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TfW found to be worst TOC in the UK

opinion on tfw services

  • happy

    Votes: 41 21.9%
  • neutral

    Votes: 78 41.7%
  • unhappy

    Votes: 68 36.4%

  • Total voters
    187
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DorkingMain

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Doesn't need to be a DMU. North Wales was predominantly run loco+coaches years after that had disappeared elsewhere. Countless ones of those were available.
What PRM compliant coaches are available, aside Mk4s which they jumped straight on?
 
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wobman

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People forget using non prm compliant loco and stock sets would require dispensation from the DFT, then they need security of board and at stations on route. Tfw used a 37 and coaches in the south and it was a nightmare to run, having trained staff is very complicated as it were the units get maintained etc

Tfw got the ex GC mk4 sets and they need extensive mods and tfw are looking for more but the 67s need extensive mods aswell. There's traincrew training on top of other training needed whilst running services.

Using DMUs is far easier for tfw and they are trying to get anything available, there's just nothing available .
 

tomuk

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Joined
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Messages
1,953
People forget using non prm compliant loco and stock sets would require dispensation from the DFT
No we don't forget and the dispensation is from the Minister not the DFT. I don't think they wouldn't allow a dispensation because its not exactly levelling up if TfW said all trains to Merthyr are cancelled because Grant Shapps says no.

Too many cheapshots at TFW.
Not enough cheap shots I'm afraid. Run a proper service, communicate with your passengers properly, stop blaming others and people might be happier.
 

Bluejays

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Joined
19 Sep 2017
Messages
475
Agree with the poster above who suggests an emergency timetable, it seems the only sensible solution. I do wonder if tfw have a good enough handle on where they are lacking to be able to properly implement it mind. Would like to see them.be more aggressive in chasing the rest of the stored 153s, fight for the dispensations and get them in of possible
 

Caaardiff

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Joined
9 Jun 2019
Messages
851
You suggested forcibly moving train crew rest days although you've since deleted that so perhaps you've realised how completely unreasonable (and impossible) that would be. Saturdays are part of the working week, same as Mon-Fri, but you must be able to see that they are more popular for leave due to outside commitments and the fact that most of the country operates on those being days off. Staff take the job knowing they are expected to work Saturdays (and committed Sundays) but also knowing they are as entitled to use their leave as anyone in any other industry. Equally, train crew who are off don't really want to give up their Saturdays, same as I'm sure most people in other industries wouldn't.

Your frustration seems to be at staff and particularly unions but as has been said, front line staff don't design the diagrams, the depot establishment, the training processes, aslef want sundays in the week and train crew can't be expected to tell you why TFW aren't making public announcements, because they don't know.
I've never said anything about moving train crew rest days, so not sure where you've got that from. I've also never said train crew should be forced to work overtime, and I also haven't edited or deleted any of my posts.
What I have said is there's an outdated setup within the railway that isn't fit for purpose of running a 24/7 operation, hence my comment about the setup not being in the interest of the passener.
I've been told by train crew myself that there would be many unhappy train crew and unions if overtime opportunities were taken away from train crew, and that if Sundays were to become part of the working week that they would expect pay rises to match that of the overtime being earned.

What's the solution as I see it? All new contracts are separate from old contracts, Sunday is part of the working week and wages remain the same. I don't believe that pay rises should automatically be given based on overtime that is earned because overtime shouldn't be guaranteed. Old contracts stay as they are until eventually the fizzle out, with some level of overtime still being made available for old contract staff if they want it as an option. If anyone wants to move to a Sunday contract then a relevant pay rise should be due but not the expected big pay rise. Working weekends works for some people.
There has to be a balance, and we all know the railway doesn't allow for balance, and it's unlikely separate contracts would ever be allowed by unions. It happens in many different companies. BA being one of the biggest examples.

I disagree, what was needed was any old train, but they went down what's been proved to be the silly rabbit hole of entertaining experimental recycling of old trains. That's the fault of one or more of them - somebody made that decision.
Every TOC is the uk is scrambling for additional stock. The issue for TfW is that only 150's can work Taf Valley lines. The 170's were brought in to work their current routes and the long term plan was to move the to West Wales. Whichever person didn't do their homework to realise the work required to get them cleared via the VOG or past Bridgend should've been sacked, as they have been very much under utilised at a time when TfW needed stock and they are ideal for Cardiff - Swansea/Carmarthen trips. No other TOC was willing to give up stock suitable for TfW's requirements.
In an ideal world a few more 150's and 158's would've been perfect. Minimal training, common fleet and can work the majority of the network, but they weren't forthcoming.



A lot of blame has been put on Covid for the delays in training, but the reality is if the 769's and 230's were in service on time (I think they were due to be in service by late 2018 and 2019 respectively?) then training wouldn't have even been happening during Covid.

The next 6 months is going to be a rough ride. And even then the introduction of the new fleets will be a challenge if only a fraction of train crew are trained up at the start, unless train crew workings are specifically designed to work a specific roster to cover 197's usage, otherwise there'll be all manner of unit workings.

People forget using non prm compliant loco and stock sets would require dispensation from the DFT, then they need security of board and at stations on route. Tfw used a 37 and coaches in the south and it was a nightmare to run, having trained staff is very complicated as it were the units get maintained etc

Tfw got the ex GC mk4 sets and they need extensive mods and tfw are looking for more but the 67s need extensive mods aswell. There's traincrew training on top of other training needed whilst running services.

Using DMUs is far easier for tfw and they are trying to get anything available, there's just nothing available .
There's only been one out the past week. There's one been parked up in Chester for several days and another hasn't been seen out for at least a week. So appears to be maintenance issues arising with them already.

Agree with the poster above who suggests an emergency timetable, it seems the only sensible solution. I do wonder if tfw have a good enough handle on where they are lacking to be able to properly implement it mind. Would like to see them.be more aggressive in chasing the rest of the stored 153s, fight for the dispensations and get them in of possible
They've issued a short notice timetable today and tomorrow for the storm, so it should be possible. Probably a huge amount of political pressure to maintain the service though.
It's unlikely they would allow any more unmodified 153's in service, they would at least need the basic mods which takes about 3-4 weeks per unit. With there still being some left to do it may be March by the time any additional units would be in service and they'd only get a few months out of them until the new fleet starts to be introduced.
 

Bluejays

Member
Joined
19 Sep 2017
Messages
475
I've never said anything about moving train crew rest days, so not sure where you've got that from. I've also never said train crew should be forced to work overtime, and I also haven't edited or deleted any of my posts.
What I have said is there's an outdated setup within the railway that isn't fit for purpose of running a 24/7 operation, hence my comment about the setup not being in the interest of the passener.
I've been told by train crew myself that there would be many unhappy train crew and unions if overtime opportunities were taken away from train crew, and that if Sundays were to become part of the working week that they would expect pay rises to match that of the overtime being earned.

What's the solution as I see it? All new contracts are separate from old contracts, Sunday is part of the working week and wages remain the same. I don't believe that pay rises should automatically be given based on overtime that is earned because overtime shouldn't be guaranteed. Old contracts stay as they are until eventually the fizzle out, with some level of overtime still being made available for old contract staff if they want it as an option. If anyone wants to move to a Sunday contract then a relevant pay rise should be due but not the expected big pay rise. Working weekends works for some people.
There has to be a balance, and we all know the railway doesn't allow for balance, and it's unlikely separate contracts would ever be allowed by unions. It happens in many different companies. BA being one of the biggest examples.


Every TOC is the uk is scrambling for additional stock. The issue for TfW is that only 150's can work Taf Valley lines. The 170's were brought in to work their current routes and the long term plan was to move the to West Wales. Whichever person didn't do their homework to realise the work required to get them cleared via the VOG or past Bridgend should've been sacked, as they have been very much under utilised at a time when TfW needed stock and they are ideal for Cardiff - Swansea/Carmarthen trips. No other TOC was willing to give up stock suitable for TfW's requirements.
In an ideal world a few more 150's and 158's would've been perfect. Minimal training, common fleet and can work the majority of the network, but they weren't forthcoming.



A lot of blame has been put on Covid for the delays in training, but the reality is if the 769's and 230's were in service on time (I think they were due to be in service by late 2018 and 2019 respectively?) then training wouldn't have even been happening during Covid.

The next 6 months is going to be a rough ride. And even then the introduction of the new fleets will be a challenge if only a fraction of train crew are trained up at the start, unless train crew workings are specifically designed to work a specific roster to cover 197's usage, otherwise there'll be all manner of unit workings.


There's only been one out the past week. There's one been parked up in Chester for several days and another hasn't been seen out for at least a week. So appears to be maintenance issues arising with them already.


They've issued a short notice timetable today and tomorrow for the storm, so it should be possible. Probably a huge amount of political pressure to maintain the service though.
It's unlikely they would allow any more unmodified 153's in service, they would at least need the basic mods which takes about 3-4 weeks per unit. With there still being some left to do it may be March by the time any additional units would be in service and they'd only get a few months out of them until the new fleet starts to be introduced.
I just wondered if they'd have a chance of dispensations in terms of running unmodified 153s with toilets locked out, as long as they were attached to a 150. Especially if they took the 'nuclear option" of alerting the press as to their availability. The tfw shambles is virtually headline news in Wales most days at the moment, would be a brave politician who refused to issue a dispensation
 

Parallel

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Joined
9 Dec 2013
Messages
3,927
I just wondered if they'd have a chance of dispensations in terms of running unmodified 153s with toilets locked out, as long as they were attached to a 150. Especially if they took the 'nuclear option" of alerting the press as to their availability. The tfw shambles is virtually headline news in Wales most days at the moment, would be a brave politician who refused to issue a dispensation
I was on a TfW 153 (that was actually painted EMT colours on the outside and had a FGW livery inside) and the toilet (a non compliant one) was open and available for use, despite being coupled to a PRM 153. This train was working a Holyhead to Maesteg service and was around 30 minutes late by Hereford.
 

Sheridan

Member
Joined
11 Jan 2012
Messages
389
I was on a TfW 153 (that was actually painted EMT colours on the outside and had a FGW livery inside) and the toilet (a non compliant one) was open and available for use, despite being coupled to a PRM 153. This train was working a Holyhead to Maesteg service and was around 30 minutes late by Hereford.
If this was the case it was probably not deliberate, as all the non-compliant 153s have the toilets locked out, and require keys separate from those issued to traincrew to unlock. It’s not inconceivable someone may have managed to defeat the lock, of course.
 

craigybagel

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Joined
25 Oct 2012
Messages
5,061
What's the solution as I see it? All new contracts are separate from old contracts, Sunday is part of the working week and wages remain the same. I don't believe that pay rises should automatically be given based on overtime that is earned because overtime shouldn't be guaranteed. Old contracts stay as they are until eventually the fizzle out, with some level of overtime still being made available for old contract staff if they want it as an option. If anyone wants to move to a Sunday contract then a relevant pay rise should be due but not the expected big pay rise. Working weekends works for some people.
There has to be a balance, and we all know the railway doesn't allow for balance, and it's unlikely separate contracts would ever be allowed by unions. It happens in many different companies. BA being one of the biggest examples.
The whole Sunday and overtime thing is a red herring. As myself and my colleagues have pointed out several times, you can't just avoid Sundays entirely. I've no desire to work this Sunday at all but I'm contractually obliged to do so.

The issue is not enough staff in general - thanks to Covid slowing down the rate of training. Simple.

You could make every Sunday compulsory for every member of staff, but if you don't have enough staff to begin with you're still going to end up cancelling trains.
In an ideal world a few more 150's and 158's would've been perfect. Minimal training, common fleet and can work the majority of the network, but they weren't forthcoming.
Very true. But as you say, none forthcoming.
A lot of blame has been put on Covid for the delays in training, but the reality is if the 769's and 230's were in service on time (I think they were due to be in service by late 2018 and 2019 respectively?) then training wouldn't have even been happening during Covid.
One thing we should be thankful for is that one of the original TfW's first moves was to order replacements for the 769s (alongside the rest of the Valleys fleet) - meaning that at least they're not stuck having to make them work in the long term, unlike Northern and GWR who are stuck with them despite their obvious failings and have no realistic alternatives available.
The next 6 months is going to be a rough ride. And even then the introduction of the new fleets will be a challenge if only a fraction of train crew are trained up at the start, unless train crew workings are specifically designed to work a specific roster to cover 197's usage, otherwise there'll be all manner of unit workings.
Which is why Chester - Liverpool is likely to be the first route to see 197s
There's only been one out the past week. There's one been parked up in Chester for several days and another hasn't been seen out for at least a week. So appears to be maintenance issues arising with them already.
It's not necessarily mechanical issues keeping the MKIVs out of service. Every time a set leaves Cardiff, it requires at least 4 drivers and 4 guards to work the entire round-trip to Holyhead and back to Cardiff again - sometimes more. If any one of those jobs is unable to be covered with competent traincrew then the entire round-trip usually needs to be worked by a unit instead. The MKIV training has come on leaps and bounds but there are still crew at the 4 depots concerned who need training.

If this was the case it was probably not deliberate, as all the non-compliant 153s have the toilets locked out, and require keys separate from those issued to traincrew to unlock. It’s not inconceivable someone may have managed to defeat the lock, of course.
I believe it's only the PPM lite 153s that have had the toilet lock replaced - I think the non PPM sets still have the original T-Key operated lock, though I'm open to correction. It's so rare to see the Non PPM sets around now,I haven't had to prep one in months
 
Last edited:

krus_aragon

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10 Jun 2009
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6,042
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North Wales
Fine, I have no idea what the length restrictions in the South are. If only 20m coaches can be used (why?) then why on earth are they using them up here where anything is OK?
Tight curves around Radyr mean that long (23m+) stock can't be run to Pontypridd, Merthyr, Aberdare and Treherbert. Anywhere else (e.g. Rhymney via Caerphilly) is no problem.
 

Zontar

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17 May 2021
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Planned closed booking office at Wrexham this morning, advised in advance. Seems an inability to resource staff.

Then hop on to a train that was late, feeble announcement by I assume the driver " should be going shortly"....15 mins later the guard arrives and then we go.

Basics in my opinion, aren't being met.
 

wobman

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2 Jan 2011
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Planned closed booking office at Wrexham this morning, advised in advance. Seems an inability to resource staff.

Then hop on to a train that was late, feeble announcement by I assume the driver " should be going shortly"....15 mins later the guard arrives and then we go.

Basics in my opinion, aren't being met.
Just wondering if you noticed about there being another storm last nite ?
Tfw have 12 trains out of service from the last storm and there's lots of infrastructure damage in the area.
Traincrew unfortunately get delayed in such weather, especially as there has been line speed restrictions and closures.
There are notices on national rail and tocs sites and notices at many stations about the disruption caused by the weather, unfortunately tfw can't control the weather.

The driver in question won't know any details, just that they are waiting for the conductor. Probably delayed due to the weather.
 

Bikeman78

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26 Apr 2018
Messages
4,493
There is still non PRM compliant stock running now, unrefurbed 153s in Lincolnshire for example.
Also class 321s out of Liverpool Street. Getting rid of the Pacers was down to politics rather than any practical concerns.
 

jettofab

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Joined
2 May 2020
Messages
45
Location
North West
I've never said anything about moving train crew rest days, so not sure where you've got that from. I've also never said train crew should be forced to work overtime, and I also haven't edited or deleted any of my posts.
What I have said is there's an outdated setup within the railway that isn't fit for purpose of running a 24/7 operation, hence my comment about the setup not being in the interest of the passener.
I've been told by train crew myself that there would be many unhappy train crew and unions if overtime opportunities were taken away from train crew, and that if Sundays were to become part of the working week that they would expect pay rises to match that of the overtime being earned.

What's the solution as I see it? All new contracts are separate from old contracts, Sunday is part of the working week and wages remain the same. I don't believe that pay rises should automatically be given based on overtime that is earned because overtime shouldn't be guaranteed. Old contracts stay as they are until eventually the fizzle out, with some level of overtime still being made available for old contract staff if they want it as an option. If anyone wants to move to a Sunday contract then a relevant pay rise should be due but not the expected big pay rise. Working weekends works for some people.
There has to be a balance, and we all know the railway doesn't allow for balance, and it's unlikely separate contracts would ever be allowed by unions. It happens in many different companies. BA being one of the biggest examples.


Every TOC is the uk is scrambling for additional stock. The issue for TfW is that only 150's can work Taf Valley lines. The 170's were brought in to work their current routes and the long term plan was to move the to West Wales. Whichever person didn't do their homework to realise the work required to get them cleared via the VOG or past Bridgend should've been sacked, as they have been very much under utilised at a time when TfW needed stock and they are ideal for Cardiff - Swansea/Carmarthen trips. No other TOC was willing to give up stock suitable for TfW's requirements.
In an ideal world a few more 150's and 158's would've been perfect. Minimal training, common fleet and can work the majority of the network, but they weren't forthcoming.



A lot of blame has been put on Covid for the delays in training, but the reality is if the 769's and 230's were in service on time (I think they were due to be in service by late 2018 and 2019 respectively?) then training wouldn't have even been happening during Covid.

The next 6 months is going to be a rough ride. And even then the introduction of the new fleets will be a challenge if only a fraction of train crew are trained up at the start, unless train crew workings are specifically designed to work a specific roster to cover 197's usage, otherwise there'll be all manner of unit workings.


There's only been one out the past week. There's one been parked up in Chester for several days and another hasn't been seen out for at least a week. So appears to be maintenance issues arising with them already.


They've issued a short notice timetable today and tomorrow for the storm, so it should be possible. Probably a huge amount of political pressure to maintain the service though.
It's unlikely they would allow any more unmodified 153's in service, they would at least need the basic mods which takes about 3-4 weeks per unit. With there still being some left to do it may be March by the time any additional units would be in service and they'd only get a few months out of them until the new fleet starts to be introduced.
You're quite right, my apologies. I had confused you with someone with a similar name, my fault entirely.
 

Zontar

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Joined
17 May 2021
Messages
392
Location
Birmingham
Just wondering if you noticed about there being another storm last nite ?
Tfw have 12 trains out of service from the last storm and there's lots of infrastructure damage in the area.
Traincrew unfortunately get delayed in such weather, especially as there has been line speed restrictions and closures.
There are notices on national rail and tocs sites and notices at many stations about the disruption caused by the weather, unfortunately tfw can't control the weather.

The driver in question won't know any details, just that they are waiting for the conductor. Probably delayed due to the weather.
I was well aware of the storm, it was also anticipated and we'll documented in the news. However, I appreciate this may have a knock on effect with staffing.

The booking office is also well displayed to be closed during peak times, due to not enough staff.

Both I would say we're no surprise to TFW.
 

PHILIPE

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TFW seem to have been abandoning pasengers at out of the way locations for varying reaons with no information, no staff ,or such as oad transport developments
 

mmh

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13 Aug 2016
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3,744
I just wondered if they'd have a chance of dispensations in terms of running unmodified 153s with toilets locked out, as long as they were attached to a 150. Especially if they took the 'nuclear option" of alerting the press as to their availability. The tfw shambles is virtually headline news in Wales most days at the moment, would be a brave politician who refused to issue a dispensation
They already do run unmodified 153s. I was on one a few days ago. It had signs on and around the toilet saying "use the toilet in another part of the train," the other part of the train was a modified 153.
 

wobman

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They already do run unmodified 153s. I was on one a few days ago. It had signs on and around the toilet saying "use the toilet in another part of the train," the other part of the train was a modified 153.
The Liverpools and crewe shuttles are regularly an unmodded and modded 153 together, the modded / refurbished 153s are so much better than the non prm units and far more reliable!
 

wobman

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Pardon my naivety but why are the toilets locked out on 153’s?
Its Because when you flush the toilet it goes onto the track and that's not allowed anymore, modded units get retention tanks thank goodness they do.
 

markymark2000

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TfW should just book in a load of fast & stopping replacement buses for the Valleys now rather than announcing a long list of cancellations on the day and leaving people stranded. At least then people can plan. Because if there's a weekend that train crew are not going to want to work overtime, it will be that one.
Just to throw some things out there for you on this. While I would like to see things work as you say, it is impossible to do. There is a shortage of operators in Wales with vehicles and more specifically PSVAR vehicles. On the recent Llandudno Junction to Holyhead blocks, an operator from the West Midlands had to be drafted in to do some of the work seemingly because there wasn't enough local operators to take on the work. The Barmouth Block is using Watts and Lakeside on at least one duty each. They are miles away.

There isn't enough local operators with compliant vehicles to take on the work and where an operator has compliant buses, they either have other work on, for example Llew Jones has a lot of holiday stuff, or they don't have enough drivers.



What needs to happen, not just with TFW, but more wider amongst Rail Operators is acceptance on local buses, Similar to how Metrolink has started going with GoNorthWest, so then when things go up the wall, there is an immediate backup plan in place to get people moving up or down the line, even if albeit much slower, it gets people moving. For the Coast, there are a number of examples where routes duplicate over the train line and while the 11 from Rhyl to Chester is not a viable option as it would fill up and leave no space for shorter distance passengers, Flint and Shotton to Chester on the 10/10A or Rhyl to Abergele/Colwyn Bay on the 12, these are example where it could work meaning replacement coaches can be sped up or more focussed on the areas which are having issues. It won't work for all but if you can move some people, it's better than moving no one. I note that TFW is doing some ticket acceptance with Cardiff bus currently and that is a good start, I'd hope to see this expanded into more areas, especially where it is easy to do so such as Traws Cymru
 

Bluejays

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They already do run unmodified 153s. I was on one a few days ago. It had signs on and around the toilet saying "use the toilet in another part of the train," the other part of the train was a modified 153.
It seems to me that they need to bring in more of the off lease 153's then. Get them attached to the prm compliant 150s on the Rhymney route
 

tomuk

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But the ban on non retention tank toilets is a Network Rail rule not a PRM issue. A train can be PRM compliant even if doesn't have a toilet, there 376s running in South London with no toilets. The new tram trains won't.
Could TfW assign non toilet /non PRM 153s and dare I say pacers before their withdrawal to shorter trips from Cardiff. If it was planned correctly you could provide additional toilets at stations and an accesible taxi/bus to cope with any wheelchair users.
 

mrd269697

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Another dreadful day of cancellations, due to (what can only agitate passengers) resource availability. Pretty much all Bidston - Wrexham services cancelled all day
 

wobman

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But the ban on non retention tank toilets is a Network Rail rule not a PRM issue. A train can be PRM compliant even if doesn't have a toilet, there 376s running in South London with no toilets. The new tram trains won't.
Could TfW assign non toilet /non PRM 153s and dare I say pacers before their withdrawal to shorter trips from Cardiff. If it was planned correctly you could provide additional toilets at stations and an accesible taxi/bus to cope with any wheelchair users.
The new stadler tram trains have no toilets, I think the pacers being removed From service was more of a political decision. Plus nobody knew the pandemic would happen, if covid hadn't happened tfw would have been in a far better position.

The training backlog wouldn't exist, the new rolling stock would be more advanced in there introduction. The 230s and 769s are just mistakes to be honest though.
 

PHILIPE

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But the ban on non retention tank toilets is a Network Rail rule not a PRM issue. A train can be PRM compliant even if doesn't have a toilet, there 376s running in South London with no toilets. The new tram trains won't.
Could TfW assign non toilet /non PRM 153s and dare I say pacers before their withdrawal to shorter trips from Cardiff. If it was planned correctly you could provide additional toilets at stations and an accesible taxi/bus to cope with any wheelchair users.

They already do by employing single 153sx with de-commision toileted on jobs as Coryton, Caerphilly and Cardidf Bay
 

Caaardiff

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851
The Liverpools and crewe shuttles are regularly an unmodded and modded 153 together, the modded / refurbished 153s are so much better than the non prm units and far more reliable!
There are now only 2 unmodified 153's in service, that's completely unrefurbished in the original state they arrived from the previous operator. These 2 will be getting full PRM mods in the next few weeks (Including toilets). All of the prm light mods, which is basically all prm accessible modifications except the toilet change are either complete or the final 2 are currently in Landore.
In terms of reliability of the train, the PRM mods make no difference, it's still the same under the carriage. PRM mods are just making them more accessible and easy to use for persons with reduced mobility.

It seems to me that they need to bring in more of the off lease 153's then. Get them attached to the prm compliant 150s on the Rhymney route
This would make total sense in the short term. However dispensation for these units means they would need to go the PRM light modifications before being allowed into service. Dispensation runs out the end of this month for unmodified units. It's not just about toilets, it's about signage and the ability for persons with reduced mobility to navigate the train.
That would mean more expensive for a very short term solution. The PRM mods take around 3-4 weeks. The program is still ongoing until around the end of January. That means any additional units that would be taken on wouldn't be in service until around March time. To get say 4 units done and in service with mods would likely be around May/June time, which is when the new fleet will likely start going into service, which I can't see TfW justifying the cost.

The current refurbishment state is:
175 - The last 175 is in for refurbishment and should be done by the end of this month
158 - Currently 1 in and I think 2 more 158's to be done which should be done by around February
153 - Currently 2 in and 2 more 153's to get the full mods (with toilet) which should be done around February.
150 - Currently 1 in and a long term ongoing program.

That means by February there will be 4 additional units back in service. The common sense choice should be to postpone the 150 refurb program until the middle of next year
 
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