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TfW Class 170's

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Rhydgaled

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It looks to me that the CAF trains that TfW have ordered for their long distance routes are going to be a similar layout to the 170’s. Surely, this is going to be a downgrade from the 175's?
Yes. There's also a CAF Civity for TfW topic if you want to discuss it further.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but going on previous posts your opinion seemed to be based on one single journey - and it seems strange to me that you mage such a large issue of it when 170s (and indeed 185s, 350s and other modern, comfortable units with ⅓ ⅔ doors) have been around for years without any kind of uproar from the general public. Unless you're standing besides the doors (and rest assured, passenger numbers on the HOWL mean that won't be an issue) as far as most people are concerned there is nothing wrong with the door layout.
Well, it was a single journey that changed my opinion on them. I don't think I ever really thought about the door layout until my brother (who I think falls into the 'general public' category, he's not a rail enthusiast at all) complained about a journey on a 170. That led me to my opinion that such stock should be restricted to certain services, but I've had plenty of trips one units with doors at thirds since then (mostly class 150s, but I've also done Newport-Gloucester on an XC 170 (which was horrible, no legroom) and a few other Turbostar/Electrostar/Desiro journeys). For me, the biggest issue is the provision of standing space (due to the wider doors) which isn't/shouldn't be needed for standees; I really resent that when my knees are crushed against the seat in front. Since I've been discussing the new CAF fleet alot recently, my mother (also not an enthusiast) has brought up the issue of draughts (particularly an issue on a cold winter's evening), which I think was a more-likely explanation of my brother's complaint. The issue of the toilets is one I'd hadn't even thought of myself, I showed my grandmother the impressions of the Civity DMUs and she thought it looked like there were no toilets and asked where could they put them on a 'doors at thirds' unit. I showed her class 170 and class 185 seat plans so that she could see they do have toilets and she was disgusted at the way they just open directly into the passenger saloon.

As for public uproar, I see to recall there was quite a vocal campaign against class 450s being put onto Portsmouth fasts. Admittedly the 2+3 seating probably has something to do with it as well, but given that the previous stock was a mix of 444s and Wessex Electrics the door layout was also a factor. I don't think there weren't similar complaints about 450s being used on the stoppers to Portsmouth (and it makes sense to me to use doors-at-thirds on that kind of service, passengers making longer trips will probably be on the faster services).

170s will be a massive game changer on these lines, and I'd be amazed if any of the regular passengers find reason to complain about them.
Indeed they will be a game-changer; on the Maesteg-Cheltenhams they are very close to what I would deem ideal and on the Heart Of Wales they'll be replacing the woeful class 150s and inadequate single 153s so there are benifits as well as drawbacks. Also, as Ian Walmsley has pointed out several times in Modern Railways passengers aren't particularly inclined to complain about uncomfortable seats. Quite understandably I would think since by the time the passengers are on the trains it's too late to do anything about them until the next refurbishment. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar 'suffering in silence' applies to other quality features. In a recent issue he also said something along the lines of 'expectations are being managed downwards train-by-train, but this doesn't work for motorists trying a train for the first time in a long while'. Since his Turbostar trip, I cannot think of another occasion that my brother has been on a train. I'm not saying the 170 put him off rail travel (I don't think he was keen anyway), but it may have done. That's why I bang on about wanting trains to be as good as they can be; if someone who wouldn't normally use the train has to for some reason I want them to be pleasantly surprised. That way, they might choose to travel by train again in future.

Isn't the 175 exactly what you described? Even built in the same factory as the 156s!
Almost, but not quite. The 175 is a 100mph unit. That might impact on fuel economy and/or acceleration away from the may stops on the Heart Of Wales compared to a 75mph unit like the class 156.
 
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MarkWiles

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I travelled on the Anglia units from Acle to London, and from Norwich to Basingstoke, when new. I found them very comfortable and excellent units on what were inter-city journeys. I don't think the layout on the three car units has changed much so I think they will be excellent on the HoW compared to what is in use now.

Incidentally the 156 units, despite the end doors, have a loo in the passenger saloon. I well remember my first trip in one from Birmingham to Norwich when a tiddly large man went in (I was sat in the seats opposite) and forgot to press the door lock button. Whilst he was in the loo, a woman with a child who needed the loo rushed down the coach to the loo and before I could say it was occupied, the child hit the button, and the door of the Tardis flew open to reveal said man with his trousers round his ankles. The woman let out an involuntary squeal and swiftly moved away as the man pulled his trousers up sheepishly exclaiming that he was an artist and "not used to technology". Perhaps locating a luggage rack opposite the loo might be a good idea.

For most people, perhaps more used to flying to their sunshine break than trains, the fact that most loos on aircraft are not well screened from the cabin (I once flew from Naples to Gatwick in a 737 in the row which backed onto the loo and could hear everything despite the noise - and smell it too) or perhaps accustomed to the occasional coach trip with a loo in the cabin, often with a coffee machine on top, the presence of a loo in the passenger area won't be such a problem especially if it means they don't have to struggle with multiple doors.
 

TheEdge

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170272 is looking very shiny and debranded. She can't be long for the Anglia world
 

anamyd

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170272 is looking very shiny and debranded. She can't be long for the Anglia world
Thanks for the info, so it seems the 3rd and 4th units to transfer will also be one 3-car and one 2-car (170208 and 170272) since the first two were 170207 and 170270. If anyone finds delivery schedules please post here!
 

PHILIPE

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Thanks for the info, so it seems the 3rd and 4th units to transfer will also be one 3-car and one 2-car (170208 and 170272) since the first two were 170207 and 170270. If anyone finds delivery schedules please post here!

Just keep looking at RTT
 

TheEdge

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If anyone finds delivery schedules please post here!

Keep checking Wymondham as the location in RTT, moves seem to happen on a Sunday morning.

Don't use Norwich, there are too many different Norwich start locations.
 

TheEdge

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If you ask for Newport you'll get everything

But we don't want everything, we want moves from Norwich to Cardiff. There are an awful lot less moves to trawl through at Wymondham than Newport, and at Wymondham only one will have Cardiff as a destination so it'll be easy to spot rather than the dozens a day that have Cardiff as a destination at Newport.
 

TheEdge

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Bob Price

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Agree,I scouring RTT brings all sorts up. Saw a 31 and single coach pass through on Wednesday, but that was a West Coast Rail working. 170's will be FT workings I believe.
 

hexagon789

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Almost, but not quite. The 175 is a 100mph unit. That might impact on fuel economy and/or acceleration away from the may stops on the Heart Of Wales compared to a 75mph unit like the class 156

Fuel economy possibly - no idea on that, though being younger the 175 might be more efficient.

As for acceleration a 175 is a good 20 seconds faster to 60mph; even a 170 is quicker to 60 than a 156 ;)
 

tomwills98

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Odd route, odd timings and odd day, possibly some DRS kit moving from Norwich to Cardiff ready for their loco hauled sets?

IIRC there was a 57 and a DVT move a few weeks ago now from Cardiff to Norwich. Perhaps it's move contracted Mk3 work to ease the load on CP.

I believe it's to bring a DVT down for an exam of some sort, they've been doing it for a while. I would have thought Crown Point have the resources to do it themselves, and that there would be a closer place than Cardiff to send them to.
 

TheEdge

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I believe it's to bring a DVT down for an exam of some sort, they've been doing it for a while. I would have thought Crown Point have the resources to do it themselves, and that there would be a closer place than Cardiff to send them to.

The thing with Crown Point is its a relatively small depot for what it does to start with and with redevelopment there to work on the Stadler fleet its capacity to handle work, especially on the Mk3s is really limited currently.

Ilford has taken a bit of the strain and a set goes to Bounds Green on a daily basis for work. Perhaps for some reason Cardiff is well equipped for more in depth work on DVTs that other nearer depots can't do.
 

anamyd

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Why hasn't today's run (post 127) been activated yet, more than an hour after scheduled departure time...?
 

dk1

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I travelled on the Anglia units from Acle to London, and from Norwich to Basingstoke, when new. I found them very comfortable and excellent units on what were inter-city journeys. I don't think the layout on the three car units has changed much.
I think you'll find the 3-cars have changed quite a bit. The 50-car now has only 7 first class seats at the driving end rather than all those that went right up to the next set of doors near the disabled area. Also the buffet counter & conductors compartment in the 56 (centre) car have been removed all again replaced with standard class seating.
 

anamyd

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staff were saying at the scene of 170207's delivery that they had 6 755s and only handed down one 170, anyway 170272 is now in Wales!
 

anamyd

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My masterpiece goes away after the unit pulls in, just to cover up spotter Banta :p
 
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