TFW introduces Pay As You Go in South East Wales

[MrJeeves]

Of note for this, they appear to have abandoned the idea of upgrading the exisiting Cubic infustructure and have installed a set of Vix gates at Newport, I believe the same for Cardiff also. Note that they haven't done a like for like replacement rather 1 wide asile gate from what I remember.

Indeed. Here's some pictures of it at Newport from the start of November last year.

 

[mattdickinson]

The area of coverage has extended to Ebbw Vale.

 

[AdamWW]

The area of coverage has extended to Ebbw Vale.

Does anyone know where I can find prices for contactless journeys? I'm probably being stupid but I've looked on the TfW web site and all I can find is some "examples".

Also - I presume that if you break a journey it will get charged as two separate journeys but again if someone can point me to where anything is written down about this I'd be grateful.

The zone system looks a little odd, lumping Newport in with Cardiff but having Caerphilly in a separate zone.

 

[Haywain]

Does anyone know where I can find prices for contactless journeys?

This page on the TfW site shows some sample fares and capping details, whilst BRFares.com appears to show the PAYG single fares for the relevant journeys.

I presume that if you break a journey it will get charged as two separate journeys

That tends to be normal for PAYG systems but it varies, and the daily cap would put a ceiling on what is paid.

 

[AdamWW]

This page on the TfW site shows some sample fares and capping details, whilst BRFares.com appears to show the PAYG single fares for the relevant journeys.

Thanks. But to find out what I'm going to be charged unless I happen to be making a journey on the sample list, it seems a bit unhelpful if I have to use an unofficial information source.

That tends to be normal for PAYG systems but it varies, and the daily cap would put a ceiling on what is paid.

All true but since it does indeed vary and they say that they will make sure you're not charged more than paper tickets would have cost you, I'd be interested to know what way TfW have chosen to go.

 

[mattdickinson]

The TfW payg scheme has now been extended to Maesteg and Abergavenny.

Pay as you go travel | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

A zonal map has also been released showing the eventual coverage for the scheme.

 

[AdamWW]

The TfW payg scheme has now been extended to Maesteg and Abergavenny.

Pay as you go travel | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

A zonal map has also been released showing the eventual coverage for the scheme.
View attachment 167708

Maybe my mental geography is confused, but it seems odd to have Pontypridd out in zone 3 when zone 1 extends all the way to Newport and a few stops towards Ebbw Vale.

 

[Snow1964]

The TfW payg scheme has now been extended to Maesteg and Abergavenny.

Pay as you go travel | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

A zonal map has also been released showing the eventual coverage for the scheme.

Anyone know what significance of T1C and T4 at Cardiff central is (tram routes maybe ?)

 

[mattdickinson]

Anyone know what significance of T1C and T4 at Cardiff central is (tram routes maybe ?)

They are bus routes

T1C - Cardiff - Aberystwyth

Timetable for T1C - Cardiff - Aberystwyth

traws.cymru

T4 - Newtown - Cardiff

Timetable for T4 - Newtown - Cardiff

traws.cymru

 

[EUC]

So the PAYG fare of £8.20 (2 x £4.10) would apply on a return trip from Maesteg to Abergavenny, whereas someone buying a paper ticket for that journey would pay £25.10? And if you fancy breaking your journey at Cardiff and/or Newport, it would cost 80p more as you'd hit the daily cap.

 

[etr221]

Looking at this (TfW's PAYG scheme), a couple of observations:

Firstly, I couldn't find a complete, up-to-date (i.e. as of today) list of what stations are included - the list on their (TfW's) PAYG Ts&Cs, doesn't include stions to Abergavenny. Nor are they mentioned on their news feed.

Secondly, on looking on BRfares, while PAYG fares are listed for, e.g. Cwmbran to Pontypool & New Inn, under Validity, it says 'NOT FOR TRAVEL (no break of journey)'. While I can understand 'no break of journey', what should I make of 'NOT FOR TRAVEL'? - when the whole point of fares is that they do permit travel.

 

[AdamWW]

Looking at this (TfW's PAYG scheme), a couple of observations:

Firstly, I couldn't find a complete, up-to-date (i.e. as of today) list of what stations are included - the list on their (TfW's) PAYG Ts&Cs, doesn't include stions to Abergavenny. Nor are they mentioned on their news feed.

Secondly, on looking on BRfares, while PAYG fares are listed for, e.g. Cwmbran to Pontypool & New Inn, under Validity, it says 'NOT FOR TRAVEL (no break of journey)'. While I can understand 'no break of journey', what should I make of 'NOT FOR TRAVEL'? - when the whole point of fares is that they do permit travel.

A (clumsy) way of saying that they shouldn't be sold as tickets?

They are bus routes

Though the T1C only has one service a day to/from Cardiff, and while it would be nice if the T4 went from the new bus station adjacent to Cardiff Central, it actually goes from a street a good 15 minutes away. Queen Street is closer.

Some new barriers have gone in at Queen Street, presumably to permit contactless payments.

Unlike (I think) the new ones at Central, some of them take magnetic stripe tickets as well.

On another matter, while I know it's a minority pursuit, does anyone know if there is a way of using Plusbus with a contactless journey?
Though it's not really in the spirit of travelling using a contactless card, I know.

 

[mattdickinson]

The availability has now extended to Chepstow & Pyle.

https://tfw.wales/ways-to-travel/rail/ticket-types/pay-as-you-go

 

[A S Leib]

The availability has now extended to Chepstow & Pyle.

https://tfw.wales/ways-to-travel/rail/ticket-types/pay-as-you-go

Which leaves Lydney as the only station separating the Bristol / Bath and South Wales PAYG schemes, at least via Gloucester.

 

[Envoy]

If someone taps is in at Ebbw Vale Parkway (zone 5) and taps out at Mountain Ash (also zone 5) - does that count as just one zone even though they have travelled through other zones on the way?

If you just tap in your registered bank card and therefore have no ticket, how does the guard know that you have paid to travel? What about stations with no gates?

If GWR can apply Railcard discount to their tap in out system in the Bristol area, why can't TfW do the same?

 

[signed]

does that count as just one zone even though they have travelled through other zones on the way?

It will count the same way as Oyster for capping

Fares and capping | Transport for Wales

Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

tfw.wales

Example of daily and weekly capping using Pay as you go with customers regularly travelling:

• Between Ebbw vale town to Newbridge will start their journey in zone 6 and will pass through zones 6, 5,4, and 3 they will therefore qualify for the zone 2 - 7 daily and weekly zonal caps.
• Between Cardiff Central to Pontyclun will start their journey in zone 1 and will pass through zones, 1,2, and 3 and therefore will qualify for the zone 1 - 3 daily and weekly zonal caps.
• Between Pontyclun to Ebbw vale parkway a customer will start their journey in zone 3 and will pass through zones, 1,2,3,4, and 5 and therefore will qualify for the zone 1 - 7 daily and weekly zonal caps.
• Between Cardiff Central, Newport, Pye Corner, and Rogerstone will only pass through zone 1 and will qualify for the zone 1 daily and weekly zonal caps.

 

[Edvid]

Included within TfW's latest presser on PAYG expansion is a picture of another gateline design at Pontypridd (image library link). It's another Vix product,* but unlike the previous design it can handle magstripe tickets as well.

‘Pay As You Go’ now available between Pontypridd and Cardiff Bay

Contactless tap in, tap out ‘Pay As You Go’ rail payment option has now been extended to a further nine stations between Pontypridd and Cardiff Bay (from Monday 4 November).

news.tfw.wales

Making it faster, easier and cheaper to travel, Transport for Wales launched the scheme in January on journeys between Cardiff Central, Newport and Pontyclun.

It was then extended to the Ebbw Vale line in March, the Maesteg line in September and following its success it was expanded to an additional seven stations in October including Severn Tunnel Junction, Caldicot, Chepstow, Cwmbran, Pontypool and New Inn, Abergavenny and Pyle.

The smoother travel option has now arrived at Pontypridd, Trefforest, Trefforest Estate, Taffs Well, Radyr, Llandaf, Cathays, Cardiff Queen and Cardiff Bay.

This phased expansion brings a total of 36 stations into the "Pay As You Go" scheme keeping TfW on track to expand the scheme to all 95 stations across the South-East Wales Metro before the end of this year.

Alexia Course, Chief Commercial Officer for Transport for Wales said:

“This is already proving to be a huge success for our customers with over 65,000 Pay-As-You-Go journeys made to date, making it the fastest-growing retail channel for Transport for Wales.”

“We're seeing usage growing week-on-week with more and more people choosing the convenience of simply tapping in and tapping out for their journeys.”

“We’ll continue to expand throughout this year, making it easier for customers, improving their experience and attracting more people to use public transport.”

[* Could be mistaken for the Cubic E2 at a glance, but there is a graphic on the Vix smart gates page]

 

[AdamWW]

Included within TfW's latest presser on PAYG expansion is a picture of another gateline design at Pontypridd (image library link). It's another Vix product,* but unlike the previous design it can handle magstripe tickets as well.

Looks like what's recently been installed in Queen Street.

They make a little sound when they accept a magnetic stripe ticket.

I realise that before using contactless one should find out which stations it's valid to, but it seems a bit premature to have signage on the paddles inviting people to use contactless when it can't even be used to all the neighbouring stations.

 

[Haywain]

signage on the paddles inviting people to use contactless when it can't even be used to all the neighbouring stations.

Isn't that the situation at the boundaries of other contactless schemes?

 

[AdamWW]

Isn't that the situation at the boundaries of other contactless schemes?

Is it?

I don't know.

Doesn't seem great to me to put adverts on barriers at such stations to suggest people use contactless without pointing out that if heading in the wrong direction it's not valid.

But I'd imagine it's generally a bit more obvious that one might be at a boundary station. Queen Street isn't an intuitive place to be such a thing.

 

[Haywain]

Is it?

I don't know.

It is.

Doesn't seem great to me to put adverts on barriers at such stations to suggest people use contactless without pointing out that if heading in the wrong direction it's not valid.

It's not an advert, it's merely an indication of where to touch.

But I'd imagine it's generally a bit more obvious that one might be at a boundary station. Queen Street isn't an intuitive place to be such a thing.

Queen Street isn't a boundary station as contactless can be used both north and south of there. But other boundary stations don't have anything significantly more obvious.

 

[AdamWW]

It's not an advert, it's merely an indication of where to touch.

I see the misunderstanding.

I wasn't referring the contact pads (which just have a contactless logo on).
I was referring to the adverts on the gate paddles encouraging passengers to use contactless.

Of course TfW also shouldn't program their TVMs to suggest that people use contactless instead of buying a ticket at stations where contactless isn't valid. Or to fail to warn them that they should ignore the suggestion of using contacless instead if their journey might involve a GWR train.

Queen Street isn't a boundary station as contactless can be used both north and south of there.

That depends on whether the northbound train turns left or right.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Queen Street isn't a boundary station as contactless can be used both north and south of there. But other boundary stations don't have anything significantly more obvious.

As in you can use it from Pontypridd to Cardiff Central? That's news since tfw themselves specifically said "‘Pay As You Go’ now available between Pontypridd and Cardiff Bay" - certainly implies you can't use it to Central.

 

[AdamWW]

As in you can use it from Pontypridd to Cardiff Central? That's news since tfw themselves specifically said "‘Pay As You Go’ now available between Pontypridd and Cardiff Bay" - certainly implies you can't use it to Central.

I think they mean Ponty to the Bay and all stations in between.

The scheme seems to work by enabling stations as one might expect. It would be rather confusing if they just enabled specific flows.

 

[Haywain]

As in you can use it from Pontypridd to Cardiff Central? That's news since tfw themselves specifically said "‘Pay As You Go’ now available between Pontypridd and Cardiff Bay" - certainly implies you can't use it to Central.

That's not what the TfW website says:

Experience smoother train travel with contactless pay as you go now available exclusively on TfW and Cross-Country services between Cardiff Central, Cardiff Queen Street, Cardiff Bay, Newport, Pontyclun and stations up to Ebbw Vale, Maesteg, Abergavenny, Chepstow, Pyle and Pontypridd.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I think they mean Ponty to the Bay and all stations in between.

The scheme seems to work by enabling stations as one might expect. It would be rather confusing if they just enabled specific flows.

Central isn't between Pontypridd and the Bay, though I get your point about specifc flows - but I would say that isnt obviously pointed out in their announcement.

That's not what the TfW website says:

The press release they did when it got enabled does. Linked to in post 47 on this thread. It is literally titled "‘Pay As You Go’ now available between Pontypridd and Cardiff Bay". Based on that title and the contents I hadn't even looked at the other pages, but can now see they quote a centrist Pontypridd payg fare so obviously it is included. They could have just made the announcement more obvious!

 

[AdamWW]

Central isn't between Pontypridd and the Bay, though I get your point about specifc flows - but I would say that isnt obviously pointed out in their announcement.

Ah, no, it isn't, is it?

It would be somewhat confusing though to have two islands of acceptance with Queen Street in one and Central in the other and no travel between the two groups allowed.

The press release they did when it got enabled does. Linked to in post 47 on this thread. It is literally titled "‘Pay As You Go’ now available between Pontypridd and Cardiff Bay". Based on that title and the contents I hadn't even looked at the other pages, but can now see they quote a centrist Pontypridd payg fare so obviously it is included. They could have just made the announcement more obvious!

I think in general TfW could communicate a bit better.

I know not to treat one bit of information from them in isolation and that one also has to look elsewhere on their web site and on Twitter to get the full picture. But it's not obvious that one should, and I'd argue that one shouldn't have to anyway.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Another thing that isnt obvious to me at least - what about Pontypridd to Cardiff services that go via the city line? Since those stations aren't included I had initially assumed it wouldn't be valid but at the same time since the start and end stations are included is that ok?

Either way good to see it roll out to more places and here's hoping for the heads of the valleys north of Pontypridd to be next!

 

[positron]

Another thing that isnt obvious to me at least - what about Pontypridd to Cardiff services that go via the city line? Since those stations aren't included I had initially assumed it wouldn't be valid but at the same time since the start and end stations are included is that ok?

Either way good to see it roll out to more places and here's hoping for the heads of the valleys north of Pontypridd to be next!

You can travel via the city line you just can't start or end there.

I notice the barriers at Bridgend seem to take magnetic strip tickets. I wonder if they can upgrade Cardiff or Newport to also take them?

 

[AdamWW]

You can travel via the city line you just can't start or end there.

That's good. It doesn't seem to work like that in London - pay as you go has to be valid at intermediate stations for a route to be valid.

I notice the barriers at Bridgend seem to take magnetic strip tickets. I wonder if they can upgrade Cardiff or Newport to also take them?

Cardiff Queen Street has new barriers which take magnetic stripe tickets as well as contactless.