TfL Rail - confusing map

[ess]

Here's the new timetable for Paddington to Heathrow

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/paddington-heathrow-terminal-4-20-may-8-december-2018.pdf

Why oh why oh why did they put Paddington zone 1 on the left and Heathrow zone 6 on the right of the line diagram on page 1?

Any 'tube' map will have Heathrow zone 6 on the left (because it's west of Paddington which is the station furthest East). It makes it really confusing.

 

[bb21]

Agreed re: line direction. Totally against normal layout on a tube map.

There is a typo in the timetable, in that SX westbound, the 0811 at Hayes & Harlington should read 0711.

 

[mmh]

Dear me, that's awful. I'm probably misremembering, but isn't there also an Underground line that on the individual line maps gets it either "wrong" or perhaps has mirror versions on different sides of the cars which don't match the directions? The Victoria line maybe? (Thinking about this I wouldn't be surprised if I've completely imagined it!)

 

[alxndr]

It sort of makes sense when thinking of it as Paddington --> Heathrow as we read left to right, but in the context of geography it doesn't make sense.

 

[maniacmartin]

mmh is correct regarding the Victoria line. The line car diagrams have Walthamstow Ctk on the left, despite it being the most easterly station. I believe that this is because TfL class a line as either North-South or East-West, and for N-S lines, the most northern station is put on the left.

 

[whhistle]

Have you asked TfL?

 

[jon0844]

Have you asked TfL?

They'll probably reply with a photo of the mayor and a statement about reinvesting their profits.

Until then, just turn it upside down.

 

[centraltrains]

"Special pay as you go fares apply on Tfl Rail services to/from Heathrow"
Does this mean a Z1-6 Travel card would be valid as not PAYG?

 

[700007]

They'll probably reply with a photo of the mayor and a statement about reinvesting their profits.

This comment made my morning because of how stupidly true it is.

 

[berneyarms]

"Special pay as you go fares apply on Tfl Rail services to/from Heathrow"
Does this mean a Z1-6 Travel card would be valid as not PAYG?

Higher single fares will apply for travel to/from Heathrow.

However Zone 1-6 travelcards and zone 6 capping for oyster and contactless will apply - therefore the impact of the higher single fares will be limited for regular commuters/return travellers.

 

[pdeaves]

The first train of the day out of Heathrow is 'Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays only'. Why do they have an aversion to days starting with T? I am sure there is a good reason somewhere!

 

[DelW]

Dear me, that's awful. I'm probably misremembering, but isn't there also an Underground line that on the individual line maps gets it either "wrong" or perhaps has mirror versions on different sides of the cars which don't match the directions? The Victoria line maybe? (Thinking about this I wouldn't be surprised if I've completely imagined it!)

At one time (and possibly still) the in-train line diagrams on at least some Underground lines were mirror-image on opposite sides of the car. The idea was that the end station on each diagram was closest to that end station on the track (not sure how well I've explained that ).

So the diagram in the link would be appropriate for an in-train diagram on the south side of the coach, as when you're looking at that, you'd be facing south with Paddington to your left and Heathrow to your right.

Of course it only works for trains which stay one way round, but that does apply to Heathrow Connect trains in normal service. It wouldn't work for the Piccadilly line though.

 

[Trailfinder]

The major criticism I have about the map, apart from the east-west orientation, is that it does not show the line from T2/3 to T5 - T5 does not get a mention in the whole document. It should show the connection as a 'Free inter-terminal transfer' if TfL does not want to put Hex.

Another omission is that travel between T2/3 and T4 is free, as it is all within the Heathrow Free Travel Zone. (Incidentally, the best and quickest way to transfer between T4 and T5 is to catch the 482 or 490 bus (also free) from outside the arrivals area of each terminal.

If there is a problem on the T4 branch, the TfL Rail service will have to operate to T5 to reverse.

Also, one of the problems of the TfL Rail service is that there is no longer guaranteed to be a unit at Heathrow to operate a shuttle service between T2/3 and T4 if there is a problem out on the GWML and trains cannot reach Heathrow.

 

[pdeaves]

Another omission is that travel between T2/3 and T4 is free, as it is all within the Heathrow Free Travel Zone.

I suppose one could argue that this falls within the 'special fare' but I agree that it is not clear. With regard to T5, hopefully TfL will see sense and acknowledge that other operations exist (ha, ha, I won't hold my breath)

 

[matt_world2004]

The first train of the day out of Heathrow is 'Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays only'. Why do they have an aversion to days starting with T? I am sure there is a good reason somewhere!

Real time trains show a train departing Tuesday and Thursday too. I suspect Tuesday and Thursday it's a 345 however they don't want to timetable it incase it doesn't run,

 

[Joe Paxton]

The major criticism I have about the map, apart from the east-west orientation, is that it does not show the line from T2/3 to T5 - T5 does not get a mention in the whole document. It should show the connection as a 'Free inter-terminal transfer' if TfL does not want to put Hex.

People are possibly reading too much into what is a simple line diagram attached to a timetable. However I agree that T5 should be mentioned.

Another omission is that travel between T2/3 and T4 is free, as it is all within the Heathrow Free Travel Zone. ...

For what it's worth the line diagrams displayed inside Piccadilly line train cars do not show this either. I think there's a danger of information overload.

 

[JaJaWa]

The mentioned issued RE orientation and Terminal 5 interchange have been fixed on the on-train maps.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-rail-map.pdf

 

[Mojo]

I think in the context of displaying a Timetable having Paddington at the start of the route makes sense as that it how you would read it.

As posted above, for the in-car diagrams, for LU lines that run wholly Westbound/Eastbound (Piccadilly, District, Hammersmith, Central, Waterloo/City) West is always on the left hand side and for those that change direction along the line (Met, Jubilee) the same pattern is followed, with North on the left hand side.

 

[reytomas1228]

This is relatively minor compared to the other flaws mentioned, but if the 345's are not planned to run to Heathrow starting on the 20th, the blue wheelchair blobs shown on the Heathrow stations are not accurate since the 360's do not have level boarding. Does anyone know approximately when 345's will be able to run the full route?

 

[Trailfinder]

The 360s do have level boarding at Heathrow.

 

[700007]

This is relatively minor compared to the other flaws mentioned, but if the 345's are not planned to run to Heathrow starting on the 20th, the blue wheelchair blobs shown on the Heathrow stations are not accurate since the 360's do not have level boarding. Does anyone know approximately when 345's will be able to run the full route?

At this rate the next timetable change.

 

[JaJaWa]

The 360s do have level boarding at Heathrow.

I thought it’s the opposite - 360s do but 345s won’t.

 

[Joe Paxton]

"Special pay as you go fares apply on Tfl Rail services to/from Heathrow"
Does this mean a Z1-6 Travel card would be valid as not PAYG?

Higher single fares will apply for travel to/from Heathrow.

However Zone 1-6 travelcards and zone 6 capping for oyster and contactless will apply - therefore the impact of the higher single fares will be limited for regular commuters/return travellers.

One should perhaps add day return travellers!

Given that Heathrow Airport Ltd were always going to insist on some sort of premium fare for Crossrail passengers because they own the infrastructure (the line & tunnels from the GWML and the Heathrow stations themselves), I think by doing this TfL have managed to reach a fare enough compromise here. (Sorry!)

 

[reytomas1228]

The 360s do have level boarding at Heathrow.

Looking at this video (starting at 55 s) at Terminal 4, you can see that the train floor is not actually level with the platform. What I though was that the 345's would have a lower floor, like the Heathrow Express rolling stock, to allow level boarding.

 

[Taunton]

The timetable intervals to be the same as the present one. Which ironically makes the 30 minute service between Central London and Heathrow Airport, including at peak periods, the least frequent service on the whole of TfL's rail network.

 

[RDWRER]

Was I wrong in thinking that two services per hour will carry on to T5? Or is this not happening until the full line opens?

This timetable shows two services per hour running to T4 (The :02 and :32 services from Paddington)? These services currently run to Terminal 5 under the Connect.

 

[matt_world2004]

The timetable intervals to be the same as the present one. Which ironically makes the 30 minute service between Central London and Heathrow Airport, including at peak periods, the least frequent service on the whole of TfL's rail network.

Chesham is once every 30 minutes.

 

[Domh245]

Was I wrong in thinking that two services per hour will carry on to T5? Or is this not happening until the full line opens?

This timetable shows two services per hour running to T4 (The :02 and :32 services from Paddington)? These services currently run to Terminal 5 under the Connect.

That might be a result of the fact that 345s can't operate to Heathrow yet, and so they're stuck with the existing Heathrow connect setup in terms of stock and paths, which don't allow extensions to T5. Once the 345s are sorted, they'll have enough stock to start extending things to T5

 

[TheDavibob]

Chesham is once every 30 minutes.

As is Romford-Upminster (and as will Maidenhead-Reading). Surprisingly thin TfL frequencies at the extremities aren't that rare, though they do make a mockery of the "tube" map to some extent.

 

[RDWRER]

That might be a result of the fact that 345s can't operate to Heathrow yet, and so they're stuck with the existing Heathrow connect setup in terms of stock and paths, which don't allow extensions to T5. Once the 345s are sorted, they'll have enough stock to start extending things to T5

Interesting - I've not been keeping up to date with news on the 345s - what is the reason they can't operate to Heathrow yet?

EDIT: I've just read that it's to do with signalling issues/ETCS etc.

It's a shame that from the 20th, despite the route and rolling stock being exactly the same, T5 will lose the direct service just because the operator is changing.