Telegraph article on proposals to ban split tickets

[jon0844]

When we invariably get a major overhaul of ticketing, to allow for smartcards and other smart ticketing solutions, I wonder if we'll see ordinary day tickets completely changing for something akin to a per-mile charge, based on time of day.

Intercity services could still work as they do now, as I see them as (for the most part) different to most services, and if that did happen - what's to say that an ordinary weekly/monthly/annual season ticket couldn't still have protected/capped fares? I'd have thought that the idea of having protected fares is primarily to protect commuters.

In the future, a regular user wouldn't necessarily require a season and to travel every day. Just travelling more than a certain amount could qualify for tiered discounts or capping, thus giving the same savings to people who NEED to travel and charging more for those who travel infrequently, with offers to encourage off-peak travel etc.

As things stand, I think the current ticketing system is quite broken due to the confusion of so many ticket types, restrictions and TOCs always trying to find ways to get around certain restrictions placed upon them by DfT/ATOC or whoever.

 

[HowMuch?]

A pure price per mile would either make short journeys very cheap or long journeys out of the question for leisure use. Isn't it the case that for most forms of transport a sliding scale is used, with price per mile falling with longer journeys? The formula is probably based on square roots or something.

But for unregulated leisure tickets, as Advance pricing shows, TOCs want to charge not by some theoretical "cost of provision" (ie distance based) but by DEMAND (ie getting the best price they can, regardless of distance). That's why lots of short advance tickets are expensive and some longer ones cheaper (and why they therefore feel the need to ban stopping short). If lots of people want to travel a specific short stretch (say, York to Northallerton) for leisure trips, then TOCs will always want to give little or no leisure discount for that specific journey, even if they are having to offer giveaway leisure prices in order to fill seats for a longer journey (say Stevenage to York).

That's not to say they should get away with it!

 

[jon0844]

Yes, my per mile idea might not be that great and perhaps I should have added that there would need to be a sliding scale, so a 100 mile trip by train wasn't £100 compared to a single stop costing just £2!

The other idea might be a zonal system for the whole country, with zones around major interchanges/hubs or cities.

I'm simply throwing ideas out there - but we will need to do something in the years to come. Ticketing WILL change and I hope that it will become more simple (and REALLY more simple, not ATOCs view of what simple is).

 

[HowMuch?]

I'd like a "calculable" fare based (slidingly) on per-leg mileage, too. Split ticketing would never be worth bothering with, no-one would mind you stopping short, and circular journeys would be no dearer than out and back.

The trouble is that TOCs will always want to offer lower prices (with extra restrictions) to fill quiet segments at quiet times on their own trains, and who would object to paying less? But then these cheap tickets become more and more prevalent, with finer gradations of price and restrictions, until they become almost the norm for leisure travel, until finally they are the "aren't our rail fares low?" smokescreen behind which unrestricted ticket prices get higher and higher.

... And you are back where we are now, where only business passengers can afford "impromptu" trips and the rest of us are stuck with rigidly-advance-planned holidays unless we have a car.

 

[jon0844]

So, let's crack on with smart ticketing then. From smartcards, to NFC enabled mobile phones to barcoded printed tickets.. or all of them.

Then TOCs can offer all sorts of promotions, sliding discounts, loyalty rewards and so on. With a card tied to a person, you can allow people to benefit from discounts over time - thus encouraging more usage, but also having a way to influence the usage, by how you offer promotions to get more off-peak usage etc. Would you need a railcard anymore? If you paired your ticket with a partner, discounts could be applied automatically (and no need to carry a railcard)..

Season ticket holders would get fixed discounts as now, but you'd now have the opportunity for flexible seasons for users - even on multiple routes.

Businesses could buy smartcards that could be used by multiple users (legitimately) as the card could only be used by one person at any one time. However, by having a few corporate travel cards, the business could get discounts over time and staff would have more flexibility to travel.

Cards could be topped up with credit (or tickets) which are downloaded to the ticket from a TVM, gateline or even by a member of staff on the train with a connected terminal, and easily blocked if lost or stolen.

There are so many benefits that it just takes someone to sit down and come up with a load of ideas - then sit and work out the pros and cons of each.

Passengers would get used to things very quickly and if they were confused, they'd be no more so than they already are - so what's the harm there? We've had a generation or two brought up on technology, so I really don't think any of this would be hard to accept.

If we don't do it, the rest of the world certainly will if it isn't already.

 

[yorkie]

I'd like a "calculable" fare based (slidingly) on per-leg mileage, too.

Ah, in that case, I have some questions

1) Please give me the proposed fares from York to Whitby for a day return, avoiding Darlington, and tell me how this fare is calculated and whether you think it will be competitive with the coach service provided by Coastliner that costs only slightly more than the current rail ticket price but offers a shorter journey time?

2) Please give me the proposed fares from York to London for a day return, and if this is lower than current prices, tell me where the revenue will be brought in to compensate EC for the revenue loss?

3) Please give me the proposed fares from Peterborough to Leicester, and also Leicester to Nottingham, and let me know how you are calculating the mileage and whether under your system it will be permitted to travel from Peterborough to Nottingham via Leicester or not, and if someone does go via Leicester what excess will be charged (if any)?

You can get mileages from the NRT, or the "carbon emissions" options on WebTIS-powered sites, or from Railmiles.

In the highly unlikely event that these questions can be answered in a way that would be satisfactory to the DfT, ATOC, the TOCs, and passengers, then I will be quite shocked.