TFL Rail - Reason for continued reduction in service in West (Paddington) compared to East (Liverpool Street)

[itfcfan]

The reductions in service due to Covid-19 are understandable. However, the TFL have said they've returned to a "Saturday" level of service across their network. It seems TFL Rail (West) services from Paddington have not reached Saturday levels while TFL Rail (East) services from Liverpool Street have. This is not a complaint!

I'm interested to understand what the reasons behind this are?

• Is this continued reduction to allow continued testing to of class 345s to Heathrow?
• Is it a restriction due to lack of trains or drivers?
• Is it demand related (i.e. TFL see less demand on TFL Rail West)?

To clarify, I'm comparing the following services:

Liverpool Street - Maryland (- Shenfield)
https://traintimes.org.uk/lst/myl?changes=0
Currently 6tph to Shenfield (checking this afternoon - a weekday off-peak). I believe this is the pre-covid normal level.

Paddington - West Ealing (- Hayes & Harlington / Heathrow)
https://traintimes.org.uk/pad/wea?changes=0
Currently 2tph to Heathrow (checking this afternoon - a weekday off-peak). Normal pre-covid levels would be 4tph (2x Heathrow, 2x Hayes & Harlington terminators)

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Outside of the peaks the demand is not there. Spent time at Hanwell this morning, very few passengers.

 

[JonathanH]

The reductions in service due to Covid-19 are understandable. However, the TFL have said they've returned to a "Saturday" level of service across their network. It seems TFL Rail (West) services from Paddington have not reached Saturday levels while TFL Rail (East) services from Liverpool Street have. This is not a complaint!

I'm interested to understand what the reasons behind this are?

• Is this continued reduction to allow continued testing to of class 345s to Heathrow?
• Is it a restriction due to lack of trains or drivers?
• Is it demand related (i.e. TFL see less demand on TFL Rail West)?

In theory, on the west side, TfL Rail should be running 4tph to Heathrow Terminal 4 now (from 18 May) and 2tph to Reading (4tph peaks). They are running the full service to Reading and half-hourly to Heathrow.

Heathrow Terminal 4 is shut which means they can't run services there and are instead running to Terminal 5.

They are still using 360s on the Heathrow services as 345s can't yet be used. They only have enough 360s to run half-hourly and have to take Heathrow Express into account when planning platform occupancy.

It appears that they have chosen not to run Hayes shuttles.

As you note, there is still daily empty 345 running to Heathrow.

 

[Bald Rick]

Entirely demand related.

 

[JonathanH]

Entirely demand related.

Are you indicating that TfL Rail could already be running 9-car 345s to Heathrow every 15 minutes if they wanted to but are keeping the 360s on because they more closely match demand?

 

[matt_world2004]

There are station capacity issues at Hayes because only one entrance at station road is open. This means passengers for three in service platforms are having to enter and exit using one tiny stairwell . So they probably want to avoid trains terminating at Hayes and large amounts of passengers getting the 140 outside

 

[Bald Rick]

Are you indicating that TfL Rail could already be running 9-car 345s to Heathrow every 15 minutes if they wanted to but are keeping the 360s on because they more closely match demand?

Ah. I didn’t read your post. Apologies.

However yours might need to be amended very soon!

 

[itfcfan]

Ah. I didn’t read your post. Apologies.

However yours might need to be amended very soon!

That sounds hopeful(!) Are the barriers to class 345 running to Heathrow the kinds of things that could be removed within days or are we still a week or more away from that being likely?

 

[ValleyLines142]

There are station capacity issues at Hayes because only one entrance at station road is open. This means passengers for three in service platforms are having to enter and exit using one tiny stairwell . So they probably want to avoid trains terminating at Hayes and large amounts of passengers getting the 140 outside

The 140 doesn't run to Heathrow anymore.

 

[swt_passenger]

That sounds hopeful(!) Are the barriers to class 345 running to Heathrow the kinds of things that could be removed within days or are we still a week or more away from that being likely?

There’s a whole thread somewhere which has mainly been discussing the problems with Heathrow Branch signalling for 345s. It’s been running for years, but approval is supposed to be imminent:

Class 345 progress

According to Richard Clinnick in RAIL 905, the 345s have been cleared for service to Heathrow with the ETCS Level 2 overlay system. Well yes, subject to the limitations in the document linked in message 3,301 above. It isn't going to happen just yet.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[matt_world2004]

The 140 doesn't run to Heathrow anymore.

X140 does.

 

[ValleyLines142]

X140 does.

I was gonna say. Not sure how frequently it's running at the moment.

 

[matt_world2004]

I was gonna say. Not sure how frequently it's running at the moment.

278 does too but it is likely that the majority of passengers would pile into an X140 given the perceived speed advantage

 

[matt_world2004]

Citymapper has a full service running from Saturday although returning to terminal 4 instead of terminal 5 so it might be the updated timetable hasn't been included yet

 

[JonathanH]

Citymapper has a full service running from Saturday although returning to terminal 4 instead of terminal 5 so it might be the updated timetable hasn't been included yet

Still only half-hourly though.

Presumably that will change if Terminal 4 isn't open.

 

[matt_world2004]

Still only half-hourly though.

Presumably that will change if Terminal 4 isn't open.

Showing as every 15 minutes my end at XX: 10, XX:24,XX:40,XX:54 past the hour from Hayes to terminal 4

 

[Lewlew]

Showing as every 15 minutes my end at XX: 10, XX:24,XX:40,XX:54 past the hour from Hayes to terminal 4

National Rail are saying that timetables from Saturday 30th may not be available and subject to change. Citymapper are good but won't always get all the information from TOCs.

 

[itfcfan]

Showing as every 15 minutes my end at XX: 10, XX:24,XX:40,XX:54 past the hour from Hayes to terminal 4

This timetable has been in the system since 18th May but before the start of each week the "WTT" entries have been updated to "VAR" entries (using realtimetrains.co.uk as a guide) which only provide 2tph. Hopefully this will change soon and the 4tph will actually take effect, but the timetable shown for future weeks can't be relied on for the moment.

 

[JonathanH]

Looks like the timetables have now been switched to indicate that 360s and 2tph continue (ie the empty workings for the three Heathrow diagrams come from Heathrow Express depot rather than the Crossrail depot) for the next week.

Presumably this process will continue each week until they are ready to run 345s.

At the moment, Heathrow Express and TfL Rail are each running 2tph to Heathrow Terminal 5 and Heathrow Terminal 4 is shut. TfL Rail are running with a 16 minute dwell at Heathrow Terminal 5 and Heathrow Express a 26 minute dwell. With those timetables, and only one Airport terminal station open, there doesn't appear to be any scope to get a 4tph TfL Rail service to the Airport.

 

[coppercapped]

Looks like the timetables have now been switched to indicate that 360s and 2tph continue (ie the empty workings for the three Heathrow diagrams come from Heathrow Express depot rather than the Crossrail depot) for the next week.

Presumably this process will continue each week until they are ready to run 345s.

At the moment, Heathrow Express and TfL Rail are each running 2tph to Heathrow Terminal 5 and Heathrow Terminal 4 is shut. TfL Rail are running with a 16 minute dwell at Heathrow Terminal 5 and Heathrow Express a 26 minute dwell. With those timetables, and only one Airport terminal station open, there doesn't appear to be any scope to get a 4tph TfL Rail service to the Airport.

There is probably no need. I've just had a quick look at Flightradar24.com and I see two aircraft on finals (one of which is a A319 from Bournemouth obviously on a positioning flight (ECS is railway-speak!)) and one which took off about 10 minutes ago for Vancouver and then nothing else.
More than four trains per hour would be excessive.

 

[Bald Rick]

There is probably no need. I've just had a quick look at Flightradar24.com and I see two aircraft on finals (one of which is a A319 from Bournemouth obviously on a positioning flight (ECS is railway-speak!)) and one which took off about 10 minutes ago for Vancouver and then nothing else.
More than four trains per hour would be excessive.

That Vancouver flight just went over my house, making quite a lot of noise for a Dreamliner.

 

[TFN]

At the moment, Heathrow Express and TfL Rail are each running 2tph to Heathrow Terminal 5 and Heathrow Terminal 4 is shut. TfL Rail are running with a 16 minute dwell at Heathrow Terminal 5 and Heathrow Express a 26 minute dwell. With those timetables, and only one Airport terminal station open, there doesn't appear to be any scope to get a 4tph TfL Rail service to the Airport.

If they are ready to start running the 345s, wouldn't it make more sense to just run the existing 2tph using 345s until demand rises again and just withdraw the 360s? The 360s are already failing every other day at this point.

 

[JonathanH]

More than four trains per hour would be excessive.

I think you are probably right. I think the concern from the OP is that there is only 2tph at Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell because there aren't Hayes shuttles in addition to the Heathrow servuce

The 360s are already failing every other day at this point.

Not sure that is true - while there were quite a few cancellations the week before last I can only find two this week on RTT.

 

[AlanFry1]

Probably as the GEML is busier by far than those served by TFL rail on the GWML? And w Heathrow not having much in the way of traffic atm, it's not a surprise

 

[JonathanH]

Interestingly, TfL Rail have run extra one peak service into Paddington from Hayes & Harlington bay at 0619 this week - it seemingly runs empty from Old Oak Depot, does one trip into Paddington and then goes onto the depot.

Before anyone gets excited about this being the first 345 in passenger service service from Heathrow, the fact there is an empty stock working from Old Oak Depot and it ran from platform 5 at Hayes & Harlington is a giveaway that the Heathrow times in the second link are false.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/F00021/2020-06-01/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/25764/2020-06-01/detailed
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/25765/2020-06-01/detailed

 

[Horizon22]

I think you are probably right. I think the concern from the OP is that there is only 2tph at Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell because there aren't Hayes shuttles in addition to the Heathrow servuce



Not sure that is true - while there were quite a few cancellations the week before last I can only find two this week on RTT.

Yes this is the main issue - nothing to do with the airport but the intermediate suburban stops served by the ex-Heathrow Connect. Demand is probably light enough though.

 

[matt_world2004]

The XX:18, XX:48 Hayes and Harlington to Paddington service seemed to have been reinstated today do not know if this was planned or a temporary measure because of cracks in the tunnel at Heathrow airport

 

[Bald Rick]

The XX:18, XX:48 Hayes and Harlington to Paddington service seemed to have been reinstated today do not know if this was planned or a temporary measure because of cracks in the tunnel at Heathrow airport

It’s not cracks in the tunnel!

 

[matt_world2004]

It’s not cracks in the tunnel!

That's what the manually recorded announcement said at Southall

 

[Bald Rick]

That's what the manually recorded announcement said at Southall

Well they want a talking to then.