf stacking can certainly play a part. It proves a candidate can turn up for work at the appointed time, can follow instructions, work within a team and possesses a whole host of other competencies as well.

This is what employers are looking for. If an applicant hasn't got enough strings to their bow, they are going to struggle tog et very far.

See what I mean about unrealistic expectations? If there is a person alive who can do all of those things while maintaining a healthy lifestyle and participating in society (by, I don't know, having friends) I will eat my sandals.

There are plenty of students who manage to do this, and more. My wife sees them almost every day!

The fact is that not everyone is able to do it. We are all individuals, we have different strengths, weaknesses and abilities. embrace them all, and accept that sometimes you won't succeed, but that doesn't make you any less of a person.

It all stems from the continuing obession with the idea that if you're not rich and successful, it must be because you didn't try very hard. And it's just nonsense.

Some people are rich and successful despite never having tried much at all. Others try and never succeed (see above). Some people work very hard indeed and eventually reap the rewards of that, though usually with an element of luck. I've never been aware of any obsession, though, that everyone must be rich and successful. it would be impossible to achieve!

It isn't. I know people who were lazy at uni and came out with a 2.2 but could have got a First. I also know people who got a 2.2 while trying their best. I see no reason we shouldn't push the former to put the effort in.

If you know you're putting the effort in, why "succumb" to the pressure?

Maybe I could have got a first, with a little more application. I don't know, but my grades varied between a high 2:2 and a first all the way through, though most of them were mid range 2:1. Would the sacrifices I'd have had to make in terms of cutting down on work and socialising have been worth the improvement? Well, I didn't think about it the time, but with hindsight, I'd say no!

As someone who has just graduated with a 2:1 (0.25% off a first, but there you go!), with a job due to start imminently and already with the weight of professional responsibility, I agree with Priti Patel and RichmondCommuter.

Congratulations on your result and your job.

It may be difficult to accept, but employers do not just want a good degree, they also want a well rounded person with relevant experience. That's life. You can refuse to get experience because you don't think you can manage it, but ultimately the only person you're hurting in the long term is you.

You've put it much better than my feeble attempts earlier in this post. However, I maintain that not everyone is capable, for various reasons, of achieving a good degree, holding down a part time job and remaining healthy in mind and body.

I'm well aware of how stressful university can be, but I'm also of the experience that it is (barring external problems) as stressful as you make it. Leave assignments to the last minute then of course you're going to do worse and be more stressed.

It's easy to give this sort of advice, and my experience is almost identical to yours (I always started assignments early, and finished them early too!), but I maintain that some are unable to cope properly. That's why there are drop outs, counselling services and the like, not all of the stress is from external factors.

I think it's rather telling that all those who have graduated or have jobs are all of a similar opinion on this point.

True, but I suspect that we are the ones that were able to cope with it all. I;m the first to admit that I think I was greatly helped by the fact that I'd matured a lot by the tiem I went to higher education. I'd had several years of holding down a reasonable job, working shifts, and I was well aware of how to manage money and time.

I do feel that not everyone is equipped for university at a younger age. I don't feel that I was. So I do have some sympathy with those that start a course and then succumb to the pressures involved. I honestly believe that had I gone at the age of 18 or 19 instead of 29, I would have ended up with serious mental health issues. By the time I went I was able to cope with it.

I don't agree with you! I will agree that it may well depend on what kind of job/career you are looking for. My chosen profession (I am now on my second ) had a very defined and structured graduation to certification route to which university bar work offered roughly nothing.

The point that some careers might be far less interested in irrelevant part time jobs is a fair one. My instinct is that these are very much in the minority, though.

I would agree with that. Although if you were recruiting two English teachers, would you take the one with a first from York, or the one with a 2:1 from Newcastle but had also worked as a teaching assistant part time/worked with special needs pupils etc? I know which one I would choose!

The point that it isn't just about academic achievement is also a fair one. Base don the criteria you've put forward, the 2:1 candidate appears stronger overall. But, having worked in recruitment, I feel it's not clear cut by any means. There may be other strengths and attributes that the first candidate has which are not confined to [part time work alone, such as voluntary work, experience when travelling abroad.

These are things that can be explored at interview, which is, of course why hardly anyone is ever taken on without one!

 

[radamfi]

If we assume that work experience, internships and other non-academic experience is advantageous, could you do that after university rather than before? Is there a difference?

 

[DarloRich]

The point that some careers might be far less interested in irrelevant part time jobs is a fair one. My instinct is that these are very much in the minority, though.

I am happy to agree with that. I simply wanted to add balance. Shall we sum up as horses for courses

 

[Bletchleyite]

If we assume that work experience, internships and other non-academic experience is advantageous, could you do that after university rather than before? Is there a difference?

Doing it at university while getting a good degree and a social life shows excellent time management, but not everyone can do that.

 

[Greenback]

I am happy to agree with that. I simply wanted to add balance. Shall we sum up as horses for courses

Absolutely, I was trying to add a bit of balance myself, while broadly agreeing with many of the points raised!

 

[WelshBluebird]

The fact is that employers don't care about any of the pressures that anyone is under.

Of course at least some employers do care about those kind of pressures because really, they do tell a lot about a persons character etc.
Say if someone has had to care for a disabled or elderly relative while still undertaking their degree etc.

 

[Blamethrower]

As a student, in your time off, you should be taking drugs, drinking, smoking and getting royally trashed whilst having as good a time as possible. Your life as a young person is over too soon to waste it on superfluous extra studying which may in fact confuse you and burn you out.

Where I work, you don't need a degree, you just need good aptitude and a sense of humour coupled with relevant work experience. It's about the right "fit" not what qualifications you have.

However if you want to be a senior manager, the only way that you can do that is to sacrifice all your youth to be trained correctly in politics, procrastination and networking. Once you've worked out who you are and what you want, it's often too late to make any changes.

I am technically a manager, but only within projects. I have tried the next level up and it sucks donkey balls, I earn enough where I am now to be happy.

I like the people I work with, they've got my back and I've got theirs.

You need to ask yourself: "I am I motivated by money? Am I desperate to be middle class? Am I willing to sacrifice everything I hold dear for this outcome?"

If yes: Go to uni and get a degree in politics and management/economics
If no: Just do what you want.

My Fiancee has a doctorate in biochemistry yet she earns less than me. Hence a degree is only necessary if you want a specific vocation or you want to be a middle-class middle/senior manager.

 

[Greenback]

Of course at least some employers do care about those kind of pressures because really, they do tell a lot about a persons character etc.
Say if someone has had to care for a disabled or elderly relative while still undertaking their degree etc.

That's true, if it's relevant to the job or the course, then that can be turned into a positive. What I meant was, that employers don't go care about the ordinary, some would say normal, stresses and pressures of balancing work, academic and social life during their studies.

I think it's also fair to say that nay employer would be looking for indications that an applicant would fit in to their business or workplace, and would be able to cope with the pressures inherent in that role. Evidence of being able to manage time and pressure during a uni course would normally only help a candidate, especially if the role is one where there are certain pressure point sin the work, for instance at the end of a calendar month.

 

[Johnuk123]

As a student, in your time off, you should be taking drugs.

Good grief.

 

[Nevillehill]

For someone who is intending on getting a good degree from a good university, I don't think it is necessary to do a part time job whilst you're still at school as the experience won't be any use when applying for graduate job interviews.

However, gaining work experience whilst at uni is very important - I wouldn't have got my current well-paid graduate job without any work experience even if most of my work experience wasn't in a directly related field. Graduate job interviews are full of competency questions 'Name a time when...' and if you haven't had any work experience, it will be very difficult to answer some of these.

Regarding work experience, I believe it is quality not quantity that is important from an experience point of view. 2 weeks unpaid work experience can be more valuable than working in a supermarket part-time for 2 years if it gives more relevant skills to put on your CV.

Well said

 

[Mojo]

If we assume that work experience, internships and other non-academic experience is advantageous, could you do that after university rather than before? Is there a difference?

For someone who is just finishing their A-Levels and has minimal (or no) work experience, I would recommend taking a year out before commencing university for the following reasons.

1) it allows you to gain the experience of finding, and doing a job, but without the pressure of having to study at the same time
2) it allows you to build up some savings which will be very useful at university
3) it means that you can apply for university after you have achieved your results, meaning all your offers are "unconditional" and you know where you will end up
4) it gives you a bit of time to perfect your personal statement for your Ucas
5) you will probably end up doing a rubbish job, so it gives you the motivation to go on to university and work hard, as you probably won't want to do a job like that for the rest of your life!

 

[Clip]

How so? I'm not arsed about being rich and famous! I just want to try and lead I life that I can feel satisfied with what I've got, even if it's not all that. Not be told constantly by everyone, certainly not Priti Patel, that I am somehow insufficient.
...

Well go ahead and lead that life once you get to it - certainly not now as you have no experience of it and wont until you actually get out there and get a job. She hasn't said you are insufficient - that's you being paranoid. There is nothing wrong with getting a job whilst you study - you would be amazed at just how much you actually learn from being in a job - any job but you actually don't realise it at that time.

I do wonder if you would take a different attitude to what she said if it was anyone but her or a Tory?

I don't agree with you! I will agree that it may well depend on what kind of job/career you are looking for. My chosen profession (I am now on my second ) had a very defined and structured graduation to certification route to which university bar work offered roughly nothing.

Roughly nothing I would agree(though I was running my own pub by 21 years of age ) however as I said above its the stuff you take away subconsciously in the job you take that assists you. Its alright having friends and socialising with them for most of your studies but when it is with others who you may not get along with and cant get away from - that is what having a job teaches you and your behaviours are gleaned from it imo.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder if you would take a different attitude to what she said if it was anyone but her or a Tory?

Speaking more generally...

I have noticed quite a lot of this recently which seems rather "sour grapes" by those whose preferred party lost the election. It's worth noting as I say this that I voted Labour, and as such I am happy to criticise the Tories' policies that I actually don't agree with, and at the moment there seem to be quite a number of these. However, many people seem to want to criticise *everything* they say even if Labour's (or their preferred party's) policy is the same or the Tories' policy makes equal sense, and to some extent that is starting to grate a little at times.

I like political debate (a lot) but I don't like pure partisan writing-off of policies.

 

[Chapeltom]

I graduated last year and have ended up out of the UK, quite happy to never return now. I look back on my University days, and I'm happy with how it turned out. My problem was always routine and the more work I had to, generally the better I did.

My first year, it was worth 10% and we had about 3/4 pieces to do all year. The results were all mid-high 2:2 and may have been one or two low 2:1s but I forget. I was working Sundays and watching football on Saturdays all over the North. I commuted it and I generally everything very relaxed, almost too relaxed. I commuted 2.5 hours each way and my attendance wasn't far off full.

Second year was interesting, more work and my results got better. I can't exactly remember what but I definitely got 2-3 high 2:1s, funnily enough my attendance dropped off towards about 70%. I had 4 essays in, in the space of 5 weeks. I decided to start them all simultaneously, about 6 weeks before the first one was due. Worked hard for about 6 weeks, first two got the better results, Easter break came and I never got back in the swing of it and I couldn't be bothered/motivation lacking finishing the second two. I know one was only a mid 2:2.

Third year, attendance was again low - about 70%. I only really turned up when I could be bothered until Christmas, I wasn't motivated as I hadn't experienced routine for so long but the sole essay in before it got a 66 or 68. I blame having 5 months off over the summer which was far too long, by this time I was no longer working in my job of 9 years. Never really got going, struggling to get motivated. Second essay got a high 2:1 and I knew that mathematically I could get an average of a high 2:2 in 4 remaining pieces and get a 2:1, which was never going to help my motivation.

Six weeks of University left my computer died and took my dissertation which was half done/other essay/lots of research with it. In the end I was travelling to Uni 5/6 days a week, working from either 8 till 5 or about 10-6 every day, got my dissertation done in about a month, excluding a self imposed 5 day break to let myself recover during first week of Easter. In the end, both dissertation/5000 word essay done about 2-3 days before due date and had 2-3 days of paper work/reference lists to produce. Also had a presentation in the middle of this to do which I hardly had any time to prepare for.

Handed it all in and 2 weeks later had an exam, 3 hours and I knew that exams and in particular that type of paper was not going to be easy. I didn't start revising till about 24 hours before hand and took a whatever will be, will be attitude. Fast forward to 1st July, results day and I got my 2:1. Dissertation was a low 2:1, other essay a mid 2:2 and presentation/exam both 1 mark off a first. Bit relieved in a way. My football/sport watching increased to nearly double what I'd done in in first year and when I was busy.


Point to all this, was what annoyed is the long break between the end of one term and start of another. I think I had 20 weeks off between 2nd and 3rd year. You can't seriously go and do a 13/14 week term of lectures/seminars after having so long off. It took me until late January/February in 2nd year to get motivated/into routine and never really got motivated at all during 3rd year except for a few weeks in February, until late March. I seriously jacked up the football/sport in 2nd year/3rd year and I think I ultimately used my time in Uni more wisely as I staunchly refused to do anything once I'd left the Uni library, I'd either slip into a pub/away to watch some sport and saw home as a place to relax.

I have no regrets about how I did things, I look back and think it was a bit of a laugh really. At one point I was doing 2/3 essays, commuting 3/4 days a week, 100/200 mile trip on Saturday for football and work on the Sunday and crammed about 20-25 pints a week as well. It is certainly possible to balance work/studies/alcohol/spare time but only for so long. It's not an easy task, it's a fine balancing act and it's possible you end up finding yourself having too much work/too much socialising/too much studying to do and inevitably anything else does suffer a bit. I cut alcohol out in my last six weeks, even football/Rugby I only did 6-8 games.

I came out though and this is what really annoyed me, was how I found my experience - over 9 years working, everything I'd done, I was doing 2-3 European Football Weekends in 2nd/3rd year and flying off on a Thursday/Friday and coming back in time for Uni on a Monday! I'd done 2-3 years helping out at my local radio station, had another job making sure licenced premises were asking for I.D for a year too. I found it all counted for nothing. Too many employers are looking for a certain type of individual. I'm an Aspergers sufferer and its fair to say, I have my quirks.

I'm different, I am not your ordinary kind of person. I've got a distinct Northern accent, my hobbies are slightly quirky and yet I felt as soon as I opened my mouth on a phone/in an interview I was wasting my time and that wasn't just because of how I spoke. In interviews etc I pronounce words properly and speak fairly clear English and yet 3 months after finishing Uni felt that it all been for nothing. I ended up on JSA and I made a phone call last August to enquire about teaching English abroad, flew out to Thailand to do a TEFL at the end of October and in January started a one year contract as an English teacher here in Bangkok. I love my job, feel I'm accepted for my differences and because of how I am, I've seemingly adapted to life here very easily.

I cannot see myself coming back to the UK anytime soon, everything feels a bit raw still. Employers want everything. They seem to want experience, someone who can communicate perfectly, good academic results, someone who is seemingly very normal and as soon as I was asked what my hobbies were, that always seem to me to be a question that I think well, you are gonna judge me off this. Walking, travelling, ground-hopping - all signs of someone is likes their own company.

Yet for all this I don't aspire to have riches, to be middle class, to have material goods I just want to be happy and I'm happy to live a very simple life, with few worries. I have one bill out here - my rent and I paid my electric/water at the same time. UK daily life is full of obstacles, bills and I cannot be bothered with such a complicated existence, its not for me. Maybe the whole experience after Uni, was good for me after all.