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Temple Meads revenue protection

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ValleyLines142

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Every Thursday I commute from Trowbridge to Filton Abbey Wood. A few weeks ago I was making my regular journey with my friend. I had a return portion of an Anytime Return whilst he needed to buy a ticket at Trowbridge.

Trowbridge station has two windows (both of which are staffed in the morning) and a ticket machine on the platform outside. The ticket machine was broken and the queues for both windows in the ticket office were starting to build up.

After having queued for almost ten minutes, not helped by the fact some silly old dear took up quite some time at one window querying a future journey (why she came to the station at the height of rush hour to perform this I have no idea), I advised my mate to purchase his ticket on the train, as the first point of purchase (the ticket machine) was broken, and he had been queueing for double the amount of time suggested in the NRCoC, and so the next point of purchase would have been on the train.

The train pulled into Trowbridge and it was a 2-car 158 instead of a 5-car 165/166 combo, subsequently it was rammed to the rafters and arrived into Temple Meads twenty minutes late. We are students at UWE Frenchay and usually walk up to the campus from Filton Abbey Wood (usually a 20 minute walk), but because of how late we were, we decided to bail at Temple Meads and get the Metrobus from Redcliff Hill straight to UWE instead. We got to the unpaid fares booth at Temple Meads, and were greeted by a regular ticket clerk and a Revenue Protection Inspector. The regular ticket clerk offered her services, and when my mate asked for a return ticket from Trowbridge, she immediately passed him over to the RPI.

Thankfully, the RPI was more than happy to sell him a ticket, although a little dubious at first as she wasn't aware of the ticket machine at Trowbridge being broken. I think the RPI was a little caught-off when I told her that the Peak waiting time of five minutes at a queue had been broken, and I think if I was not knowledgeable on railway byelaws she'd have slapped him with a PF. But I am curious as to why the regular ticket clerk passed him on to the RPI in the first place. It was as if it was a trap to purposely get him slapped with a penalty fare, which he wouldn't have been liable for as he hadn't broken any byelaws at this point.

Any thoughts on this please?
 
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Darandio

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But I am curious as to why the regular ticket clerk passed him on to the RPI in the first place. It was as if it was a trap to purposely get him slapped with a penalty fare, which he wouldn't have been liable for as he hadn't broken any byelaws at this point.

But it seems the ticket clerk wasn't part of the subsequent conversation about queues and broken machines so had no idea about this. As far as they were aware your friend had boarded a train without a ticket from a station where facilities exist, and may well have been instructed to pass people on if that situation arose.
 

ValleyLines142

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But it seems the ticket clerk wasn't part of the subsequent conversation about queues and broken machines so had no idea about this. As far as they were aware your friend had boarded a train without a ticket from a station where facilities exist, and may well have been instructed to pass people on if that situation arose.

Sounds very sensible in my opinion. If there is any doubt, pass them onto an RPI who will (hopefully) know all about the regulations and what is/isn't allowed!

The conversation about the queue/broken ticket machine only came up with the RPI, and not with the regular ticket clerk at first.
 

northken

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Sounds very sensible in my opinion. If there is any doubt, pass them onto an RPI who will (hopefully) know all about the regulations and what is/isn't allowed!
The 'ticket clerk' at Temple Meads excess fares desk is actually an authorised penalty fares collector and should know all the rules anyway. Whilst I've never seen them actually dish out a penalty fare, I would be more on edge if passed to an RPI as there's a fair chance they might start cautioning you etc.
 

MotCO

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Why is there an unpaid fares booth when they don't seem to want to sell a ticket to someone who has not paid his fare?
 

northken

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Why is there an unpaid fares booth when they don't seem to want to sell a ticket to someone who has not paid his fare?
The two stations to the south and two stations to the north of Temple Meads, as well as the entire Severn Beach branch and several other stations easily with commuting distance (such as Patchway), don't have any ticketing facilities at all. Short-faring is remarkably easy at Temple Meads.
 

Darandio

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With this?

But I am curious as to why the regular ticket clerk passed him on to the RPI in the first place. It was as if it was a trap to purposely get him slapped with a penalty fare, which he wouldn't have been liable for as he hadn't broken any byelaws at this point.

But it seems the ticket clerk wasn't part of the subsequent conversation about queues and broken machines so had no idea about this. As far as they were aware your friend had boarded a train without a ticket from a station where facilities exist, and may well have been instructed to pass people on if that situation arose.
 

Dai Corner

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Excess Fares = 'I have a valid ticket to here but want to travel on to another station or otherwise change my plans'

Revenue Protection = 'Why haven't you got a valid ticket?'
 

edwin_m

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Perhaps the answer is that the ticket clerk passes cases that might take a bit of time or get into controversial areas over to the RPI, so as to be free to deal with the simpler cases of people wanting tickets from the stations where there is no facility to buy one. Otherwise people wanting the straightforward tickets might get held up like you were at Trowbridge.
 

The_Train

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Why is there an unpaid fares booth when they don't seem to want to sell a ticket to someone who has not paid his fare?

I'm by no means a ticketing nor railway expert, quite the opposite actually, but wouldn't these be available to those people who've boarded a train at a station which doesn't have any ticketing facilities? Would explain why once the OP's friend had mentioned travelling from Trowbridge he was passed on to RPI for further investigation
 

ValleyLines142

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Perhaps the answer is that the ticket clerk passes cases that might take a bit of time or get into controversial areas over to the RPI, so as to be free to deal with the simpler cases of people wanting tickets from the stations where there is no facility to buy one. Otherwise people wanting the straightforward tickets might get held up like you were at Trowbridge.

Probably the most sensible answer. I imagine that is the case.

I do still find it a little strange mind.
 

tiptoptaff

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The 'ticket clerk' at Temple Meads excess fares desk is actually an authorised penalty fares collector and should know all the rules anyway. Whilst I've never seen them actually dish out a penalty fare, I would be more on edge if passed to an RPI as there's a fair chance they might start cautioning you etc.
Not strictly true. The desk itself is staffed by ticket examiners, who can only sell tickets. They are supported by RPIs, whom are able to issue PFs, UFNs and all the other prosecution referral stuff
 

221129

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Not strictly true. The desk itself is staffed by ticket examiners, who can only sell tickets. They are supported by RPIs, whom are able to issue PFs, UFNs and all the other prosecution referral stuff
Most if not all the TEs are authorised collectors for the purposes of Penalty Fares.
 

Mojo

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Does it matter? Does it help the OP?
I would say it is relevant, because the OP asked "I am curious as to why the regular ticket clerk passed him on to the RPI in the first place," because for all intents and purposes whilst the Ticket Examiners (TE) and RPIs are separate grades, they both work within the same department and also work closely with each other. The TE would just have been as qualified to issue a Penalty fare (unless he was still in training I suppose).
 
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