Telltale sìgns of newbie rail travellers

[bussnapperwm]

Not quite, I say: "excuse me, is that bag yours?" If the answer is 'no', then I will move it and sit down.
If the answer is 'yes' then I say: "could you move it please, I am going to sit there". They then have the opportunity to move their own bag. If they don't then I will move it if there is room either in the rack or under/behind the seat. If they object to that then I will sit on it. That usually gets a response.*
* This is my strategy for a heavily loaded train in dyatime, NOT the last train full of drunks. That one may require support from a TM if present.

One problem...what if there is no luggage racks??

 

[Bletchleyite]

Then it goes on the floor or the passenger's knee.

 

[al78]

Not quite, I say: "excuse me, is that bag yours?" If the answer is 'no', then I will move it and sit down.
If the answer is 'yes' then I say: "could you move it please, I am going to sit there". They then have the opportunity to move their own bag. If they don't then I will move it if there is room either in the rack or under/behind the seat. If they object to that then I will sit on it. That usually gets a response.*
* This is my strategy for a heavily loaded train in dyatime, NOT the last train full of drunks. That one may require support from a TM if present.

I'm not sure I would have the courage to do that and I'm not convinced it is a good idea. Some people are extremely protective of their property and grabbing hold of someone elses bag without their consent (regardless of whether you are in the right or not) could easily put you on the receiving end of an assault.

 

[bramling]

I'm not sure I would have the courage to do that and I'm not convinced it is a good idea. Some people are extremely protective of their property and grabbing hold of someone elses bag without their consent (regardless of whether you are in the right or not) could easily put you on the receiving end of an assault.

My view would be moving someone else's bag is just as rude as it being there. Two wrongs don't make a right.

As an aside, someone touching my bag without consent whilst I'm travelling "on the cushions" would find themselves off the premises, as a member of the public should not be touching a bag which contains train keys and other confidential internal railway documentation.

Given some of the unpleasant characters that unfortunately grace trains, I can well understand why some people might try to gently dissuade others from sitting next to them. It may be increasingly selfish once the train passes 50% loading, but I think it's entirely understandable, rational, behaviour.

It doesn't help that you also get some people who will go for the first seat even if in an empty carriage - it can be mildly infuriating to have someone needlessly making your travelling environment more cramped when the train is very lightly loaded. Despite British people having a reputation for being reserved, this *does* happen. Again, placing a bag on a seat will reduce the chance of this happening, so another likely reason why people do it.

 

[AM9]

My view would be moving someone else's bag is just as rude as it being there. Two wrongs don't make a right.

As an aside, someone touching my bag without consent whilst I'm travelling "on the cushions" would find themselves off the premises, as a member of the public should not be touching a bag which contains train keys and other confidential internal railway documentation.

Given some of the unpleasant characters that unfortunately grace trains, I can well understand why some people might try to gently dissuade others from sitting next to them. It may be increasingly selfish once the train passes 50% loading, but I think it's entirely understandable, rational, behaviour.

It doesn't help that you also get some people who will go for the first seat even if in an empty carriage - it can be mildly infuriating to have someone needlessly making your travelling environment more cramped when the train is very lightly loaded. Despite British people having a reputation for being reserved, this *does* happen. Again, placing a bag on a seat will reduce the chance of this happening, so another likely reason why people do it.

Note the conditions that I refer to, i.e NOT a train with plenty of spare seats where these individuals think that they are being picked on. Bags etc. being referred to are commuter hand carry stuff which the NCoCs say must be kept on the owner's lap if no other space is available.These circumstances are where some passengers spread out as they see fit denying others of free seats on crowded trains.
The questions are perfectly polite and reasonable. The usual response is a grunt and - hey presto the bag is cleared with. Only twice have I had to occupy the seat without them removing the bag first. They didn't do it again.

 

[jon0844]

I've never had a problem putting my bag (usually a rucksack or 'manbag') on my lap. Once the train is moving and everyone is sitting down or has decided to stand, I may well put the bag back on an empty seat next to me - but it's moved again when we stop at the next station and new people get on.

It's simple courtesy to not expect people to ask me nicely, or even angrily, to move a bag.

 

[Agent_c]

... often accompanied by choo-choo or whoo-whoo noises, and encourage said young person to do the same. When was the last time a diesel or electric train went choo-choo?!

My Quebecois Girlfriend insists that the DLR trains go Choo (I think she heard an airbrake).

 

[hassaanhc]

My Quebecois Girlfriend insists that the DLR trains go Choo (I think she heard an airbrake).

The newer B07 stock does make that noise when the brakes release! You can hear it here at 2:32 https://youtu.be/qp8EKsFO5g0?t=2m21s

 

[amcluesent]

Noobs will stay in their reserved seat regardless of being squeezed in beside family from hell, overflowing toilet or broken aircon in carriage. Experienced pax will wait until train pulls out then go and look for better seating.

 

[alex17595]

Noobs will stay in their reserved seat regardless of being squeezed in beside family from hell, overflowing toilet or broken aircon in carriage. Experienced pax will wait until train pulls out then go and look for better seating.

This happened last time I did New Street-London. The Country end of the train was rammed with people standing/ cramped into every available seat, I walked down past the cafe and there was maybe 15 people sat in the Coach. I really don't understand why people would stay around that area instead of looking further down (at least it gives me more chance of a seat )

 

[al78]

Noobs will stay in their reserved seat regardless of being squeezed in beside family from hell, overflowing toilet or broken aircon in carriage. Experienced pax will wait until train pulls out then go and look for better seating.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read on here that one of the conditions of advance tickets is that the passenger has to sit in the seat reserved for them.

The other issue is that if you move out of your reserved seat then, assuming you sit in an unreserved seat, this takes an unreserved seat away from someone who doesn't have a seat reservation who may wish to use it. If someone boards a train and sees the seat is reserved, they are not going to know if it is genuinely about to be occupied or whether the person who has reserved it has moved elsewhere (although it will often become apparent further along the journey).

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is, but it is unenforced. Not surprising given that seat selection is *still* not available on most TOCs. It is sorely wanted.

 

[PermitToTravel]

On trains with paper reservation labels you can pull the label out for your seat, assuming that no further reservations are printed on it.

 

[martinsh]

On trains with paper reservation labels you can pull the label out for your seat, assuming that no further reservations are printed on it.

That's one of the disafvantages of electronic reservations, you can't remove them if you decide to sit elsewhere. Nor can you check, what the details of the reservations are - they are just "reserved"

 

[sheff1]

More unfamiliar on more modern stock might be the sliding door on disabled-accessible train toilets: don't just press the door "close" button; wait for the door to close, and then press the "lock" button. Failure to press "lock" causes a few embarrassments.....

I have been travelling by train across Europe for more decades than I care to remember, but I encountered something new to me the other week. Went into the disabled toilet on a German double deck train and looked round for the button(s) to close/lock the door - nothing. Stepped back outside and looked around - nothing.

Fortunately, helpful fellow passengers explained the procedure. You press the unlabelled button outside to open the door (as I had done). Once you have entered you then lean out and press the same button again - this close the door. You then flip a small, unlabelled mechanical lock inside. Would love to see the antics with this arrangement in the UK !

 

[jon0844]

Why have unlabelled buttons? Surely even Germany has people who don't use trains often and would be confused?

I have to say that I think the fake levers used on modern trains (particularly Bombardier trains) seem ideal. Close door, flick the lever (glorified switch) and done. Then flick switch back and open.

People can understand that, so perhaps they could be unlabelled. In the case of Bombardier stock, chances are the button covers will have fallen off anyway!

 

[ainsworth74]

On trains with paper reservation labels you can pull the label out for your seat, assuming that no further reservations are printed on it.

I did that recently on an East Coast service. I boarded at Darlington and was going to Kings Cross (the terminus for that service) and had a seat reservation to cover me for that journey. As the train wasn't busy I decided to change to a different (unreserved) seat and to make sure anyone joining at York (the only other stop) wouldn't think that my seat was occupied I removed the reservation (which had only my reservation on it).

Just before I sit down a member of VTEC staff comes up to me and says 'that's a £400 fine', nothing else just that. Being somewhat confused I say something like 'sorry?' to which she replies 'removing the reservation is a £400 fine put it back'. I explain that it's my reservation and I'm taking it out so other people can use the seat and she simply says 'you're not allowed to do that put it back or you'll be fined'. Not wanting any further arguments I put it back.

 

[headshot119]

I did that recently on an East Coast service. I boarded at Darlington and was going to Kings Cross (the terminus for that service) and had a seat reservation to cover me for that journey. As the train wasn't busy I decided to change to a different (unreserved) seat and to make sure anyone joining at York (the only other stop) wouldn't think that my seat was occupied I removed the reservation (which had only my reservation on it).

Just before I sit down a member of VTEC staff comes up to me and says 'that's a £400 fine', nothing else just that. Being somewhat confused I say something like 'sorry?' to which she replies 'removing the reservation is a £400 fine put it back'. I explain that it's my reservation and I'm taking it out so other people can use the seat and she simply says 'you're not allowed to do that put it back or you'll be fined'. Not wanting any further arguments I put it back.

I hope you got there name and have complained to VTEC about the poor customer service this individual is giving to customers?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good old GNER staff there perhaps

 

[PermitToTravel]

"Go on then, fine me..."

 

[sheff1]

"Go on then, fine me..."

Quite. I am amazed at the number of times I hear rail staff claim they are going to fine someone .... but that is a topic for another thread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is an offence to remove a reservation ticket, but I really
can't see a prosecution going through for removing your own.

 

[bramling]

It is an offence to remove a reservation ticket, but I really
can't see a prosecution going through for removing your own.

I never understand how people claim people have been threatened with being 'fined' by train staff. Despite some of the "penalty for misuse" notices, train staff don't generally bother with penalties, and certainly can't issue fines in the legal sense. The only staff who come close, arguably, are revenue staff who can issue PFs - which is also not technically a fine.

However, rail staff do have the weapon of being able to remove people from a given train, or from the railway entirely. This is a far more powerful deterrent in reality, especially if you have BTP nearby or on site.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The reservation labels do list "penalties" for unauthorised removal of a reservation label and unauthorised occupation of a reserved seat. Who applies these penalties, who knows; I assume it is through the Byelaws.

Don't be too harsh on the staff member though. Someone who was up to no good would also claim it was their seat (see TPE from Manchester Airport on a Sunday afternoon for further details).

 

[CaptainHaddock]

People who walk past a load of food and drink shops on the way to the station without buying anything and, once they get on the train, decide to pay £10 for a sandwich and a can of lager from the refreshments trolley.

 

[Antman]

People who walk past a load of food and drink shops on the way to the station without buying anything and, once they get on the train, decide to pay £10 for a sandwich and a can of lager from the refreshments trolley.

£10....................................is there a special offer on?

 

[jon0844]

People who walk past a load of food and drink shops on the way to the station without buying anything and, once they get on the train, decide to pay £10 for a sandwich and a can of lager from the refreshments trolley.

Isn't that cheaper than a lot of SSP outlets these days? [emoji6]

 

[sheff1]

I never understand how people claim people have been threatened with being 'fined' by train staff.

I have heard it many times but, of course, I cannot prove that. Perhaps in future I should record everything on my mobile and post the proof (as opposed to a 'claim') on the internet

 

[jon0844]

I've heard RPIs call PFs fines. And certainly when a member of the public refers to a PF as a fine themselves, staff rarely if ever correct them.

 

[Clip]

People who walk past a load of food and drink shops on the way to the station without buying anything and, once they get on the train, decide to pay £10 for a sandwich and a can of lager from the refreshments trolley.

Ill do this sometimes as the pork pies on FGW are excellent.

I've heard RPIs call PFs fines. And certainly when a member of the public refers to a PF as a fine themselves, staff rarely if ever correct them.

Whats the point? To your average person in the street any sort of financial penalty is a fine - the intricate details of who or what actually is a fine matters not.