TFL sent a letter for prosecution

[WesternLancer]

yes my dad would be here as he wont be able to travel, also whats the best way to send the letter currently, through email or post and if through email should i just write it all up on the email etc?

Potentially use both if they are available to you - and post the one with 'signed for' post at your local post office so you have proof of it.

 

[Delilah1]

Potentially use both if they are available to you - and post the one with 'signed for' post at your local post office so you have proof of it.

With the email should I write it up on the email thing or send it as an attachment? Yeah I’ll do both but I can’t send it through post today so I will do it tomorrow.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To clarify, the reason I asked above whether the bus had started its journey was that this happened to me (using a debit card, not a phone) and the cause appeared to be the driver going on stand while still "logged into" the previous journey, so my touch was registered against that and not the new journey. I was charged for it, unlike yourself, so a PF appeal or Court defence would have been fairly easy using my journey history as evidence. Fortunately, after a bit of debate and checking with the driver, the inspectors believed me, issued a zero fare ticket without taking details and let it go.

Now all-door boarding isn't allowed any more I think this is unlikely to happen again as the driver would have asked me to wait, or it'd have been visible he was still logging the ticket machine in.

 

[WesternLancer]

With the email should I write it up on the email thing or send it as an attachment? Yeah I’ll do both but I can’t send it through post today so I will do it tomorrow.

Sorry - I don't know what is best / don't have a view on that ref the e-mail. So long as they can read it is presumably OK - and includes all of your relevant personal details and case reference etc.

 

[DerelictLine]

With the email should I write it up on the email thing or send it as an attachment? Yeah I’ll do both but I can’t send it through post today so I will do it tomorrow.

You should be fine writing it as an email.

 

[trainguyb124]

Hi,
I received a letter today from TFL stating due to an offence " the facts of this incident are being considered and I must advise you that legal proceedings may be taken against you in accordance with the transport of london's prosecution policy". They have asked me to write back to them within 10 days to either accept or deny the incident and if I deny it i need to mention why I should not be prosecuted.

Now I will explain what happened,

1. Yesterday around 7 am I got on the bus and I tapped my phone and the green light came on and the bus driver let me in, before this someone's card was not working and the bus driver did not let them on. A STOP later literally an inspector came on and started checking people's passes with their machine. My turn came and she kept saying my card is not valid, I told her I used apple pay and this is the only card I had used. She tapped all the other cards attached to apply pay but none of them came through. I told her that to even ask the bus driver as I only got on a stop before and that my card actually went through on the card reader but on her machine it kept showing up as not coming through.

2. This is something that happened to me in march earlier this year and I was fined £40, in that incident the ticket inspector actually asked the driver and she said that I had used my phone and got on the bus and the card reader went green, however I was still fined. to avoid further riff raff I just paid the fine and got along with my day.

3. the next day i checked online to see if I was charged on the bus but nothing came back for that specific journey, I saw my other journeys and fares on the same day but not the one where I was fined, I was very confused but as the matter was resolved I just ignored it and they made sure i was either using my card or using contactless properly to avoid this happening again.

4. Now 3 months later it happens again and as I insist the inspector to ask the driver as I just got on, she did not ask the driver but called up the people they do check and told me that I was reported before as well (march incident). She also told me there were previous incidents before but I was very confused about this and the only thing I could think of was when I use to have the zip oyster card back in school and when sometimes they wouldn't work I was allowed on the bus but if a ticket inspector came on they would just take my details down and on one occasion i was fine around £160 but this was years ago and ever since the march and yesterdays incident are fresh. She kept making derogatory words and called me a "serial offender" and that " I need to change my habits and become better". This was very upsetting as I tried to explain to her that this happened before and it is not an intentional thing and that I will now further look into why my card was not accepted on the bus. Then she said the prosecution team will be in touch.

5. I did check today to see if the bus fare went through on my card but for that specific journey it did not but on every other journey it did.
I have never intended to avoid bus or train or anything fares and I have always paid the correct fare. Now I got a letter stating I may be prosecuted and that I have 10 days to write back. I am not sure what to write back because I feel like whatever I say may just be used against me.

I am a student who also works and takes care of my sick parents, I help provide stuff in the family and I cannot afford to go to court. I am also studying a healthcare course and a criminal record would tarnish my reputation, especially over something like fare evasion, especially when it was unintentional. I really do not know why these 2 incidents even happened and why my card was not charged especially when I did tap and the green light did come on.

I really need some help and what I should do now, I really do not want to pay a solicitor as the ones ive been finding are £300-450 and its still a lot of money that I can use to put food on the table. I am willing to pay an out of court settlement though to avoid any prosecutions and record.

any advice is helpful, even lower cost legal help suggestions would be accepted. I currently have exams going on and I cannot afford to lose out these exams or go to court. Please can someone help me as I am very scared.

Im also conflicted as to should I mention the incident in march? or the previous incidents when I was younger? should this be mentioned or would this harm my defence?

I hope you don’t mind me asking and I apologise to distract from main task at hand. But what was the turn around time between the incident and you receiving the letter may I ask please?

 

[Delilah1]

I hope you don’t mind me asking and I apologise to distract from main task at hand. But what was the turn around time between the incident and you receiving the letter may I ask please?

The next day lol. It early in the morning when the inspector met me and the next day I got the letter.
Does this mean anything bad?

 

[diffident]

The next day lol. It early in the morning when the inspector met me and the next day I got the letter.
Does this mean anything bad?

It's a quick turnaround for sure! But I wouldn't put any credence on that. TfL have a smooth operation going on for fare recovery, which the Mayor is reportedly very proud of - even though it does stiff many unsuspecting victims who actually have valid cases.

You have a statutory period to respond, does that expire before you travel? (It can be 14, 21 or 28 days depending on which part of legislation they are trying to prosecute on).

In this scenario, as others have said, obtaining the CCTV from the bus, which would show the "green light" when you boarded would be enough for them not to proceed any further. That is an easy process either through a Solicitor, or by contacting TfL direct and requesting it. By doing so, it would automatically delay their proceedings against you whilst you gathered your supporting evidence.

Because you are travelling away unfortunately does not have a baring in law. So if TfL wished to proceed, they would do so in your absence. It would be wise to gather everything you can now prior to going away.

 

[AlterEgo]

Will any CCTV actually show the Oyster reader, anyway?

 

[Haywain]

Will any CCTV actually show the Oyster reader, anyway?

I would be quite surprised if CCTV was good enough to show whether a touch in was successful or not.

 

[pelli]

Will any CCTV actually show the Oyster reader, anyway?

I would be quite surprised if CCTV was good enough to show whether a touch in was successful or not.

Yesterday around 7 am I got on the bus and I tapped my phone and the green light came on and the bus driver let me in, before this someone's card was not working and the bus driver did not let them on.

Would it be possible to gather enough length of CCTV coverage to show the driver reacting to the first passenger's failed touch and refusing travel, and then not reacting to the OP's touch and letting them on, and if so, would this convince a court?

 

[diffident]

Would it be possible to gather enough length of CCTV coverage to show the driver reacting to the first passenger's failed touch and refusing travel, and then not reacting to the OP's touch and letting them on, and if so, would this convince a court?

Assuming the matter went all the way to court, it would be enough. Plus potentially having the driver themselves give a statement.

I'm pretty sure however that if the CCTV is requested from TfL alongside a letter of explanation of the circumstances, they may well quietly drop this one.

 

[westcoaster]

Would it be possible to gather enough length of CCTV coverage to show the driver reacting to the first passenger's failed touch and refusing travel, and then not reacting to the OP's touch and letting them on, and if so, would this convince a court?

Could the failed attempt from the previous customer, have caused an issue.
Was wondering if the driver has to clear the error from his machine before the next tap in.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Will any CCTV actually show the Oyster reader, anyway?

The cab is the most likely CCTV place.

I would be quite surprised if CCTV was good enough to show whether a touch in was successful or not.

Quite possibly not. But a zoom in on the moment and enhancement might just catch a light showing. However, a ticket machine print off would be a much better bet. If the card was accepted it will have registered on the machine, it's possible the inspectors machine didn't get the data correctly

 

[Delilah1]

I sent an email to then on Friday but I only got thr automated reply back. However I’m thinking should I also post them a letter or is an email enoigh? I had 10 days to send them email/letter and I sent them the email 3 days later so idk if I should also send a letter to or am I good just sending email?
Would my email be like sent all the way to the bottom thoigh if other people are also emailing them etc?

 

[Hadders]

I sent an email to then on Friday but I only got thr automated reply back. However I’m thinking should I also post them a letter or is an email enoigh? I had 10 days to send them email/letter and I sent them the email 3 days later so idk if I should also send a letter to or am I good just sending email?
Would my email be like sent all the way to the bottom thoigh if other people are also emailing them etc?

If you've had an automated reply then they have receoived your email so there's not relly any point in sending a copy of the letter via the post.

 

[Delilah1]

If you've had an automated reply then they have receoived your email so there's not relly any point in sending a copy of the letter via the post.

Ah okay I was just wondering you know incase they like skip the email or what not, when do you think I should hear from them?

 

[DerelictLine]

Ah okay I was just wondering you know incase they like skip the email or what not, when do you think I should hear from them?

I would say within 2 weeks

 

[Delilah1]

I would say within 2 weeks

within 2 weeks from the day i sent the email or after my 10days to send evidence period?

 

[DerelictLine]

within 2 weeks from the day i sent the email or after my 10days to send evidence period?

From when you sent it

 

[Delilah1]

From when you sent it

it has been 2 weeks since I sent out a reply to TFL and haven't heard back anything.

 

[jumble]

It's a quick turnaround for sure! But I wouldn't put any credence on that. TfL have a smooth operation going on for fare recovery, which the Mayor is reportedly very proud of - even though it does stiff many unsuspecting victims who actually have valid cases.

You have a statutory period to respond, does that expire before you travel? (It can be 14, 21 or 28 days depending on which part of legislation they are trying to prosecute on).

I have been away so am a bit late in replying so forgive me.
Can you cite some proper evidence that TFL are "stiffing" many unsuspecting victims who have valid cases
The OP does not count as TFL have not yet taken any action
(If you said TIL I would wholehartedly agree)

 

[Delilah1]

Hi,
So a little update, I received single justice procedure notice. I have to again submit a plea of guilty or not, ofcourse as stated in my original post this was all due to my apple pay not working corretly.
would this mean this is going to go on my record?

 

[Hadders]

Can you upload a copy of the notice with any personal details redacted as we need to see exactly which law you are being prosecuted under for us to be able to advise.

 

[Delilah1]

Can you upload a copy of the notice with any personal details redacted as we need to see exactly which law you are being prosecuted under for us to be able to advise.

this is what i have received, does this mean it is on my record? and will it affect my uni and future healthcare job plans??? really worried now

 

[Hadders]

View attachment 118354
this is what i have received, does this mean it is on my record? and will it affect my uni and future healthcare job plans??? really worried now

You have been found guilty by the court and this will be on your reccrd. What you have posted doesn't say exactly which offence you have been found guilty of, if it is a 'bye-law' offence then it is usually considered spent immediately and won't normally show up on most DBS searches.

A minor ticketing issue shoild not affect future career rpospects. The main thing is to be honest when completing application forms, what is worse is them finding out later.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

View attachment 118354
this is what i have received, does this mean it is on my record? and will it affect my uni and future healthcare job plans??? really worried now

To start with the obvious, you now need to pay this.

If your plans are to study at university for some sort of healthcare role, you will need to declare this when you apply (and at all other stages when they, the healthcare regulator, and so on ask). This will be embarrassing. You may have to write a note explaining what happened. But I wouldn’t expect it to cause a problem. As long as this is the only time that you have ended up with a fine over a bus fare, it will be considered a one-off mistake. If it starts happening more than once, that would be a different matter.

And don’t try to hide this. As I understand it, this may be a system fault and you’re not really to blame. But trying to hide it would be your decision and suggest that your approach to problems isn’t to be open about them but rather that you try to cover them up. That’s not the approach someone working in healthcare should take, so doing that would cause you a problem.

 

[John Palmer]

To the OP: did you plead guilty in response to the SJPN, notwithstanding that the preceding passenger's card payment of the fare failed but yours appeared to succeed?

If a SJP 'Guilty' plea can be processed and a fine handed down within 3 days of its receipt by the accused then plainly the criminal justice system can't be as badly broken as we have been led to believe!

It would help to know exactly what the charge was. Impossible to be sure from the copy document uploaded, but seems this may have been a prosecution for breach of Reg. 7 of the Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990. What is TFL's authority to institute a prosecution by means of the Single Justice Procedure for such an offence?​

 

[Delilah1]

the offence is " public service vehicles - passenger failing to pay fare" that is what it says

You have been found guilty by the court and this will be on your reccrd. What you have posted doesn't say exactly which offence you have been found guilty of, if it is a 'bye-law' offence then it is usually considered spent immediately and won't normally show up on most DBS searches.

A minor ticketing issue shoild not affect future career rpospects. The main thing is to be honest when completing application forms, what is worse is them finding out later.

the offence is " public service vehicles - passenger failing to pay fare" that is what it says

To the OP: did you plead guilty in response to the SJPN, notwithstanding that the preceding passenger's card payment of the fare failed but yours appeared to succeed?

If a SJP 'Guilty' plea can be processed and a fine handed down within 3 days of its receipt by the accused then plainly the criminal justice system can't be as badly broken as we have been led to believe!

It would help to know exactly what the charge was. Impossible to be sure from the copy document uploaded, but seems this may have been a prosecution for breach of Reg. 7 of the Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990. What is TFL's authority to institute a prosecution by means of the Single Justice Procedure for such an offence?​

yes I did, it said if i do not plead gulity i will need to come to court for that and I am currently away and would not be able to do it.
the offence is " public service vehicles - passenger failing to pay fare" that is what it says