Temporary transfer of Turbostars from Chiltern to West Midlands Trains

[Sprinter107]

172103 and 172001 worked 2C44 1436 to DDG 24/9/21 had been held in siding 2 prior to this working.

That day 003 was out too and on the same email of unit swaps so I doubt that unit was misidentified.

I think that must be a error, as 172103 was taken away on a low loader on 7th September, and was unable to work before that.

 

[warwickshire]

103 hasn’t worked & was taken by road from Tyseley a couple of weeks back to have new wheelsets fitted. Not sure where tho.

Interesting dosent surprise me one bit.
When in use on chiltern that one was always in all honestly constantly.
And on the rare occasions it was working.
Always had a loud rattle from the wheelsets at one particular end.
And you could always feel strong knocking from underneath.
And hear it when in motion.
And that was in it's best off health and in service .
Otherwise it was out cold and dead ie engines and power pack always a reqular issue with it.
Sadly something about 172103. Never has been in good health.

 

[Wyrleybart]

103 hasn’t worked & was taken by road from Tyseley a couple of weeks back to have new wheelsets fitted. Not sure where tho.

Is that odd ?
I have often seen a flatbed artic on the M6 with what appears to be sprinter wheelsets on the back. Can't Tyseley do bogie swaps, or is this a Rosco problem, where the Rosco has directed this set to be roaded away ?


Incidentally, should this thread be retitled as I thought the ex Chiltern 172s are not going back

 

[warwickshire]

Is that odd ?
I have often seen a flatbed artic on the M6 with what appears to be sprinter wheelsets on the back. Can't Tyseley do bogie swaps, or is this a Rosco problem, where the Rosco has directed this set to be roaded away ?


Incidentally, should this thread be retitled as I thought the ex Chiltern 172s are not going back

Yes that's correct they are not going back.
They are staying with west Midlands railways.
However good news keeping it brief from a very reliable source off mine.
The mk3 sets are staying 3 diagrams Monday to Friday mainly peak.
With Saturday including during the day.
Hence the 172 to west Midlands.
Whilst maintaince has to be carried out to other units. Major exams.
However that is all on this topic for this thread.
Hence from December 2021.
Will see them permanently transferred to west Midlands railways.
Maybe 172103 might be the first also to come back in west Midlands railways livery.
However somewhere on this forum cannot remember which thread.
Think it was on the chiltern railways shortforms one ie a Twitter message someone had posted with this confirmed.
So interesting to see 172103 upon its return.

 

[43102EMR]

Is that odd ?
I have often seen a flatbed artic on the M6 with what appears to be sprinter wheelsets on the back. Can't Tyseley do bogie swaps, or is this a Rosco problem, where the Rosco has directed this set to be roaded away ?


Incidentally, should this thread be retitled as I thought the ex Chiltern 172s are not going back

I believe they are - per WMR’s Twitter they’re being used “until further notice”, i.e. when the 196s enter service. After which they’ll return to Chiltern

 

[CR165022]

After which they’ll return to Chiltern

Chiltern have confirmed they aren't getting the 172s back

 

[warwickshire]

Chiltern have confirmed they aren't getting the 172s back

That is most true and correct.
Plus it would involve retraining various fitters drivers and guards up on the units again.
100 per cent not returning back.

 

[Pumbaa]

103 is at Doncaster.

 

[172007]

I have heard whispers from managent that the Chiltern 172's are staying. Whether that's a beyond December or permanent I don't know.

 

[swt_passenger]

Perhaps they’ll go to a third operator, ie not going back to Chiltern AND not staying with WMR either…

But the most complicated thing I can think of is conversion to 171s…

 

[172007]

Perhaps they’ll go to a third operator, ie not going back to Chiltern AND not staying with WMR either…

But the most complicated thing I can think of is conversion to 171s…

Ha ha

 

[superalbs]

Perhaps they’ll go to a third operator, ie not going back to Chiltern AND not staying with WMR either…

But the most complicated thing I can think of is conversion to 171s…

As they're so different, maybe they'd have to become 173s.

 

[172007]

As they're so different, maybe they'd have to become 173s.

Well if a lick of paint can turn a class 195 to a class 196 and a class 197 anything is possible.

Nb this is a flippant remark I am sure there are very good technical reasons that all three CAF units have different number series and are no sub classes like a class 150 could have been used.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I am sure there are very good technical reasons that all three CAF units have different number series

195s don't have end gangways and 196s have a different window layout to 197s. Not sure if those are more significant changes than between a 150/1 and 150/2 though.

 

[Class172]

It would be foolish to attempt to extract logic from the recent state of the TOPS class numbering system.

 

[43102EMR]

Chiltern have confirmed they aren't getting the 172s back

Not seen this - was it in a magazine?

 

[Wyrleybart]

It would be foolish to attempt to extract logic from the recent state of the TOPS class numbering system.

Absolutely true

 

[warwickshire]

Not seen this - was it in a magazine?

Please see the thread chiltern running 3 cars in the rush hour under the alterations diagrams and timetables section this forum
Post 10.
Twitter tweet is on there confirmed by chiltern railways themselves.
In confirmed statement on its Twitter feed.

 

[CR165022]

Not seen this - was it in a magazine?

https://twitter.com/chilternrailway/status/1441291745971499011

 

[newtownmgr]

Perhaps they’ll go to a third operator, ie not going back to Chiltern AND not staying with WMR either…

But the most complicated thing I can think of is conversion to 171s…

If they are not going back then they will stay with WMT! The ROSCO has stated they would prefer all the 172’s with a single company otherwise it will create small non standard fleets. They have a ZF mechanical gearbox so different to all other turbo stars. Makes maintenance & therefore reliability & cost easier if all with the same operator. Keeping them will ultimately allow the 196’s to be kept off the snow hill lines.

 

[Mikey C]

Chiltern might not be keen on the 172s, but I'm surprised they can permanently lose their capacity, when 170s, which they do want, are so much in demand

 

[Wyrleybart]

Chiltern might not be keen on the 172s, but I'm surprised they can permanently lose their capacity, when 170s, which they do want, are so much in demand

Kinda depends on what the DfT think Chiltern need rather than the Chiltern management want - and that is not disrespectful to Chiltern Management. Covid has radically altered the structure of the railway industry in terms of who calls the tunes.

 

[172007]

Kinda depends on what the DfT think Chiltern need rather than the Chiltern management want - and that is not disrespectful to Chiltern Management. Covid has radically altered the structure of the railway industry in terms of who calls the tunes.

Covid has radically changed the industry. Unless WMT gets more work for the 172's then once all the maintenance backlog has been sorted there will be too many units there.

 

[Mollman]

Covid has radically changed the industry. Unless WMT gets more work for the 172's then once all the maintenance backlog has been sorted there will be too many units there.

I think TfWM can find work for them given their ambitions for Camp Hill and Walsall - Washwood Heath (sorry can't remember its official title) lines

 

[Class172]

Kinda depends on what the DfT think Chiltern need rather than the Chiltern management want - and that is not disrespectful to Chiltern Management. Covid has radically altered the structure of the railway industry in terms of who calls the tunes.

I wouldn't be suprised if the effect of Covid upon passenger numbers is larger for Chiltern than WMT, given commuting to London would previously have provided much of the peak demand for Chiltern (yes Birmingham has a commuter market but it won't be as significant as London). As such I can see the justification for a reduction of fleet size there, particularly as other posters have mentioned there is likely to be a use for the 172/1s at WMT.

 

[Mikey C]

I wouldn't be suprised if the effect of Covid upon passenger numbers is larger for Chiltern than WMT, given commuting to London would previously have provided much of the peak demand for Chiltern (yes Birmingham has a commuter market but it won't be as significant as London). As such I can see the justification for a reduction of fleet size there, particularly as other posters have mentioned there is likely to be a use for the 172/1s at WMT.

Certainly, longer distance commuting from the leafy commuter towns has been significantly affected by working from home, and there is likely to be a permanent impact, with many people continuing to work from home for at least 1 or 2 days a week.

 

[Liam L]

103 hasn’t worked & was taken by road from Tyseley a couple of weeks back to have new wheelsets fitted. Not sure where tho.

Explains why I haven’t seen it on Tyseley as of late

 

[Nova1]

So I was just looking at some of my pictures and noticed something in the cab. It looks a little bit like the seating in the cab has the new style WMR seat pattern. This would seem a little strange to me especially as some of the refurbed WMR units are still running around with LM seats in the cabs.

 

[43102EMR]

So I was just looking at some of my pictures and noticed something in the cab. It looks a little bit like the seating in the cab has the new style WMR seat pattern. This would seem a little strange to me especially as some of the refurbed WMR units are still running around with LM seats in the cabs.

Knowing the Chiltern 172s, the moquette was probably in such a state that WMR decided to replace it - I think 104 has DLR moquette in its cab…

 

[aleggatta]

It’s quite normal for a drivers seat to be swapped out with whatever is in stock at the depot, as long as it’s the correct style of seat they don’t care what the fabric is covering the seat. It’s not a passenger area so it’s not considered an issue and it’s quite common for a defective drivers seat to stop a whole unit going in service