• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

TFL Travelcard and Capping Changes

Status
Not open for further replies.

PermitToTravel

Established Member
Joined
21 Dec 2011
Messages
3,044
Location
Groningen
No. If you use the same Oyster card, you'll be charged £9.00. Oyster will always calculate the cheapest combination of caps and single fares.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
Yes, indeed - I can certainly say for myself that if the off peak day paper travelcard is axed leaving just the peak one from Epsom then I'm no longer going to bother to wait for the 09.34; I'll more likely head out at around 07.45 or 08.00 on my bashing days off from work... Might as well get my money's worth...

Given that the queue at the ticket office is often 20 - 30 deep with people waiting for the 09.34 Waterloo / 09.42 Victoria on a weekday, I'm fairly sure I'm not the only one who'd be thinking like that. That number of people is an extra half a carriage worth...

The restriction on the Off-Peak Day Travelcard Epsom - London Zones 1-6 appears to be 'By any train scheduled to
arrive London Terminals or Kensington Olympia at or after 0950.'

Can you therefore not use the 0914 Epsom - London V arr 0952?
 

talldave

Established Member
Joined
24 Jan 2013
Messages
2,169
The restriction on the Off-Peak Day Travelcard Epsom - London Zones 1-6 appears to be 'By any train scheduled to
arrive London Terminals or Kensington Olympia at or after 0950.'

Can you therefore not use the 0914 Epsom - London V arr 0952?

As long as the OP is prepared to argue with incorrectly trained Southern staff who promulgate the "off peak is after 9.30" myth.

A friend informs me that Southern's ticket barrier gestapo at Epsom are particularly obnoxious having refused to allow him through with a bike in accordance with Southern's own cycle policy!
 
Last edited:

Paul Kelly

Verified Rep - BR Fares
Joined
16 Apr 2010
Messages
4,130
Location
Reading
The point is, if I've been running around central London making many journeys which cap at £7.50 and then use the same Oystercard to travel into Z4 then I'll find myself being charged a Z4 cap of £9.20.

If that were true then the cap would be called a collar... what would be the point in having Oyster single fares if you were always charged a fixed minimum based on the zones you'd travelled in?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The restriction on the Off-Peak Day Travelcard Epsom - London Zones 1-6 appears to be 'By any train scheduled to
arrive London Terminals or Kensington Olympia at or after 0950.'

Can you therefore not use the 0914 Epsom - London V arr 0952?

I think you are right. That's a particularly interesting anomaly in a number of ways!
 

MikeWh

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 Jun 2010
Messages
7,865
Location
Crayford
The point is, if I've been running around central London making many journeys which cap at £7.50 and then use the same Oystercard to travel into Z4 then I'll find myself being charged a Z4 cap of £9.20.

But, if I use a different Oystercard for an off-peak journey between Z3 and Z4 then I'll end up being charged a total of £9.00 (£7.50 + £1.50).

It depends. If your final journey is just a z3-4 single on TfL-set routes then it will be charged at £1.50. It doesn't go back and work out whether you exceeded the previous cap. However, if your final journey is a z1-4 single on TfL or any single on NR-set routes then it will charge £1.70 and be capped at the new zonal rate for z1-4.
 

mrmartin

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2012
Messages
1,011
Is there any new info on what's happening to railcard discounts on price caps? I guess it's being abolished entirely..?

I very rarely travel in the morning peak. It looks like my fare is going from £5.10/day to £7.50 a day. I usually get two trains and two buses a day if I go into London so assuming it's all off peak then it's going up to £6.10. If I get a peak train in the evening back home then it will hit the new peak cap at £7.50, which is a 47% increase. Not too happy.
 

MikeWh

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 Jun 2010
Messages
7,865
Location
Crayford
Is there any new info on what's happening to railcard discounts on price caps? I guess it's being abolished entirely..?

Reading the page on the TfL website suggests otherwise. The disabled railcard will offer a discount on all fares and caps while other railcards will continue to offer discounts on off-peak fares and caps. In practice there will still be two caps but for many they will be set to the same figure. Railcards, like kids, will still get an off-peak cap. For railcards it will be 34% off the all day cap, but only on travel after 0930.
 

mrmartin

Member
Joined
17 Dec 2012
Messages
1,011
Reading the page on the TfL website suggests otherwise. The disabled railcard will offer a discount on all fares and caps while other railcards will continue to offer discounts on off-peak fares and caps. In practice there will still be two caps but for many they will be set to the same figure. Railcards, like kids, will still get an off-peak cap. For railcards it will be 34% off the all day cap, but only on travel after 0930.

Is this verified? So would the new cap be £5 (7.50 * 2/3rds)? If so, that's great news.

Edit: very confusing. In the same bullet points it says:

Adult-rate daily caps within Zones 1-6 will be charged at 20% of the equivalent 7 Day Travelcard price at all times; there will no longer be separate off-peak caps

Below it says National Railcard off-peak daily caps will continue to be charged at a discount of 34% off the adult rate
 
Last edited:

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
As long as the OP is prepared to argue with incorrectly trained Southern staff who promulgate the "off peak is after 9.30" myth.

A friend informs me that Southern's ticket barrier gestapo at Epsom are particularly obnoxious having refused to allow him through with a bike in accordance with Southern's own cycle policy!

I wonder if Peter Mugridge - or anyone else, would be prepared to book the £10.30 Travelcard the day before on the Southern website as below, print out the booking confirmation and turn up at Epsom at 0905 one morning then.

Capture.PNG
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,753
Location
Epsom
Well, no - that looks like a Southern only version and I usually travel via Ewell West as I get off at Wimbledon half the time... Besides, I pay £8.10 for the any permitted thanks to a railcard.

Not quite sure what I'll be paying after January; if it was a straight percentage rise on the off peak day travelcard that would be £10.95 but if the off peak is vanishing then it could be a bit more - I don't think I can get a discount on the peak card can I?:roll:
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
Well, no - that looks like a Southern only version and I usually travel via Ewell West as I get off at Wimbledon half the time... Besides, I pay £8.10 for the any permitted thanks to a railcard.

Not quite sure what I'll be paying after January; if it was a straight percentage rise on the off peak day travelcard that would be £10.95 but if the off peak is vanishing then it could be a bit more - I don't think I can get a discount on the peak card can I?:roll:

All depends what sort of railcard you have I guess! The Southern Only travelcard is available with a railcard for £6.80 assuming a minimum fare does not apply. No reason why a railcard discount can't be used on an Anytime ticket, but there's usually a minimum fare!
 

MikeWh

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 Jun 2010
Messages
7,865
Location
Crayford
All depends what sort of railcard you have I guess! The Southern Only travelcard is available with a railcard for £6.80 assuming a minimum fare does not apply. No reason why a railcard discount can't be used on an Anytime ticket, but there's usually a minimum fare!
Depends on the railcard. Two together cannot be used before 0930. Family and friends is similar unless the ticket is advance. Disabled can be used at all times. Each railcard has it's own set of restrictions.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
If it does, I would suggest that Southern might drastically reduce the price of their Anytime Day Travelcard route Southern Only. You can pay £6.80 instead of £8.10 now and use the 0914 to Victoria if you want to and as it arrives at Clapham Junction at 0942 you can get to Wimbledon at the same time as you currently do if you board the 0934 at Epsom.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Depends on the railcard. Two together cannot be used before 0930. Family and friends is similar unless the ticket is advance. Disabled can be used at all times. Each railcard has it's own set of restrictions.

I know, Mike, that's why I said that in the post you quoted ;) Also see above :P
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,753
Location
Epsom
You can pay £6.80 instead of £8.10 now and use the 0914 to Victoria if you want to and as it arrives at Clapham Junction at 0942 you can get to Wimbledon at the same time as you currently do if you board the 0934 at Epsom.

I'd then have to go the long way round to get back home wouldn't I?
 

MikeWh

Established Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
15 Jun 2010
Messages
7,865
Location
Crayford
Well the way I read what you said was obviously not what you were intending.
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,753
Location
Epsom
But I would then go round London from the rest of the day. The reson for disembarking at Wimbledon half the time is twofold:

1) Chasing new S7s for haulage.
2) Snappy Snaps at Wimbledon is the nearest place to Epsom where I can get high quality matt print photos done; everywhere in Epsom only does the inferior glossy ones. Yes, there's one in Sutton as well but it's further from the station... [/lazy]

To get back to the point, I'm still wondering what the one day paper travelcard is going to cost me from January...
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
23,224
Location
Bolton
I pay £8.10 with a railcard at the moment ( valid both routes ) so if the percentage rise is consistent I'd expect £10.95 from January with the railcard.

Your new fare is £8.40, Peter for an Any Permitted Epsom - London Zones 1-6. For Southern Only, the fare is £6.95.

First permitted departure of a South West trains service remains 0934, and first permitted departure on a Southern service remains 0920 for both tickets.


Capture.PNG
 

Peter Mugridge

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Apr 2010
Messages
14,753
Location
Epsom
Your new fare is £8.40, Peter for an Any Permitted Epsom - London Zones 1-6. For Southern Only, the fare is £6.95.

First permitted departure of a South West trains service remains 0934, and first permitted departure on a Southern service remains 0920 for both tickets.

Thanks. :D
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,265
Now that next year's National Rail fares are available, there is confirmation that the off-peak day travelcard is still available, (albeit at £12.00), as is an Anytime day travelcard, so 50% of the original thread title appears to have been completely wrong all along?
 

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
8,383
Location
Back office
Indeed.

I printed out one of the £8.00 Group Travelcards - it has come out as a one day season ticket!
 

CyrusWuff

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2013
Messages
3,944
Location
London
How did you manage to get hold of a Group One Day Travelcard?

By entering a date of 2nd January 2015 or later on his ticket machine. ;) Seriously though, the Group Day Travelcards now appear when you enter Zones 1-6, rather than explicitly needing you to choose them by entering Zone G123456 or Zone G123456789 as the destination.

Anyone want to bet how many get sold in error in the first couple of weeks?
 

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
8,383
Location
Back office
How did you manage to get hold of a Group One Day Travelcard?

Simon

What CyrusWuff said ^^ :)

By entering a date of 2nd January 2015 or later on his ticket machine. ;) Seriously though, the Group Day Travelcards now appear when you enter Zones 1-6, rather than explicitly needing you to choose them by entering Zone G123456 or Zone G123456789 as the destination.

Anyone want to bet how many get sold in error in the first couple of weeks?

Hopefully TIS machines will warn ticket sellers of the minimum group size of 10!

I get the impression from the list of changes this is a new product, also valid on NR services, that replaces the current Group Day Travelcard. It's not abundantly clear if it'll be available to buy from all stations in London, or if special stock is required.
 
Last edited:

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,539
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I get the impression from the list of changes this is a new product, also valid on NR services, that replaces the current Group Day Travelcard. It's not abundantly clear if it'll be available to buy from all stations in London, or if special stock is required.

It is indeed, and it's very much a good thing (except that it isn't that cheap) because it was always in my view silly that the old ticket was not valid on buses/some mainline routes.

Neil
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,151
Thanks for the answer; I assume its a requirement that the group must stay together at all times?

If 'yes' then its a shame....

Simon

Yes, the clue is in the name.

The group must travel together at all times.
 

Billy Hicks

Member
Joined
8 Dec 2014
Messages
30
Looking at the full table of fares now available, I'm over the moon.

When 16-25 Railcards were given the ability to load onto Oyster cards at the beginning of 2008, my Zone 1-3 off-peak travelcard fare shot down in price from £5.40 to £3.50. Since then each year it's been the following:

2009: £3.80
2010: £4.15
2011: £4.80
2012: £5.10
2013: £5.10
2014: £5.10

Looking back that is an astonishing increase up to 2012, but it's remained at that fare right up to now. Twice now I've assumed that when it does finally change, it's going to be a huge jump. Nope. As off-peak travelcards are continuing for Railcard holders, my new fare for Zone 1-3 Oyster will be £4.95, the lowest its been in four years and means that after just two tube journeys and one bus it gets capped and I'll already be saving. So I'm still paying less for a travelcard than what I was even back in 2007!

So, for me, it's worked out alright and it's finally made up for the massive increase of the early Boris years. Sadly my railcard runs out for good at the end of September next year so it won't be for long, but fun while it lasts.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top