• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

TFW Class 175

Status
Not open for further replies.

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,137
Location
Liverpool
Just enjoying a ride in one of these for the first time en-route from Oxford Road to Manchester airport.

What a breath of fresh air after the horrible 156 EMR unit I was on before.

The seats actually align with the windows, its warm and rides a million times better than a 195. It's a proper train!
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Joined
20 Nov 2019
Messages
693
Location
Merthyr Tydfil
I love 175s. In case my user name and avatar aren't a clue I'm a huge fan of them. I'd say they're the best 100mph capable DMUs we have, their only real competition are the 185s.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,683
Location
Mold, Clwyd
They do need a refurb internally, but are nice units.
Ride can be a bit wobbly (so can 185s), but mostly smooth and quiet - the opposite of 195s.
They cruise very well too - Shrewsbury-Newport non-stop is a real pleasure in one on a fine day with long views.
There are no bad seats, and leg room/table layout is generous.
Often too small of course, too many 2-car ones running around on long-distance services.
The only thing the 4 operators (FNW, W&W, ATW, TfW) have never got right is the on-board PIS.
It's better than it was, but still very stern and pointlessly repetitive. THANK YOU!
 

Nick Ashwell

Member
Joined
20 Dec 2018
Messages
391
I must confess to not being as much a fan as others.
Personally I find the doors awful, and whilst not being the current standard when commuting to Pontypool a few years ago didn't find them at all comfortable compared to 158s which I sometimes got on the other leg of said journey (Chepstow to Newport).

Plus I guess I don't need to go into the spontaneous combustion issue.

As an aside was there a reason they were ordered over the Turbostars of the era? I'd guess delivery timetable or the fact they were the same order as Worst Groups 180s?
 
Joined
20 Nov 2019
Messages
693
Location
Merthyr Tydfil
I must confess to not being as much a fan as others.
Personally I find the doors awful, and whilst not being the current standard when commuting to Pontypool a few years ago didn't find them at all comfortable compared to 158s which I sometimes got on the other leg of said journey (Chepstow to Newport).

Plus I guess I don't need to go into the spontaneous combustion issue.

As an aside was there a reason they were ordered over the Turbostars of the era? I'd guess delivery timetable or the fact they were the same order as Worst Groups 180s?

Why do you find the doors bad? I have to disagree with you on the 158s, I find 175s much nicer to ride, not that 158s are bad.
 

Nick Ashwell

Member
Joined
20 Dec 2018
Messages
391
The seats on the 158s, at least as the WAG funded refurb go are much comfier than the 175s, with much better support, which considering the 175s routes does make me wonder.

With regards to the doors I find them slow, now they're not actually that slow however I feel the way they work makes them seen as such.
 
Joined
20 Nov 2019
Messages
693
Location
Merthyr Tydfil
The seats on the 158s, at least as the WAG funded refurb go are much comfier than the 175s, with much better support, which considering the 175s routes does make me wonder.

With regards to the doors I find them slow, now they're not actually that slow however I feel the way they work makes them seen as such.

Not as slow as a Voyager I don't think. I'll just have to agree to disagree with you on the seats, as I still think 175s are comfier.
 
Joined
20 Nov 2019
Messages
693
Location
Merthyr Tydfil
As a side note, I know the passenger information system gets on people's nerves (for some reason), but I really love the pleasant jingle that plays before an announcement. Makes me smile, don't know why. Could just be nostalgia.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,683
Location
Mold, Clwyd
As an aside was there a reason they were ordered over the Turbostars of the era? I'd guess delivery timetable or the fact they were the same order as Worst Groups 180s?

They were indeed ordered by First Group at the same time as the 180s - in fact, some 180s were due to go to FNW until their plans for NW-London were abandoned.
For a time at the start of privatisation, Alstom were in pole position for new orders (Junipers, Coradias and Pendolinos).
Adtranz were having great difficulty with getting Electrostars approved, while the Alstom traction package sailed through (comparatively).
But then they became over confident and produced badly-integrated rubbish out of Washwood Heath, so the Roscos switched to Desiros and then Electrostars.
The decisive moment was when Stagecoach went with Siemens 450s for SWT instead of Alstom Junipers.
Even Pendolinos were initially very troublesome, but there was no serious alternative for tilting trains at that point.
175s have always been maintained directly by Alstom at Chester, and eventually achieved some level of reliability for ATW.
CAF seems to have become the not-go-to manufacturer now, with poor build quality and delayed acceptance for Civitys at TPE/Northern.
Meanwhile Bombardier are in the dock again with Aventras.
Who'd be a train manufacturer for the UK market...
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
13,472
Location
Caerphilly
They do need a refurb internally, but are nice units.
Ride can be a bit wobbly (so can 185s), but mostly smooth and quiet - the opposite of 195s.
They cruise very well too - Shrewsbury-Newport non-stop is a real pleasure in one on a fine day with long views.
There are no bad seats, and leg room/table layout is generous.
Often too small of course, too many 2-car ones running around on long-distance services.
The only thing the 4 operators (FNW, W&W, ATW, TfW) have never got right is the on-board PIS.
It's better than it was, but still very stern and pointlessly repetitive. THANK YOU!

And an internal refurbish programme is ongoing at Widnes (Alstom) at the moment
 

Caaardiff

Member
Joined
9 Jun 2019
Messages
868
Some of the 2 car 175's have already had refurbished interiors done at Widnes. New seat covers, carpets and plug sockets fitted along with a general refresh inside and TfW paint job outside. Not sure when the 3 cars will start to go in but there is a program to have them all done.
I agree that the 158 seats are more comfortable than 175 seats. The extra height on the headrest provides good support.
 
Joined
20 Nov 2019
Messages
693
Location
Merthyr Tydfil
Some of the 2 car 175's have already had refurbished interiors done at Widnes. New seat covers, carpets and plug sockets fitted along with a general refresh inside and TfW paint job outside. Not sure when the 3 cars will start to go in but there is a program to have them all done.
I agree that the 158 seats are more comfortable than 175 seats. The extra height on the headrest provides good support.

I saw a three car 175 at Cardiff yesterday that was refurbished with the new livery. I'm afraid I can't remember the number though.

I'm really not a fan of those high back seats honestly, can't see over them to look out other windows in the train. The 175 seats are very comfy in my opinion.
 

hobbm013

Member
Joined
15 Apr 2019
Messages
171
I saw a three car 175 at Cardiff yesterday that was refurbished with the new livery. I'm afraid I can't remember the number though.

I'm really not a fan of those high back seats honestly, can't see over them to look out other windows in the train. The 175 seats are very comfy in my opinion.

That will be one of the ones repainted for Transport for Wales’ launch last year, it still has its ATW interior however
 

eisenach

Member
Joined
6 Feb 2014
Messages
169
Location
Leominster
I'm fairly certain it didn't. It had the new interior when I saw inside. Or did I imagine it?

I caught a TfW liveried one from Hereford to Leominster a couple of weeks or so ago. It had been newly fitted out inside, too, and was a welcome relief from the 80x I'd just been on from Oxford to Hereford. Much more pleasant inside, more comfortable and it rode well.
 

Philip

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
3,648
Location
Manchester
The reliability issues lasted too long; pretty awful for the first 3 or 4 years and despite improvement afterwards still not up to good levels until Longsight did some work on them around 2010-11. The problem with the hydrodynamic brake still hasn't been solved, hence being isolated.

The seats are comfy, the leg room good, good seat-window alignment and not overloaded with tables. However I find the lighting too bright to be 'comfortable'; Pendolinos and Voyagers have much more relaxing lighting. The First decor of purple and spearmint doesn't help in this aspect.

The PIS is annoying, it's a jumbled up mix of different voices and I'm not keen on the Wessex Trains/W&B voice used for listing the stops. The announcer who was originally used on these and also the FGW 180s sounded better.
 
Joined
20 Nov 2019
Messages
693
Location
Merthyr Tydfil
The reliability issues lasted too long; pretty awful for the first 3 or 4 years and despite improvement afterwards still not up to good levels until Longsight did some work on them around 2010-11. The problem with the hydrodynamic brake still hasn't been solved, hence being isolated.

The seats are comfy, the leg room good, good seat-window alignment and not overloaded with tables. However I find the lighting too bright to be 'comfortable'; Pendolinos and Voyagers have much more relaxing lighting. The First decor of purple and spearmint doesn't help in this aspect.

The PIS is annoying, it's a jumbled up mix of different voices and I'm not keen on the Wessex Trains/W&B voice used for listing the stops. The announcer who was originally used on these and also the FGW 180s sounded better.

See I find the lighting on Pendolinos and Voyagers too dark, makes me feel tired. And people make such a song and dance about how awful the PIS systems are on all trains, just wear headphones if they bother you too much. They never last too long, get over it, it's just a voice. I prefer it over a bored sounding guard.

Plus the nice jingle plays before announcements, which I like. :)
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
175107 (3-car) and 175003 (2-car) are the two ATW interior-ed TfW launch wrap 175s; only some 2-car 175s have been fully TfW refurbed so far (175001/002/006/009/011). I must say that having now been on "001" I'm disappointed by the poor quality internal job done by "Alstom Widnes Transport Technology Centre in 2019-20" - I won't go into details just yet but it worries me that they were proud enough to put that on a plaque...
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
I must confess to not being as much a fan as others.
Personally I find the doors awful, and whilst not being the current standard when commuting to Pontypool a few years ago didn't find them at all comfortable compared to 158s which I sometimes got on the other leg of said journey (Chepstow to Newport).

Plus I guess I don't need to go into the spontaneous combustion issue.

As an aside was there a reason they were ordered over the Turbostars of the era? I'd guess delivery timetable or the fact they were the same order as Worst Groups 180s?
The order was placed in 1997 by North West Trains. FNW just acquired it before it was delivered, a bit like LNER with the "Virgin Azumas"
 

Grumpy Git

On Moderation
Joined
13 Oct 2019
Messages
2,137
Location
Liverpool
175107 (3-car) and 175003 (2-car) are the two ATW interior-ed TfW launch wrap 175s; only some 2-car 175s have been fully TfW refurbed so far (175001/002/006/009/011). I must say that having now been on "001" I'm disappointed by the poor quality internal job done by "Alstom Widnes Transport Technology Centre in 2019-20" - I won't go into details just yet but it worries me that they were proud enough to put that on a plaque...

I despair when I hear these stories. I think the works managers must have no practical background and have been paper shuffling jockeys since leaving school?

They wouldn't roll out a substandard job if I was in charge. What happened to pride in your work or are the craftsmen badly trained as well?
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
I despair when I hear these stories. I think the works managers must have no practical background and have been paper shuffling jockeys since leaving school?

They wouldn't roll out a substandard job if I was in charge. What happened to pride in your work or are the craftsmen badly trained as well?
Maybe it's Alstom tradition...? I find it odd how no-one else has mentioned it. They look really good on the outside and through the windows from outside but that's about it. I'll dig out my paper note, hang on...

175001, 6/12/19 (things are in a random order):

The inverter for the new power sockets...? in Coach A has some messy tape on it
Live/manual PA announcements accompanied by interference (a whine)
Some Alstom passenger door sill badges missing
Hand dryer in accessible toilet not working
Accessible toilet door takes several presses of the close button to close
Some wear to some surfaces remains - marks / gouges on edges of tables and overhead luggage racks, marks on round pieces on armrests, marks on PIS screen casing and ceiling panels, dirt / dust on inside of ceiling light diffusers, and even a hole in a vestibule to saloon door frame panel...

Maybe TfW didn't want an "Arriva 158 in 2011-2012" quality refurb on the 175s because they only have a few years left with them...?
 
Last edited:

Nick Ashwell

Member
Joined
20 Dec 2018
Messages
391
Maybe it's Alstom tradition...? I find it odd how no-one else has mentioned it. They look really good on the outside and through the windows from outside but that's about it. I'll dig out my paper note, hang on...

175001, 6/12/19 (things are in a random order):

The inverter for the new power sockets...? in Coach A has some messy tape on it
Live/manual PA announcements accompanied by interference (a whine)
Some Alstom passenger door sill badges missing
Hand dryer in accessible toilet not working
Accessible toilet door takes several presses of the close button to close
Some wear to some surfaces remains - marks / gouges on edges of tables, overhead luggage racks, marks on round pieces on armrests, marks on PIS screen casing and ceiling panels, dirt / dust on inside of ceiling light diffusers, and even a hole in a vestibule to saloon door frame panel...

Maybe TfW didn't want an "Arriva 158 in 2011-2012" quality refurb on the 175s because they only have a few years left with them...?

But they weren't Arriva referbs, they were WAG refurbs. Unlike the 175s which are being refurbed in the way most rolling stock is the 158 updates were WAG funded with a lot more money available than a standard refurb. The amount of cash of course makes a bug difference to what can be done and the quality of the work
 

Philip

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
3,648
Location
Manchester
175107 (3-car) and 175003 (2-car) are the two ATW interior-ed TfW launch wrap 175s; only some 2-car 175s have been fully TfW refurbed so far (175001/002/006/009/011). I must say that having now been on "001" I'm disappointed by the poor quality internal job done by "Alstom Widnes Transport Technology Centre in 2019-20" - I won't go into details just yet but it worries me that they were proud enough to put that on a plaque...

Not a bad refurb, but underwhelming given the hype and looks more like a refresh than a full refurbishment. Not in the same league as the 185 refurbishment.
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
Not a bad refurb, but underwhelming given the hype and looks more like a refresh than a full refurbishment. Not in the same league as the 185 refurbishment.
"Refresh" is the word indeed
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
But they weren't Arriva referbs, they were WAG refurbs. Unlike the 175s which are being refurbed in the way most rolling stock is the 158 updates were WAG funded with a lot more money available than a standard refurb. The amount of cash of course makes a bug difference to what can be done and the quality of the work
That's a good point. I was wondering about the budget
 
Joined
20 Nov 2019
Messages
693
Location
Merthyr Tydfil
Haven't been on a refurbished 175 yet. Somehow I keep avoiding them.

And apparently I should keep avoiding them, if this thread is anything to go by!
 

anamyd

On Moderation
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
3,011
Haven't been on a refurbished 175 yet. Somehow I keep avoiding them.

And apparently I should keep avoiding them, if this thread is anything to go by!
I wouldn't say avoid, just don't expect "like new". Although really the toilet door and hand dryer should at least work
 

Sion John

On Moderation
Joined
4 Jul 2018
Messages
167
Location
Llanelli
That will be one of the ones repainted for Transport for Wales’ launch last year, it still has its ATW interior however
Its 175107 but just in TfW liverly only and no phone chargers just like you said rebishished on the outside
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top