Temporary Closure for Rose Hill Marple

[Ianno87]

If I recall correctly, a good chunk of the journeys were made from stations between Gorton and Hyde Central to Romiley on an early afternoon outbound service (more than those that got on at Piccadilly from memory).

I'll grant you, not journeys with a particularly easy alternative (Gorton/Guide Bridge via Ashburys, Hyde would be bus to Bredbury).

To my surprise, there isn't a direct bus between Hyde and Romiley.

These two statements conflict with each other. You're presuming everyone who needs to travel can travel despite the current reduced timetables - that is an incorrect presumption and as I suspected you have no idea what is currently going on with the commuter services on the lines out of Manchester.

No they don't.

Northern would quite easily be able to asses usage (in relative terms between different routes recognising that all routes are currently experiencing low demand) via ticket sales data.

Rose Hill et al no doubt came out somewhere near the bottom comparatively, and where a decent proportion of (albeit not all) passengers have reasonable alternatives, being a short line within a relatively urban-ish area with other nearby rail and bus routes.

I don't pretend to know what exact demand is. But Northern do and will have made the decision on that basis.

And be under no illusion, I am no supporter of the withdrawal of this service being permanent - just a necessary evil for the time being.

 

[peters]

No they don't.

Northern would quite easily be able to asses usage (in relative terms between different routes recognising that all routes are currently experiencing low demand) via ticket sales data.

Wow it's amazing Northern can tell when people currently on furlough or working from home will be returning to the office based on ticket sales data. I suppose you think they can also tell when people are due to start new jobs from ticket sales data and I presume it all complies with GDPR as well, despite no-one actually telling the ticket person why they are travelling when they buy a ticket!

I can actually inform you that Northern (by their own admission) have based their 'temporary timetables' on data given to them by local authorities on what type of workers use each line, the idea was the lines with the fewest 'key workers' would see the heaviest reductions in service levels. As you can imagine the most up-to-date comprehensive data which local authorities on worker flows had was the 2011 census data so yes in many cases the 'temporary timetables' are based on 2011 demand, hence why it's been one of the biggest **** ups in railway history.

 

[Ianno87]

Wow it's amazing Northern can tell when people currently on furlough or working from home will be returning to the office based on ticket sales data. I suppose you think they can also tell when people are due to start new jobs from ticket sales data and I presume it all complies with GDPR as well, despite no-one actually telling the ticket person why they are travelling when they buy a ticket!

I can actually inform you that Northern (by their own admission) have based their 'temporary timetables' on data given to them by local authorities on what type of workers use each line, the idea was the lines with the fewest 'key workers' would see the heaviest reductions in service levels. As you can imagine the most up-to-date comprehensive data which local authorities on worker flows had was the 2011 census data so yes in many cases the 'temporary timetables' are based on 2011 demand, hence why it's been one of the biggest **** ups in railway history.

Those issues of course apply to all of Northern's routes, and Northern are having to make clearly difficult decisions based on the data available them: Pre-Covid demand, post-Lockdown demand to date and key worker data, and quite clearly alot of speculation about how and when demand will return.

You're looking for a perfect solution when there quite clearly isn't one at this point in time.

 

[peters]

and quite clearly alot of speculation about how and when demand will return.

Yet you were asking someone for figures of how many people are inconvenienced in an earlier post, so now at least you admit no-one knows those figures for certain.

 

[Ianno87]

Yet you were asking someone for figures of how many people are inconvenienced in an earlier post, so now at least you admit no-one knows those figures for certain.

*Current* passengers, before demand returns. i.e. if passengers aren't travelling now, they still won't be travelling on the withdrawn service so they don't "lose out".

This would equally have applied should services have been withdrawn from another route insread. Not specific to Rose Hill (other than being reasonably well-endowed with alternative routes for displaced passengers)

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder that any suggestions/ideas are welcome but must be posted exclusively in the Speculative Ideas section please.

Some posts split here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...olution-for-the-rose-hill-marple-line.208857/

And some here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...utions-than-shutting-rose-hill-marple.208858/

 

[Mag_seven]

It's been announced that a "limited" service will continue to operate to Rose Hill:

https://twitter.com/OfficialTfGM/status/1304128426647990273

Northern has changed its decision to temporarily close the Rose Hill Line & Hyde Loop, instead committing to running a limited service on the line. We hope this will minimise inconvenience to customers.

Northern's website hasn't been updated yet, however.

 

[Pete 1981]

Just had an e-mail from the local Lib Dems stating they'll be a service next week.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

A further tweet, down the timeline from the GM announcement (#277):

Cllr David Meller

YES! @northernassist going to run two services during the suspension period with a guarantee to run a 90-minute service from Rose Hill from 26th October. Services then resume as normal from December.

 

[Bow Fell]

So after all that doom and gloom about the line being permanent closure, it’s umm...not.

And I was looking forward to resurrecting this thread in December, when normal service would have resumed anyway.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Northern to run three trains each way per day for schoolchildren from 14th September (the information is at the bottom of this page on their website):https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/u...suspension-rose-hill-to-manchester-piccadilly

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Hmmm. What next? One train a week each way on a Saturday morning?

 

[Rail Ranger]

Northern have pledged to run a service on the Rose Hill line every 90 minutes from Monday 26th October.

 

[scrapy]

The three weekday services will all replace existing New Mills and Marple services so the

07.50 from New Mills, 08.54 from Marple and 15.34 from New Mills to Piccadilly will no longer run, with their corresponding outward services from Piccadilly diverted to Rose Hill. No extra resources required. Unhelpfully they are still showing as running in the journey planner so anyone planning their journey today will be disappointed on Monday.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Are we assuming that WCRC are now out of the picture?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really got it in for Fairfield, haven't they?

 

[Rail Ranger]

Really got it in for Fairfield, haven't they?

Fairfield is surprisingly lightly used (not that that is any excuse). BR destaffed the station in the 1970s.

 

[Bow Fell]

As well as 142’s, 195’s will also be going to Rose Hill from next week.

 

[Mag_seven]

Are we assuming that WCRC are now out of the picture?

Yes they are (for the moment at least!)

 

[Bletchleyite]

As well as 142’s, 195’s will also be going to Rose Hill from next week.

Crikey, that's an upgrade.

 

[xfield]

Just had an e-mail from the local Lib Dems stating they'll be a service next week.

All three local parties are claiming victory on "saving the service" - its pitiful how they're all willing to spin such a huge cut in service for several months as a huge success, when in fact their constituents are far worse off.

 

[peters]

As well as 142’s, 195’s will also be going to Rose Hill from next week.

If the new trains are compensation for the poor service then surely the Mid-Cheshire line should also be getting them as well, given the main stations on the line are only getting 25% of the service level they should be getting at off-peak times.

 

[geoffk]

"Northern’s train planners have therefore rejigged the times of some journeys to New Mills Central to enable two morning and one afternoon journey to operate from Rose Hill via Bredbury which are intended just for school children." This is from a bus and train user blog. Which schools are being served and from which direction are the kids travelling? Looks like another Oban situation, i.e. only kids can travel as social distancing not required.

 

[peters]

"Northern’s train planners have therefore rejigged the times of some journeys to New Mills Central to enable two morning and one afternoon journey to operate from Rose Hill via Bredbury which are intended just for school children." This is from a bus and train user blog. Which schools are being served and from which direction are the kids travelling? Looks like another Oban situation, i.e. only kids can travel as social distancing not required.

Surely anyone can use the service if it's advertised even if the timings are worked so it fits nicely with the school start and finish times. My children's school have year bubble seating arrangements for designated school transport which means if there's 7 pupils in year 7 then the year group takes up 8 seats as a year 7 pupil is not permitted to sit next to a year 8 pupil. The idea for those travelling on public transport is they are supposed to remain in their year group bubbles as much as possible.

 

[yrreb]

Regular Hyde Central commuter here - today and yesterday I used the first service of the morning (being operated by a 195) to get to Romiley so I can then catch either the 0813 from Sheffield (which was cancelled yesterday) or the 0823 via Bredbury in the circumstance that the 0813 is cancelled.

Haven't had any issues so far travelling on this service and while there's a lot of school kids who get on at Woodley and Romiley, there's still plenty of space. Nobody else really gets on or off at Hyde Central, two were off this morning and two including myself got on.

I'm grateful that there is some kind of service as well as the fact they're deciding to run new trains on it now but it's still a major disappointment - it's not like people rely on trains or anything like that.

 

[peters]

Has anyone noticed the title of this page is

"ROUTE IMPROVEMENTS
Temporary service suspension - Rose Hill to Manchester Piccadilly"

Temporary service suspension - Rose Hill to Manchester Piccadilly | Northern

Until Monday 14 December …

www.northernrailway.co.uk

Although, I suppose not running a service might mean the track is in better condition in December, compared to the condition it would be in if it was in regular use.

 

[splashoutradio]

It is interesting to read, that there may be no/very few trains, but the station is still being staffed as normal during operating hours.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Has anyone noticed the title of this page is

"ROUTE IMPROVEMENTS
Temporary service suspension - Rose Hill to Manchester Piccadilly"

Temporary service suspension - Rose Hill to Manchester Piccadilly | Northern

Until Monday 14 December …

www.northernrailway.co.uk

Although, I suppose not running a service might mean the track is in better condition in December, compared to the condition it would be in if it was in regular use.

Haha, route improvement = service suspension... does nobody check these things?

 

[pdeaves]

Haha, route improvement = service suspension... does nobody check these things?

Well, be fair, people have moaned about Northern's service offering enough that maybe a service suspension is an improvement!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Well, be fair, people have moaned about Northern's service offering enough that maybe a service suspension is an improvement!

Guaranteed no service is an improvement on full service with random cancellation. At least you know where you stand and know (rather than guess) you have to make alternative arrangements. Certainty beats uncertainty every time in my book.