Temporary Closure for Rose Hill Marple

gc4946

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I know someone who'll be very angry when he finds out that the Rose Hill Marple service will be suspended, because he travels to/from Hyde North, his nearest station. Flowery Field station is a good 20 minute walk from his home.
Northern should have kept the Rose Hill Marple service, but cancel the 2-hourly Piccadilly-New Mills trains and rejig stopping patterns on the remaining trains between Piccadilly-New Mills.
 
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peters

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I know someone who'll be very angry when he finds out that the Rose Hill Marple service will be suspended, because he travels to/from Hyde North, his nearest station. Flowery Field station is a good 20 minute walk from his home.
He's normally a lucky man having two stations on two different lines within walking distance from his home. That must be very handy when there's disruption like a signalling problem or a broken down train.
 

Greybeard33

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We are both incorrect. The New Mills terminator (which is in addition to the Sheffield service) is currently only running approximately every 2 hours, up to 2000 only, Mon-Sat.
Yes, the New Mills terminators become hourly from 14 September, when the Rose Hill service is withdrawn. Presumably that requires fewer driver diagrams in total.
 

Greybeard33

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As I previously pointed out upthread...
But that would leave only 1tph at Bredbury, Brinnington and Reddish North. And the Sheffield service would have to make additional stops at Ryder Brow and Belle Vue or they would be left with no service. Even with a 4-car, there would be an increased risk that loadings would become high enough to compromise social distancing and increase the risk of infection.

Collectively, the 2018-19 footfall at these stations was much higher than for those on the Hyde branch. You would be "robbing Peter to pay Paul".
 

peters

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OK... and how is closing an entire line to allow doubling of frequency on another line not 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' then?
Presumably you're referring to the Southport line there given the Mid-Cheshire line is remaining 2 hourly off-peak and Buxton is remaining hourly at off-peak times. The Mid-Cheshire actually got robbed so Marple could retain a regular all day service and it's one of the few places with trains from Manchester after 8pm currently.
 

py_megapixel

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Presumably you're referring to the Southport line there given the Mid-Cheshire line is remaining 2 hourly off-peak and Buxton is remaining hourly at off-peak times. The Mid-Cheshire actually got robbed so Marple could retain a regular all day service and it's one of the few places with trains from Manchester after 8pm currently.
No, I'm returning to the New Mills stoppers going hourly again.
 

Greybeard33

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OK... and how is closing an entire line to allow doubling of frequency on another line not 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' then?
Well, perhaps 'robbing Paul to pay Peter' in that case? :D

But Northern is not 'closing an entire line'. The one mile spur from Marple Wharf Jn to Rose Hill will temporarily have only a daily parliamentary service (see post #78). The Hyde loop is a busy freight route and is most certainly not closing.

The rationale was well explained by @Starmill upthread:
I agree with the principle, but given this is a very obvious case where trains on one route would run empty and trains on another, notably more popular route, would run at overcrowded capacity I suspect that this closure will actually be beneficial to the reputation of the railway.

Principles can be good principles, but sensible people reassess when they see that sticking to a principle results in an inefficient outcome.
 

Bletchleyite

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Well, perhaps 'robbing Paul to pay Peter' in that case? :D

But Northern is not 'closing an entire line'. The one mile spur from Marple Wharf Jn to Rose Hill will temporarily have only a daily parliamentary service (see post #78). The Hyde loop is a busy freight route and is most certainly not closing.
It is being closed for passengers without adequate replacement (other than, due to political pressure, Rose Hill itself). The passengers don't give a stuff if freight still runs on it or not.

I do get the reasoning, but a full RRB to the same frequency as the train service should be required.
 

py_megapixel

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It is being closed for passengers without adequate replacement (other than, due to political pressure, Rose Hill itself). The passengers don't give a stuff if freight still runs on it or not.
Maybe they do... how long before an MP starts pressuring for adding passenger cars to one of the freight trains? :)
 

Rail Ranger

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Been announced today by Stockport Councillor Lisa Smart that West Coast will be operating the Piccadilly-Rose Hill service for a week with funding in principle from Stockport Council.
 

Ianno87

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Been announced today by Stockport Councillor Lisa Smart that West Coast will be operating the Piccadilly-Rose Hill service for a week with funding in principle from Stockport Council.
Article: https://werneth.mycouncillor.org.uk...nd-rail-service-which-northern-plan-to-close/

At an extraordinary meeting of Marple Area Committee last night, Liberal Democrat councillors secured agreement in principle to the council funding the operation of the Marple Rose Hill line to deliver services between Rose Hill, Romiley, Woodley, Hyde Central, Hyde North and Guide Bridge stations using West Coast Railways as the operator as Northern Railway has refused to reconsider the temporary closure of the line from 14th September.

At the meeting, Lib Dem councillors also secured a commitment from Northern Railway’s Regional Director, Christopher Jackson, that the temporary closure is not a pre-cursor to a permanent one, and the line will resume normal operation after 14th December. Mr Jackson also confirmed that the relevant Conservative government minister did have the ability to prevent the line closure, but had chosen not to exercise that power.

Following a Councillor Call for Action initiated by Liberal Democrat Councillor Lisa Smart, the councillors from the Marple and Werneth Area Committees met with representatives from Northern Railway, Transport for Greater Manchester and relevant council officers to discuss the closure, which will see services axed from Rose Hill and Woodley stations and services reduced from Romiley station, as well as affecting services in Hyde and Guide Bridge and further increasing pressure on Marple Station.

The meeting was also attended by the three Chairs of the “Friends of” groups for Romiley, Rose Hill and Marple stations who each made passionate representations against the withdrawal of the service, highlighting the impact it will have on local transport users, and challenged the rationale behind it. Their voices echoed those of the 5,540 people who had signed the Liberal Democrat survey opposing the line closure.

At the end of the meeting councillors resolved to use their local funding powers to run a train service for one week, inspired by a previous initiative by Tim Farron MP in Cumbria, to prove that it can be done and to try to make Northern Rail think again about this closure.

Cllr Lisa Smart, parliamentary spokesperson for Hazel Grove and councillor for Bredbury Green and Romiley, said: “We stand behind our local residents who have once again shown the need for this vital railway service and local Liberal Democrat councillors have acted where Northern Trains and the Conservative government have failed to.

“By using the relatively limited powers available to us we have been able to do what both Northern Trains and the Department of Transport have so far refused to do. We call on Northern Trains and the Conservative government to think again and reinstate this service once the very limited local funding runs out.”
(Interesting that she's taken a photo of herself at the bottom in front of the Network Rail logo...who have naff all to do with this!)
 

Eccles1983

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Have they got clearance from network rail?

It's nothing like the branch line in the lakes, it's trying to weave a service into one of the busiest terminals in the country - one failure and it could prove very very costly for operator or the council.
 

Randomer

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It does seem more likely that the idea is to run a service to embarrass the DFT into forcing Northern into either going through the actual closer procedure or provide an appropriate rail replacement. The idea that Northern can just withdraw a service because it is operationally inconvenient for them just doesn't sit right with me at all.

It would be very interesting to see how much West Coast Railways are charging for this but I suppose it will be commercially sensitive and never released. At least having a couple of weeks lets them gain appropriate route knowledge easier....
 

Llandudno

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This is a great initiative, shame on Northern.

it’s a pity that West Coast couldn’t be allocated a more scenic route and the displaced units operate the Rose Hill branch instead.
 

JonathanH

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How is any of WCRC's rolling stock compliant with the requirements for PRM? Is getting them to provide a service realistic and approved by the ORR post 1 January 2020?
 

Spandau

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Will the West Coast Rose Hill service be free to passengers? I believe there was no mechanism to collect fares when they operated the Windermere branch.

If no ticket is required I imagine there could be some interesting conversations at the Piccadilly gateline!
 

Ianno87

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How much is this costing the council?
Surely it would be cheaper to run a RRB.
If I was a rate-payer in Stockport, I'd certainly be questioning whether "showing up Northern" was really a great use of taxpayer money, to run a train for a grand total of one week.
 

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