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TfL Rail: Early commencement of Thames Valley services

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paulravuslante

paulravuslante

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As of 25/11/19 TfL Rail will take over the operation of 6 services from GWR.

Attached a screenshot of one service as proof times are now public.

The services will be:
9P17 0732 Reading to Paddington
9R20 0843 Paddington to Reading
9P28 0948 Reading to Paddington
9N92 1656 Paddington to Maidenhead
9P68 1742 Maidenhead to Paddington
9R63 1842 Paddington to Reading

There are ECS positioning moves from / to Maidenhead / OOC also.
 

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TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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This is strange. Are you sure this is the case? Realtime Trains is a rather unreliable website at the best of times, this may be a mistake? It used to show Thameslink services from Guildford...
 
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yorkie

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TT-ONR-NRN said:
This is strange. Are you sure this is the case? Realtime Trains is a rather unreliable website at the best of times, this may be a mistake?
Click to expand...
Surely open data sites just show the services that are in the open data feed.
TT-ONR-NRN said:
It used to show Thameslink services from Guildford...
Click to expand...
GTR do operate from Guildford and their planners may not have selected the correct 'brand' for the service; it's still a GTR operated service though.
 
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swt_passenger

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TT-ONR-NRN said:
This is strange. Are you sure this is the case? Realtime Trains is a rather unreliable website at the best of times, this may be a mistake? It used to show Thameslink services from Guildford...
Click to expand...
Yes it seems true, it was first discussed last week in the Crossrail delays thread here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-sometime-in-2021.169160/page-44#post-4289389

Then if you check a listing of the day’s services in RTT detailed mode with the CANcelled option set you’ll see the equivalent GW operated service at the same time has been replaced.
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

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Wow, okay then! With 345s I’m guessing, vice usual operation of the Great Western Railway 387 diagrams but just calling those particular services TFL?
 
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Tom

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TT-ONR-NRN said:
This is strange. Are you sure this is the case? Realtime Trains is a rather unreliable website at the best of times, this may be a mistake? It used to show Thameslink services from Guildford...
Click to expand...
As @yorkie says, RTT shows what is in the open data feeds which are in practice near enough the same as the internal industry feeds.

A confusion between Southern/Thameslink services is more easily explained due to the way the operator code is determined as it is, ultimately, the same basic operator (GTR). An operator code is created in a schedule, in the timetable data exchange format, by deriving it from the Train Service Code (an 8 digit number) and a mapping exists for this between that code and the two character operator code. I can't remember which one was wrong for this but from memory the TSC had an incorrect mapping to TL, rather than the train having an incorrect service code.

These services have been in the system since Tuesday night last week.
 
Wilts Wanderer

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It would seem to be a ‘soft start’ so that Monday 16th December morning peak isn’t the first time MTR drivers are driving passenger trains between Reading and Paddington. Would seem to be a very sensible decision IMHO.
 
Chris125

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Any idea if these will be announced at stations and on-board as GWR, TfL Rail or a confusing combination of both/nothing?
 
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goldenarrow

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If I recall correctly, 345011 is a RLU given that it has operated on the Shenfield Metro. Is FLU operation in service still someway off?
 
kevin_roche

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paulravuslante said:
Yes, still quite a few software glitches on FLUs. 7 cars have been planned for the December launch for the last few months.
Click to expand...

Presumably using TPWS and AWS in standalone mode rather than running under ETCS Level 0. Anyone know for sure?
 
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JN114

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Infrastructure isn’t there on the Mainline for ETCS - only on the Heathrow branch (and not yet signed off for passenger use there either otherwise we’d have 345s on the connects).
 
I

II

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paulravuslante said:
Yes, still quite a few software glitches on FLUs. 7 cars have been planned for the December launch for the last few months.
Click to expand...

Though several 9-car services have run in public service over the last few months - usually on Sunday's.
 
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matt_world2004

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Briefings have gone out to the customer service people at TfL that these are not "TfL" services for the purposes of ticketing. This has resulted in all TfL rail west services disappearing off journey planner.
 
MikeWh

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matt_world2004 said:
Briefings have gone out to the customer service people at TfL that these are not "TfL" services for the purposes of ticketing. This has resulted in all TfL rail west services disappearing off journey planner.
Click to expand...
Correct. According to the Press Office the trains are being run by TfL on behalf of GWR with all the existing ticketing arrangements in place.
 
paulravuslante

paulravuslante

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matt_world2004 said:
The TfL rail one, I unticked national rail but kept TfL rail ticked then did a mock journey plan from Paddington to Hayes and it gave me this roundabout route via northolt
Click to expand...
Interesting.... checking with that journey planner, TfL Rail services on the east side seem to be classed with their mode as TfL Rail (Blue Roundel).
However those services on the west side are classed as National Rail services (red double arrow symbol).
The GWR (TfL) services are still in there as TfL Rail though.
 
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J

JWK

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Chris125 said:
Any idea if these will be announced at stations and on-board as GWR, TfL Rail or a confusing combination of both/nothing?
Click to expand...
At Ealing Broadway this evening, 9R63 was announced (manually) as ‘The Great Western Railway service to Reading, operated by TfL Rail.’
 
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kevin_roche said:
Presumably using TPWS and AWS in standalone mode rather than running under ETCS Level 0. Anyone know for sure?
Click to expand...

JN114 said:
Infrastructure isn’t there on the Mainline for ETCS - only on the Heathrow branch (and not yet signed off for passenger use there either otherwise we’d have 345s on the connects).
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the Reduced Length Units (7-cars) are running an older build of software that only supports TPWS+AWS - it does not implement ETCS so cannot run in Heathrow tunnels. TPWS+AWS are not installed there and aren't going to be.

The Full Length Units (9-car) run ETCS as their primary signalling system, with a fallback to TPWS+AWS as Level NTC (National Traffic Control) in sections where ETCS is not installed: Reading to Paddington and Liverpool Street to Shenfield. This software isn't working reliably yet, so 9-cars can't run in service.

Originally the Crossrail project included installing ETCS on the Great Western Main Line as far as Reading. However that was descoped. It's now part of the general Digital Railway project and I don't think there's a set date.

Heathrow's tunnels may still depend on getting Heathrow Express stock upgraded for ETCS. Siemens are working on a first-in-class install on the 387s.

The third signalling system, used in the tunnel, is CBTC. This is actually a description, not a name - it stands for Communication-Based Train Control. I believe the system in use is Siemens Trainguard. I don't know whether this is their ETCS product running at Level 3 or a legacy one. To begin with, it was considered that ETCS L3 wasn't ready for this application, but Thameslink are now running that through their core.
 
paulravuslante

paulravuslante

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Occtraveller said:
My understanding is that the Reduced Length Units (7-cars) are running an older build of software that only supports TPWS+AWS - it does not implement ETCS so cannot run in Heathrow tunnels. TPWS+AWS are not installed there and aren't going to be.

The Full Length Units (9-car) run ETCS as their primary signalling system, with a fallback to TPWS+AWS as Level NTC (National Traffic Control) in sections where ETCS is not installed: Reading to Paddington and Liverpool Street to Shenfield. This software isn't working reliably yet, so 9-cars can't run in service.

Originally the Crossrail project included installing ETCS on the Great Western Main Line as far as Reading. However that was descoped. It's now part of the general Digital Railway project and I don't think there's a set date.

Heathrow's tunnels may still depend on getting Heathrow Express stock upgraded for ETCS. Siemens are working on a first-in-class install on the 387s.

The third signalling system, used in the tunnel, is CBTC. This is actually a description, not a name - it stands for Communication-Based Train Control. I believe the system in use is Siemens Trainguard. I don't know whether this is their ETCS product running at Level 3 or a legacy one. To begin with, it was considered that ETCS L3 wasn't ready for this application, but Thameslink are now running that through their core.
Click to expand...
Pretty much on the ball but as mentioned previously 9 cars can run in service (as they do to Hayes on Sundays / weekday evenings) albeit fairly unreliably.
 
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JN114

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Heathrow branch does have AWS, just no TPWS.

GWML ETCS overlay we’ve been told is coming soon - possibly as early as Easter 2020 for Acton - Airport Jn.
 
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