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Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by nlogax, 23 Apr 2015.
Well, the honestly is refreshing..
http://trib.al/bK7XnbF (Guardian link)
Just came across this from the Guardian Transport for London chief: commuter trains into capital are 'sh*t'
Apprently South West Trains does this
He also said this about Network Rail Mark Carne
Now I think Southeastern are sh*t too, however I can't help but think he is just flexing his muscles to get the suburbans. Also his timing isn't brilliant as London Underground have been falling apart over the last week or two.
Anyway, what does everyone think of this?
Link here: (edit - this link was broken by the swear filter, but this link works: http://trib.al/bK7XnbF )
Full interview with Management Today here: http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/news/1343914/sir-peter-hendy-man-keeps-london-move/
I certainly don't think that's universally true - I've never heard such remarks about Chiltern for example - but given he travels on Southeastern, and given the terrible attitudes that I have witnessed, it's understandable. But it's not right to tar other operators with the same brush.
I've witnessed people be treated badly on Southeastern not just if they "simply made mistakes with their tickets" but if their tickets are entirely valid.
He's being a bit unfair.
It's only like that on SouthEastern, Southern, London Midland, Great Northern and Thameslink.
I wonder what the link is? hock:
He has a point about this:
...although that attitude doesn't seem to have extended into those bits of TfL that are contracted out. They're not that gentle on DLR, Overground or Tramlink.
I have to say that South West Trains and their staff are very good and do very well with the resources that they have. Yes I have to stand in the morning but there will never be a realistic solution to this.
They're part state run
He did not say all commuter trains into the capital are 's**t' - it's worth looking at the comments in their original context:
I doubt you'd find many commuters arguing with that.
"If you make a mistake on your oyster card on the tube, we’ll refund it. On South West Trains, they’ll fine you. That’s a big philosophical difference.”
Ah - so does that mean they'll be taking all those blue penalty fare signs down on the tube now? The ones that mention failing to touch in?
AIUI, if LU revenue protection were to find you on the tube without touching in you get PF'd just like on SWT.
Of course, Mr Hendy has a vested interest, taking over more suburban services boosts the size of the TfL empire.
I don't see what TfL would do differently on, say, the Moorgate to Welwyn/Hertford services. On London Overground I'm not convinced many of the station staff add that much value, their knowledge of the railway and ticketing always seems poor. London Overground may currently have the novelty of new trains, but will they still have the same novelty in 30 years?
I would rather keen the suburban services run by the TOCs. Creating artificial divisions will not benefit anyone, especially those travelling from outside London.
Then you don't remember what a decrepid place the NLL and the GOBLIN was when the stations were unstaffed.
Erm.....has he never been on one of his own tube trains?!
The link is this:
I think that may be may favourite link to a news article ever
I think his comments are appalling and just a thinly veiled attempt to boost TfL's chances of getting control of more 'big railway' operations.
I use Southeastern quite a bit and whilst they could obviously be better they are not that bad considering the restraints they have to work within.
As for gestapo like inspectors.................are those TfL employ any different?
Lets face it he is pushing for TfL to take over the Metro routes - nothing more nothing less.
I agree, I commuted on them for a year and still make similar journeys with them and I've never really had a problem with them. Thing's aren't perfect but I never experienced anything that he's pointed out in that article. Good point about the standing as well.
I am afraid I have to agree this is political grandstanding on behalf of Boris Johnson.
I am surprised in a way that Boris is happy to control transport given his political masters at No.10 want as much private control and as little public control as possible.
Anyone want to try to get to High Barnet on a Z1 ticket, then demand a refund for the mistake? You can use this article as proof - "but your boss says so!"
He probably tried to use his staff pass at clapham junction only to be given a load of abuse by swt staff.
I definitely think LO will spread out in all directions, and with ever more simple fares the issues with poor knowledge by staff will become more irrelevant as everyone will be encouraged to use an Oyster (or replacement as and when) or CPC. Either way, the need to deal with regular tickets must be down to become unnecessary in the years ahead.
If South Eastern fail to issue a writ for libel, does that mean they agree their TOC is s**t and run like the Wild West?
Go on, sue and be damned!
TfL run a fairly simple rail system which while usually very good is not perfect and has certainly had problems in the past with major engineering work going seriously over time - remember the Jubilee line upgrades a few years ago.
The national rail network is heavily impacted by influential voices that prevent simplification of services in south and south east London which would increase frequency but also journey times and the need to change. It is no secret that TfL prefers greater standardisation of stopping patterns and would want services on each line to serve one central London terminal to reduce conflicts and increase frequencies. The SRA did a major consultation on the issue and commuters said they preferred present system. However, growing passenger demand may mean in future that the only way to increase capacity is to move towards the TfL model.
I've used South Eastern services the last two Saturdays and found the trains and service excellent. (St.Pancras to Gravesend and St.Pancras to Ashford and back)
'Senior public official uses his privileged access to the media to vent spleen, and air personal hobby horses.'
We all like a rant now and again, but when the grande fromages do it, I find it rather unbecoming.
I wonder if, like many others, he tried talking to Southeastern, only to realise that there is absolutely no reasoning with them, and they won't even accept they're wrong when they're blatantly wrong. I'm even aware of a case which took about 2 years to resolve, and they still haven't learnt learnt from those mistakes, defiantly charging people in similar circumstances. There's only so much claptrap and bad treatment people can take from Southeastern.
Still, I don't think it helps swearing like that, but I can understand how frustrating it must be if you witness injustices at the hands of Southeastern on a regular basis, and repeated failures to address those injustices.
I think the mistake that he is referring to is forgetting to touch in at an ungated station and getting hit for a maximum fare when you touch out. I do agree that if checked by an RPI on the Underground train in that circumstance then you will probably get a PF. I also don't ever recall seeing RPIs on an Underground train, they are usually at stations.
And with apologies to anyone who can guess what I'm about to say next, Southeastern have previous history of extremely heavy handed tactics with Oyster cards. It runs something like this:
Long standing commuter has had Oyster card with travelcard season since long before 2010.
In 2010 the concept of the OEP was introduced. Existing Oyster card holders were not contacted to explain the new requirement and virtually no posters were put up at stations.
The idea was to protect revenue at ungated NR stations in the outer zones where people could walk out without paying after using their travelcard for the first bit of the journey.
You had to put an OEP on your Oyster card before commencing a journey from within your zones to outside of those zones. This allowed a maximum fare to be charged on entry which would only be adjusted when you touch out.
While a messy solution, it did do what was intended, but huge swathes of regular commuters had no idea what they were expected to do.
Tube/DLR users were all aware that if they touched in at the start and out at the end they'd be charged the correct extension fare. The same also happened on National Rail, whether or not the OEP was set. All the OEP did was protect revenue if you forgot to touch out beyond your zones.
About a year after the introduction of OEPs TOCs abandoned their lenient stance and started penalty faring people who needed OEPs and didn't have them. Tough if you'd never been told before.
Southeastern took this a stage further. They set the barriers at their fully gated zone 1 stations to reject anyone with a travelcard without zone 1 and no OEP set. When the passenger received seek assistance they were directed to a waiting RPI to be hit with a PF.
But remember, what the passenger was trying to do would have resulted in the correct fare being charged. There was ABSOLUTELY NO ATTEMPT TO EVADE THE FARE.
After a few months of this TfL decided Southeastern had brought the OEP system into disrepute and they announced the scrapping of the OEP in May 2011. Of course they didn't publicly blame Southeastern, but they didn't have to.
And the bit which really made my blood boil. After introducing this new system with little to no publicity for existing Oyster Card holders, Every station displayed prominient posters telling people that they would no longer need to set OEPs after the date in May. This was the first that loads of commuters had ever heard of the OEP.
I'm just waiting for the WA and Crossrail take over so I can grab my popcorn and watch it all go horribly wrong and for TFL to get some stick from the punters for a change
South Eastern certainly isn't as good now that they've gotten rid of the buffet trolley.
Had a very sombre trip up to Charing Cross last week.
They are so heavy-handed it took them four years to catch that bloke from Stonegate.
The article is total political dross of the highest degree, designed into drumming up support for LO taking over more rail services (which for the record I am very strongly against)
That's the thing. They are so heavy handed with people who make mistakes (or people who have valid tickets that they don't like) and so desperate to go for easy targets, that they don't actually catch the real criminals!
I refer you to this:
So, of course it took them 4 years to catch that bloke from Stonegate!