Temporary Closure for Rose Hill Marple

[ForTheLoveOf]

This all sounds a bit like when Northern ( or their predecessors) withdrew services to Wedgewood and Barlaston "temporarily". 15 years later there's still no service!

Exactly. Rose Hill Marple isn't some bustling hub but it does a fairly decent trade, having about 200k passengers a year according to the last published statistics. If they can get away with temporarily permanently 'discontinuing' service to somewhere like that, where does it end?

It's a creeping, crawling practice that shouldn't be tolerated. Better to cut the frequency of other lines so that at least some trains serve Rose Hill Marple (or at the very least the soon to be abandoned intermediate stations).

 

[py_megapixel]

This all sounds a bit like when Northern ( or their predecessors) withdrew services to Wedgewood and Barlaston "temporarily". 15 years later there's still no service!

Exactly. Rose Hill Marple isn't some bustling hub but it does a fairly decent trade, having about 200k passengers a year according to the last published statistics. If they can get away with temporarily permanently 'discontinuing' service to somewhere like that, where does it end?

It's a creeping, crawling practice that shouldn't be tolerated. Better to cut the frequency of other lines so that at least some trains serve Rose Hill Marple (or at the very least the soon to be abandoned intermediate stations).

I for one shall be extremely disappointed if there is no service to Rose Hill come December.

Since they aren't providing an RRB I assume it doesn't count as providing a service in the same way that the bus provision to Barlaston does, which should hopefully force them to reintroduce service. But I'm not optimistic.

 

[Llandudno]

And to think all the stick Northern used to get when it was run by Arriva...!

Surely TfGM must provide replacement buses?

 

[py_megapixel]

was run by Arriva...!

Surely TfGM must provide replacement buses?

Why TfGM? Northern are ordinarily responsible for the service!

 

[Llandudno]

Why TfGM? Northern are ordinarily responsible for the service!

Because you couldn’t trust Northern to source buses, they have enough trouble with trains!

 

[Ianno87]

And to think all the stick Northern used to get when it was run by Arriva...!

Surely TfGM must provide replacement buses?

Not TfGM's problem if local bus services still serve the proximity of stations that rail services have been withdrawn from.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

That would be Central Trains, not Northern

Well there was no "Northern" in 2004 but it's the principle not the operator that's the issue here. If Northern are successful in withdrawing services to Rose Hill Marple permanently then what's to stop them trying the same trick on other lightly-used lines such as Sheffield to Cleethorpes via Brigg or Lancaster to Heysham?

 

[SteveM70]

Because you couldn’t trust Northern to source buses, they have enough trouble with trains!

In the Arriva days the problem wasn’t sourcing the buses, it was paying the invoices afterwards, which resulted in companies refusing to deal with them

 

[43096]

I don't believe Northern is technically a franchised operator anymore.

LNER have been awarded a new 3 year direct award, so they do still have contractual agreements with DfT.

 

[jonesy3001]

The 330 from Ashton to Stockport covers most of the route between Hyde north and Woodley.

 

[spargazer]

Styal Station has been is closed temporarily, it is on the Crewe-airport-Piccadilly line, it is again closure by stealth as Cheshire East will be OK with that, it will then become a freight line.

 

[Rail Ranger]

The DfT could ask WCRC to run the Rose Hill service as they did the Windermere branch a couple of years ago.

 

[Class 170101]

It will just take one disabled person who is disadvantaged to make them look very stupid (the road down to the station called Marple is very steep so some wheelchair users will find it difficult). Why no RRB? Coaches, even accessible ones, must be ten a penny at the moment.

I would suggest a RRB or even accessible taxi shuttling between Rose Hill and Romiley plus one of the New Mills services running via Hyde would be better than what they have proposed.

I wouldn't assume RR Buses are available for the same reason train drivers aren't available, either isolated or furloughed. Some bus firms have gone bust as well.

Could the two-hourly New Mills Central - Piccadilly via Bredbury service be diverted via Woodley?
Could the Glossop trains call at Fairfield?
That would just leave Rose Hill without a service.
Has TfGM agreed this change?

Staff training is given as the reason - both of new drivers to replace those leaving/retiring and to release those still to be trained on new types of stock. Clearly this training is not compatible with social distancing so how is Northern going to restart it? And are other TOCs in a similar position?

I read that DfT advised all franchised operators that a full service timetable was to be reintroduced from July 6, but clearly not so in the case of Northern.

Perhaps those drivers that are retiring could be encouraged to stay on for a bit longer in the same way signalling staff and nurse / doctors were?

Ticket acceptance on the 375 and 383/384 buses between Rose Hill and Marple (presumably fully accessible) would strike me as a more reasonable alternative than funding an RRB or taxi to carry maybe one or two passengers an hour.

That assumes the operator agrees but if they are running a reduced service due to drivers isolating then they will have trouble accepting their regular customers never mind ones from trains. Even with a full service social distancing on buses themselves doesn't exactly give you a large capacity.

 

[Starmill]

I think there is a big risk of a collapse in patronage in the long term if there's a three month hiatus for these stations that shortly follows a four month period where the overall use of public transport was subject to government-ordered discouragement. Separately these factors might have dented usage for a couple of years but for many of the locals, imagine if they go nine months without actually using the service? Will they be back at all? It already suffers from no Sunday service and very poor evening service. I don't share concerns of others at the risk that closure might be permanent however. I am sure that the service will be back, but it is a matter of when. I am also sure there's not a much easier way to release driver diagrams. Implementing a seven day service would be very helpful if that would be possible to arrange by May 2021, but again I imagine the money for this won't be forthcoming.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So not just Rose Hill Marple that would no longer be served, but also Woodley, Hyde Central, Hyde North and Fairfield, is that right?

 

[billh]

The 330 from Ashton to Stockport covers most of the route between Hyde north and Woodley.

Aye,it does. But if you thought the train was slow........

 

[Bletchleyite]

So not just Rose Hill Marple that would no longer be served, but also Woodley, Hyde Central, Hyde North and Fairfield, is that right?

Correct, yes. This really seems out of order to me; they should send one of the New Mills services that way instead.

 

[Llandudno]

Is it possible to convert the Rose Hill line to Metrolink in the future?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it possible to convert the Rose Hill line to Metrolink in the future?

It is under consideration.

I wonder if we're going to end up in the position of it not reopening until so converted a few years hence?

 

[Starmill]

So not just Rose Hill Marple that would no longer be served, but also Woodley, Hyde Central, Hyde North and Fairfield, is that right?

If Glossop trains do not have calls at Gorton added, it too will have next to no service. Of course, we don't know how many Glossop trains themselves will be running after mid September. In the base timetable it's not terribly many that do call at Gorton, with a massive gap for about 5 hours interpeak.

 

[Starmill]

Correct, yes. This really seems out of order to me; they should send one of the New Mills services that way instead.

As has been pointed out this wouldn't serve Rose Hill Marple and it would take capacity away from by far the far busier station in the area, Reddish North. Reddish North is nearly 3 times busier than Woodley.

 

[Greybeard33]

It is under consideration.

I wonder if we're going to end up in the position of it not reopening until so converted a few years hence?

Although the TfGM proposal was to run tram-trains to Rose Hill via the Reddish North line, with the New Mills and Sheffield services diverted via Guide Bridge and Woodley. And I expect Covid will have blown the business case out of the water....

 

[HSTEd]

So the DfT have used emergency powers legislation to neuter the closure procedure and give itself the power to close stations at will.

Never saw that coming.

 

[jonesy3001]

Aye,it does. But if you thought the train was slow........

Used to be a good service in the gm buses days, don't know if much has changed and probably roadworks everywhere these days slowing the service down.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It will just take one disabled person who is disadvantaged to make them look very stupid (the road down to the station called Marple is very steep so some wheelchair users will find it difficult). Why no RRB? Coaches, even accessible ones, must be ten a penny at the moment.

Most coach companies have furloughed their drivers and put the coaches “VOR” (Vehicle Off Road) which basically means they are untaxed, uninsured and if leased (as many are) off-lease too. There are depots full of coaches, but they aren’t allowed on the road.
yes, some firms are operating but that is generally because they have contracts that are still running so are busy anyway.
There’s no real appetite to get back to business at the moment, with social distancing in place, coach capacity is low. There are no international tours taking place. UK tours are mainly elderly people who are in the most vulnerable category and shielding and most unlikely to go out. The coach industry has been decimated and it will take some time to fully recover.

 

[Horizon22]

Most coach companies have furloughed their drivers and put the coaches “VOR” (Vehicle Off Road) which basically means they are untaxed, uninsured and if leased (as many are) off-lease too. There are depots full of coaches, but they aren’t allowed on the road.
yes, some firms are operating but that is generally because they have contracts that are still running so are busy anyway.
There’s no real appetite to get back to business at the moment, with social distancing in place, coach capacity is low. There are no international tours taking place. UK tours are mainly elderly people who are in the most vulnerable category and shielding and most unlikely to go out. The coach industry has been decimated and it will take some time to fully recover.

All the more reason that a RRB service and some form of income would be attractive. Heck, Northern/DfT might even be able to get it at a reduced rate.

 

[py_megapixel]

All the more reason that a RRB service and some form of income would be attractive. Heck, Northern/DfT might even be able to get it at a reduced rate.

According to someone posting above, Northern have a reputation for not paying when they are invoiced in retrospect. It probably depends if they have the ability to pay beforehand as no bus company is going to want to bring back drivers from furlough, run for 3 months then find out they aren't getting paid!

 

[Brissle Girl]

An interesting quote from a coach operator in Modern Railways this month, explaining why he won’t be investing in PSVAR compliant vehicles to be able to continue getting rail replacement work. “Am I worried that I won’t get any more phone calls at 04.00 from a rail company that wants to pay £200 for a coach and driver at the drop of a hat? No.”

(His company is described as the mainstay of rail replacement services in North Wales.)

 

[pdeaves]

An interesting quote from a coach operator in Modern Railways this month, explaining why he won’t be investing in PSVAR compliant vehicles to be able to continue getting rail replacement work.

As an aside, I find it interesting that buses must be PSVAR compliant for railway replacement work but not, presumably, for normal work. Why the imbalance? If compliant coaches are necessary in one place, why not elsewhere? Or have I misinterpreted what the quote was really saying?

 

[Bletchleyite]

An interesting quote from a coach operator in Modern Railways this month, explaining why he won’t be investing in PSVAR compliant vehicles to be able to continue getting rail replacement work. “Am I worried that I won’t get any more phone calls at 04.00 from a rail company that wants to pay £200 for a coach and driver at the drop of a hat? No.”

(His company is described as the mainstay of rail replacement services in North Wales.)

Which would beg the question as to why he accepted the business in the first place, as he's not required to accept any business from anyone if he doesn't want to.

Sounds like someone gobbing off (which seems quite common of owners of coach companies for some reason).