TFL sent a letter for prosecution

[Delilah1]

Hi,
I received a letter today from TFL stating due to an offence " the facts of this incident are being considered and I must advise you that legal proceedings may be taken against you in accordance with the transport of london's prosecution policy". They have asked me to write back to them within 10 days to either accept or deny the incident and if I deny it i need to mention why I should not be prosecuted.

Now I will explain what happened,

1. Yesterday around 7 am I got on the bus and I tapped my phone and the green light came on and the bus driver let me in, before this someone's card was not working and the bus driver did not let them on. A STOP later literally an inspector came on and started checking people's passes with their machine. My turn came and she kept saying my card is not valid, I told her I used apple pay and this is the only card I had used. She tapped all the other cards attached to apply pay but none of them came through. I told her that to even ask the bus driver as I only got on a stop before and that my card actually went through on the card reader but on her machine it kept showing up as not coming through.

2. This is something that happened to me in march earlier this year and I was fined £40, in that incident the ticket inspector actually asked the driver and she said that I had used my phone and got on the bus and the card reader went green, however I was still fined. to avoid further riff raff I just paid the fine and got along with my day.

3. the next day i checked online to see if I was charged on the bus but nothing came back for that specific journey, I saw my other journeys and fares on the same day but not the one where I was fined, I was very confused but as the matter was resolved I just ignored it and they made sure i was either using my card or using contactless properly to avoid this happening again.

4. Now 3 months later it happens again and as I insist the inspector to ask the driver as I just got on, she did not ask the driver but called up the people they do check and told me that I was reported before as well (march incident). She also told me there were previous incidents before but I was very confused about this and the only thing I could think of was when I use to have the zip oyster card back in school and when sometimes they wouldn't work I was allowed on the bus but if a ticket inspector came on they would just take my details down and on one occasion i was fine around £160 but this was years ago and ever since the march and yesterdays incident are fresh. She kept making derogatory words and called me a "serial offender" and that " I need to change my habits and become better". This was very upsetting as I tried to explain to her that this happened before and it is not an intentional thing and that I will now further look into why my card was not accepted on the bus. Then she said the prosecution team will be in touch.

5. I did check today to see if the bus fare went through on my card but for that specific journey it did not but on every other journey it did.
I have never intended to avoid bus or train or anything fares and I have always paid the correct fare. Now I got a letter stating I may be prosecuted and that I have 10 days to write back. I am not sure what to write back because I feel like whatever I say may just be used against me.

I am a student who also works and takes care of my sick parents, I help provide stuff in the family and I cannot afford to go to court. I am also studying a healthcare course and a criminal record would tarnish my reputation, especially over something like fare evasion, especially when it was unintentional. I really do not know why these 2 incidents even happened and why my card was not charged especially when I did tap and the green light did come on.

I really need some help and what I should do now, I really do not want to pay a solicitor as the ones ive been finding are £300-450 and its still a lot of money that I can use to put food on the table. I am willing to pay an out of court settlement though to avoid any prosecutions and record.

any advice is helpful, even lower cost legal help suggestions would be accepted. I currently have exams going on and I cannot afford to lose out these exams or go to court. Please can someone help me as I am very scared.

Im also conflicted as to should I mention the incident in march? or the previous incidents when I was younger? should this be mentioned or would this harm my defence?

 

[WesternLancer]

Welcome to the forum - I'm, no expert on TfL stuff so hopefully others can advise but I would think you need to

a) write back with a shortened and condensed version of the explanation above in mitigation, and offering to pay the correct fare owed and making it clear you had absolutely no intention to travel without paying, and always seek to pay the correct fare.

b) if you are a student does your university or student union have a advice service that can help you with this? (or maybe have a deal with a solicitors form that will give you free initial advice) - ask them ASAP

c) I know nothing about Apple Pay but do note a few cases on here with problems related to it - so maybe a thing to do is to avoid using it in the hope it means less hassle in future.

d) no need to mention previous incidents in your reply to them unless they are asking you about them. But of course do not write anything that might be a lie or could be misconstrued (eg don't say for example 'this is the first time it has ever happened' or such type of thing)

People often post their draft responses on here for comment and suggestions and I am sure if you did that people would try to help in that way.

Try not to let this distract from your exams etc if you can - for which good luck.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Did the bus start its journey where you tapped in?

 

[Delilah1]

Did the bus start its journey where you tapped in?

No

Welcome to the forum - I'm, no expert on TfL stuff so hopefully others can advise but I would think you need to

a) write back with a shortened and condensed version of the explanation above in mitigation, and offering to pay the correct fare owed and making it clear you had absolutely no intention to travel without paying, and always seek to pay the correct fare.

b) if you are a student does your university or student union have a advice service that can help you with this? (or maybe have a deal with a solicitors form that will give you free initial advice) - ask them ASAP

c) I know nothing about Apple Pay but do note a few cases on here with problems related to it - so maybe a thing to do is to avoid using it in the hope it means less hassle in future.

d) no need to mention previous incidents in your reply to them unless they are asking you about them. But of course do not write anything that might be a lie or could be misconstrued (eg don't say for example 'this is the first time it has ever happened' or such type of thing)

People often post their draft responses on here for comment and suggestions and I am sure if you did that people would try to help in that way.

Try not to let this distract from your exams etc if you can - for which good luck.

yes that was what i was thinking as to just refer to yesterday's incident as im sure they have it on record any previous encounters etc. I honestly have been trying to just use an oyster card as i know my apple pay is messing up, should i show screen shots of the other journeys charged to my card yesterday or would that just be pointless? as it was just the morning journey that didnt come out from my card but the rest of the day it did

 

[WesternLancer]

should i show screen shots of the other journeys charged to my card yesterday or would that just be pointless? as it was just the morning journey that didnt come out from my card but the rest of the day it did

I don't really know for sure - but I can see no reason not to show the screen shots, and I think I probably would do so if I was in this position - it would surely do no harm since you are not trying to claim that you did pay for that trip (since the inspector found out payment had not been taken before you had any reason to believe it had not been taken ie you believed you had paid up until that point the inspector checked).

 

[Delilah1]

I don't really know for sure - but I can see no reason not to show the screen shots, and I think I probably would do so if I was in this position - it would surely do no harm since you are not trying to claim that you did pay for that trip (since the inspector found out payment had not been taken before you had any reason to believe it had not been taken ie you believed you had paid up until that point the inspector checked).

Im just scared as it has happened before and they might not be so understanding this time round

 

[GadgetMan]

No


yes that was what i was thinking as to just refer to yesterday's incident as im sure they have it on record any previous encounters etc. I honestly have been trying to just use an oyster card as i know my apple pay is messing up, should i show screen shots of the other journeys charged to my card yesterday or would that just be pointless? as it was just the morning journey that didnt come out from my card but the rest of the day it did

If the other journeys were after you got questioned in the morning then I don't think it's going to mean much as its no surprise someone would pay for travel 'after' being detected.

What may 'look' better is if you can show you've been making the same journeys on previous days /weeks and all journeys were correctly paid for.

from TFL point of view, it's a bit suspicious that your payment method only fails on the trips a inspector has boarded your bus

 

[Delilah1]

If the other journeys were after you got questioned in the morning then I don't think it's going to mean much as its no surprise someone would pay for travel 'after' being detected.

What may 'look' better is if you can show you've been making the same journeys on previous days /weeks and all journeys were correctly paid for.

from TFL point of view, it's a bit suspicious that your payment method only fails on the trips a inspector has boarded your bus

thanks for your response, this journey i did was the first lol I was on my way to the gym 7:30am and all my other journeys online won't show that I did this SPECIFIC journey before but there's a looong statement of other journeys from the previous months etc
Should I still include it and if i do how should I reference that into my statement.

iS This okay to send?

Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for your letter dated Wednesday 8th June 2022. I have read and duly noted the contents; I am writing to accept the offence I made for not being able to show an appropriate form of ticket for my bus journey towards Ilford. I would like first sincerely to apologise for the inconvenience this has caused.

I would like to explain that I had no malicious intent to avoid any fare. I got onto the bus on ***** at around 7:30 am and used apple pay to pay for the bus, the card reader went green, and I seated myself at the front of the bus. A stop or two later, the ticket inspector got on and asked me to tap my device on her machine. I did that, and she said nothing was coming up; I insisted and told her I just had got on and she could ask the driver to prove that I used my phone to tap into the bus. However, she said Tfl would be in contact to prosecute me.

I have attached PDF statements hoping to show that I do pay the correct fare amount and have been using one specific card for all my travels (card ending in ****).

I have realised these past few months that my apple device has not been effectively working, I have been meaning to get a new phone, but as a student and provider for my sick parents, I haven’t been able to afford it yet. I am currently doing my end of year exams and intend to purchase a new phone once my exams are over.

I am a biomedical student, and a criminal conviction will prevent me from gaining further education and employment in the healthcare field. This will also affect my family’s stability, as I will be the sole provider once I graduate.

I do profusely apologise and admit that it is my responsibility to assure that a working card/device is used before using any charged public services and that there shouldn’t be any errors in my payment methods. I will now resort to oyster cards or tickets until my phone and apple pay are fixed. I feel ashamed for my irresponsible behaviour, and I will now check further on what I am using to pay and if it will work correctly.

I fully realise the severity of this matter. I am prepared to pay the outstanding fare immediately, any other costs you have incurred, and an administrative penalty to settle the matter.

Please accept my sincerest apology and I assure you this will not happen again,

 

[30907]

Two points:

1. I am not sure you are wise to admit you have been using a method of payment you knew to be unreliable.

2. The paragraph about your career prospects is (you will be pleased to hear) is not accurate. A conviction for failing to pay your fare WILL show up on an Enhanced DBS, but is very unlikely to have a serious impact. If you are concerned about this, talk to your present college/uni welfare people for advice and check with any relevant professional body's advice (ISTR that nursing has specific guidance, for example).
Meanwhile, you should either omit the paragraph or change it to say ".... I am concerned that a conviction might..."

 

[Delilah1]

Two points:

1. I am not sure you are wise to admit you have been using a method of payment you knew to be unreliable.

2. The paragraph about your career prospects is (you will be pleased to hear) is not accurate. A conviction for failing to pay your fare WILL show up on an Enhanced DBS, but is very unlikely to have a serious impact. If you are concerned about this, talk to your present college/uni welfare people for advice and check with any relevant professional body's advice (ISTR that nursing has specific guidance, for example).
Meanwhile, you should either omit the paragraph or change it to say ".... I am concerned that a conviction might..."

The first point you’re referring to is it where I said “ I have realised my phone…”
I’m not sure how to word that correctly. As I only realised there’s something wrong with my Apple Pay for tfl in March and then it never happened again till this time yesterday.
the thing is I just want to let them know that I know it’s my mistake I just don’t want to be prosecuted or taken to court.

 

[AlterEgo]

The first point you’re referring to is it where I said “ I have realised my phone…”
I’m not sure how to word that correctly. As I only realised there’s something wrong with my Apple Pay for tfl in March and then it never happened again till this time yesterday.
the thing is I just want to let them know that I know it’s my mistake I just don’t want to be prosecuted or taken to court.

How many times has the payment failed after tapping in on the bus?

 

[Delilah1]

How many times has the payment failed after tapping in on the bus?

just yesterday once in the morning but worked throughout the day and then also once in march if thats what youre referring to

 

[furlong]

Open requests to view CCTV from the bus showing you touching in as well as two people before and after you, and the relevant portion of computer logs covering the same period, showing what the machine reported for the people before and after you as well as what it says it did for your card.

 

[Delilah1]

Open requests to view CCTV from the bus showing you touching in as well as two people before and after you, and the relevant portion of computer logs covering the same period, showing what the machine reported for the people before and after you as well as what it says it did for your card.

thats a good idea but would they acc do that

 

[Delilah1]

Hi guys I am in a situation where TFL have sent me a letter regarding an incident they might prosecute me for however they asked for a letter back to explain why it happened and why i shouldn't be prosecuted,
can someone let me know if this is okay to send please:


Thank you for your letter dated ****. I have read and duly noted the contents; I am writing to accept the offence I made for not being able to show an appropriate form of ticket for my bus journey towards ****. I would like first sincerely to apologise for the inconvenience this has caused.


I would like to explain that I had no malicious intent to avoid any fare. I got onto the bus on **** at around 7:30 am and used contactless to pay for the bus, the card reader went green, and I seated myself at the front of the bus. A stop or two later, the ticket inspector got on and asked me to tap on her machine. I did that, and she said nothing was coming up; I insisted and told her I just had got on and she could ask the driver to prove that I had tapped into the bus.


I have attached PDF statements hoping to show that I do pay the correct fare amount and have been using one specific card for all my travels (card ending in ****).

I am a biomedical student and currently in midst of exams, and I am concerned a criminal conviction might prevent me from gaining further education and employment in the healthcare field. This will also affect my family’s stability, as I will be the sole provider once I graduate.


I do profusely apologise and admit that it is my responsibility to assure that a working card/device is used before using any charged public services and that there shouldn’t be any errors in my payment methods. I will now resort to using only valid oyster cards or tickets until my phone/card and apple pay are fixed. I feel ashamed for my irresponsible behaviour, and I will now check further on what I am using to pay and if it will work correctly.


I fully realise the severity of this matter. I am ready to pay the outstanding fare immediately, any other costs you have incurred, and an administrative penalty to settle the matter.

Please accept my sincerest apology and I assure you this will not happen again

 

[WesternLancer]

The first point you’re referring to is it where I said “ I have realised my phone…”
I’m not sure how to word that correctly. As I only realised there’s something wrong with my Apple Pay for tfl in March and then it never happened again till this time yesterday.
the thing is I just want to let them know that I know it’s my mistake I just don’t want to be prosecuted or taken to court.

I'd be tempted to remove all references to your phone failing to work - makes it look like it is your fault for having an unreliable phone. Better for it to be some sort of mystery to you as to why it did not work IMHO - when you try to pay with it every time and it seems once in a blue moon it has not worked.

 

[furlong]

If it got to the stage of prosecution you'd be entitled to any evidence in their possession that might lend support to your defence case so by asking for it now you're making sure they retain it and CCTV for example doesn't get overwritten or lost. They should already have taken steps to preserve the CCTV as it's directly relevant to the explanation you provided at the time, but they might not have been so diligent. As you're alleging a system malfunction you might also want to pull in more evidence relating to their testing and fault handling and statistics.

 

[AlterEgo]

just yesterday once in the morning but worked throughout the day and then also once in march if thats what youre referring to

Are you sure?

You might want to thoroughly audit and reconcile your journeys with your bank statement, because the likelihood the payment *only* failed on the two occasions you happened to be stopped by an inspector is very small. The company may look at your purchase history too.

Did you challenge the March £40 penalty fare? You say you just paid it, but was anything recorded about the nature of your defence at the time? It may not work in your favour if you have been repeatedly using a payment method you know has caused issues.

@furlong's advice about asking for the computer logs and CCTV is wise. It also lets them know you won't be a pushover.

 

[Delilah1]

Are you sure?

You might want to thoroughly audit and reconcile your journeys with your bank statement, because the likelihood the payment *only* failed on the two occasions you happened to be stopped by an inspector is very small. The company may look at your purchase history too.

Did you challenge the March £40 penalty fare? You say you just paid it, but was anything recorded about the nature of your defence at the time? It may not work in your favour if you have been repeatedly using a payment method you know has caused issues.

@furlong's advice about asking for the computer logs and CCTV is wise. It also lets them know you won't be a pushover.

ever since the march incident, i ended up checking the day after to see if it went through or not, it all seems okay but because theres soo many journeys made im not sure it all went through etc.
No i did not as I was late for uni and the inspector only wrote down a few things on the note, she said its highly likely that my card was at fault. How should i mention the cctv into my letter? i dont want to make it long but then i do not want to mention it in a snotty way where they think im trying to outsmart or challenge them. Just want this nightmare to be over.

Also this is the modified version of the letter so far:

Thank you for your letter dated **** I have read and duly noted the contents; I am writing to accept the offence I made for not being able to show an appropriate form of ticket for my bus journey towards ***. I would like first sincerely to apologise for the inconvenience this has caused.

I would like to explain that I had no malicious intent to avoid any fare. I got onto the bus on **** at around 7:30 am and used contactless to pay for the bus, the card reader went green, and I seated myself at the front of the bus. A stop or two later, the ticket inspector got on and asked me to tap on her machine. I did that, and she said nothing was coming up; I insisted and told her I just had got on and she could ask the driver to prove that I had tapped into the bus.

I have attached PDF statements hoping to show that I do pay the correct fare amount and have been using one specific card for all my travels (card ending in ****).

I am a biomedical student and currently in midst of exams, and I am concerned a criminal conviction might prevent me from gaining further education and employment in the healthcare field. This will also affect my family’s stability, as I will be the sole provider once I graduate.

I do profusely apologise and admit that it is my responsibility to assure that a working card/device is used before using any charged public services and that there shouldn’t be any errors in my payment methods. I will now resort to using only valid oyster cards or tickets until my phone/card and apple pay are fixed. I feel ashamed for my irresponsible behaviour, and I will now check further on what I am using to pay and if it will work correctly.

I fully realise the severity of this matter. I am ready to pay the outstanding fare immediately, any other costs you have incurred, and an administrative penalty to settle the matter.

Please accept my sincerest apology and I assure you this will not happen again

 

[DerelictLine]

ever since the march incident, i ended up checking the day after to see if it went through or not, it all seems okay but because theres soo many journeys made im not sure it all went through etc.
No i did not as I was late for uni and the inspector only wrote down a few things on the note, she said its highly likely that my card was at fault. How should i mention the cctv into my letter? i dont want to make it long but then i do not want to mention it in a snotty way where they think im trying to outsmart or challenge them. Just want this nightmare to be over.

Also this is the modified version of the letter so far:

Thank you for your letter dated **** I have read and duly noted the contents; I am writing to accept the offence I made for not being able to show an appropriate form of ticket for my bus journey towards ***. I would like first sincerely to apologise for the inconvenience this has caused.

I would like to explain that I had no malicious intent to avoid any fare. I got onto the bus on **** at around 7:30 am and used contactless to pay for the bus, the card reader went green, and I seated myself at the front of the bus. A stop or two later, the ticket inspector got on and asked me to tap on her machine. I did that, and she said nothing was coming up; I insisted and told her I just had got on and she could ask the driver to prove that I had tapped into the bus.

I have attached PDF statements hoping to show that I do pay the correct fare amount and have been using one specific card for all my travels (card ending in ****).

I am a biomedical student and currently in midst of exams, and I am concerned a criminal conviction might prevent me from gaining further education and employment in the healthcare field. This will also affect my family’s stability, as I will be the sole provider once I graduate.

I do profusely apologise and admit that it is my responsibility to assure that a working card/device is used before using any charged public services and that there shouldn’t be any errors in my payment methods. I will now resort to using only valid oyster cards or tickets until my phone/card and apple pay are fixed. I feel ashamed for my irresponsible behaviour, and I will now check further on what I am using to pay and if it will work correctly.

I fully realise the severity of this matter. I am ready would like to offer to pay the outstanding fare immediately, and plus any other costs you have incurred whilst investigating this matter.

Please accept my sincerest apology and I assure you this will not happen again

A good letter, I’ve made some small changes which I think you should make

 

[GC class B1]

I can’t add anything regarding the specific case but as an Apple Pay user I can add my experience. I have been using sing Apple Pay on my watch for several years now. at first it didn’t work on quite a few occasions perhaps every 10 - 20 times. Recently it has failed to work on a very few occasions and when it hasn’t this has been a problem with the merchant’s machine as they have told me this when it didn’t work. On every occasion I use it I check that it has shown transaction approved on the merchant‘s machine. As I have a bus pass I don’t pay on buses but have noticed on our local busses that people use their phones and sometimes they don’t work and the machine doesn’t make the correct noise And they make several attempt. When it has worked the drivers usually says ok. My point is that the driver surely knows whether Apple pay has worked and should tell you if it hasn’t and ask you to try again. Also my watch gives me a notification that the payment has been taken.

 

[Jimini]

I can’t add anything regarding the specific case but as an Apple Pay user I can add my experience. I have been using sing Apple Pay on my watch for several years now. at first it didn’t work on quite a few occasions perhaps every 10 - 20 times. Recently it has failed to work on a very few occasions and when it hasn’t this has been a problem with the merchant’s machine as they have told me this when it didn’t work. On every occasion I use it I check that it has shown transaction approved on the merchant‘s machine. As I have a bus pass I don’t pay on buses but have noticed on our local busses that people use their phones and sometimes they don’t work and the machine doesn’t make the correct noise And they make several attempt. When it has worked the drivers usually says ok. My point is that the driver surely knows whether Apple pay has worked and should tell you if it hasn’t and ask you to try again. Also my watch gives me a notification that the payment has been taken.

Pretty sure TfL tally all your spending up for the day and then put one transaction through at the end, or at least that's my experience (using Apple Pay / AmEx). So you wouldn't get an alert about the transaction at the time of boarding (I don't anyway)?

 

[WesternLancer]

I do profusely apologise and admit that it is my responsibility to assure that a working card/device is used before using any charged public services and that there shouldn’t be any errors in my payment methods. I will now resort to using only valid oyster cards or tickets until my phone/card and apple pay are fixed. I feel ashamed for my irresponsible behaviour, and I will now check further on what I am using to pay and if it will work correctly.

Up to the OP of course but I'd be tempted to amend this para above a bit - since the whole argument of the OP is that they believed they had paid - what about

I do profusely apologise for this situation and understand that it is my responsibility to ensure that I pay for my travel. I believed that I had paid by virtue of the green light showing after I touched on with my device when boarding. I will now resort to using only valid oyster cards or tickets until I am convinced that my phone/card and apple pay work on every occasion to prevent this situation occurring in future.

 

[Delilah1]

Up to the OP of course but I'd be tempted to amend this para above a bit - since the whole argument of the OP is that they believed they had paid - what about

how would i change this if you dont mind helping me?

Up to the OP of course but I'd be tempted to amend this para above a bit - since the whole argument of the OP is that they believed they had paid - what about

oh i just saw this now clearly, thank you this sounds better and aligns more to what I would want them to know.

 

[WesternLancer]

how would i change this if you dont mind helping me?

My replacement suggested wording for the paragraph concerned is the second part of my post #23. Apols if that was not clear. Have a think if you think it works better for you - but it's your choice. I was not suggesting any other changes so only posted that para with a possible amended version.

Just seen your updated post - glad you spotted it - good luck!

 

[Delilah1]

My replacement suggested wording for the paragraph concerned is the second part of my post #23. Apols if that was not clear. Have a think if you think it works better for you - but it's your choice. I was not suggesting any other changes so only posted that para with a possible amended version.

Just seen your updated post - glad you spotted it - good luck!

when do you reckon i should send out the letter, the thing is i will be flying out next month on the 16th july so if i send it now would i know the outcome before and god forbid what if i get called to court

 

[AlterEgo]

when do you reckon i should send out the letter, the thing is i will be flying out next month on the 16th july

You should send it as soon as possible.

so if i send it now would i know the outcome before and god forbid what if i get called to court

You wouldn't necessarily, no, these things can take some time. How long are you away for?

 

[Delilah1]

You should send it as soon as possible.

You wouldn't necessarily, no, these things can take some time. How long are you away for?

I received it yesterday literally the day after i met the inspector on the bus, so if I send it early it wouldnt be bad or anything?

I am away till the 2nd of sept because i am also going for my grandparents death anniversary, they died during covid and we were not able to travel until this year so we all decided to go and just spend some time there with family.

 

[AlterEgo]

I received it yesterday literally the day after i met the inspector on the bus, so if I send it early it wouldnt be bad or anything?

I am away till the 2nd of sept because i am also going for my grandparents death anniversary, they died during covid and we were not able to travel until this year so we all decided to go and just spend some time there with family.

You should arrange for someone to handle your post in the meantime. If you are summonsed, you will not necessarily have to attend court but you will need to enter a plea.

 

[Delilah1]

You should arrange for someone to handle your post in the meantime. If you are summonsed, you will not necessarily have to attend court but you will need to enter a plea.

yes my dad would be here as he wont be able to travel, also whats the best way to send the letter currently, through email or post and if through email should i just write it all up on the email etc?