TfW Mk4 Diagrams?

[Envoy]

This is the Timing Load (internal use) that is used for the route and not the actual weight of the train itself. It is, you might say, a formula to determine the timing of the train according to the type of traction and line speed.

Many thanks for the explanation.

 

[peteb]

I believe there's something in this alright. It's notable that the two services have been diagrammed in such a way that all 3 depots (Holyhead, Crewe and Cardiff drivers, Holyhead, Shrewsbury and Cardiff conductors) get at least one job per day (2 in the case of Holyhead). There's also going to be a weekly ECS swap of sets between Crewe and Holyhead on a Saturday, which amongst other things will help keep the Crewe and Shrewsbury crews involved competent on prepping the stock for service (during the week Holyhead will prep the morning service and Cardiff the evening) which is a lot more complicated than with DMUs.





In Holyhead over the past few weeks there has been training of drivers from scratch on the MKIVs and 67s (as in drivers who didn't previously sign the 67s and MKIIIs). This involves a large amount of work just on the 67 so it may well be that things have changed from the usual pattern because of that.

Thanks for the info. What drew my attention to the mk ivs was the corridor connection visible from the car as I drove towards Mcdonalds, and the loco elsewhere....!

 

[wobman]

It will be great to eventually see the mk4's in service, they are desperately needed on the TFW network.
This last week has shown that extra services and longer units are essentially needed, let's hope they can get the extra mk4's into service asap.
Holyhead was busy yesterday with the mk4's getting ready for Monday, it's a shame TFW can't get any more other units such as DMU's for the summer chaos

 

[glenbogle]

Am on it this morning, 5 mins late departing Bangor. All good.

 

[berneyarms]

I’d imagine you’ll have:

- Two sets on Holyhead-Cardiff (doing 3 trips each as per the original plan)
- Three or four sets on key Swansea-Manchester services

That would leave a full set as maintenance cover with some spare coaches on hand.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can we keep posts in this thread confined to discussion of the diagrams please. For discussion of the stock please use this thread:

Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

Now that the Azuma's are nearly in service and Mark 4's are going to be released in the coming weeks, do we know any more details about the three MK4 rakes that Transport for Wales are due to receive from LNER, such as which sets they'll be receiving and when they'll enter service by?

www.railforums.co.uk

thanks

 

[craigybagel]

I’d imagine you’ll have:

- Two sets on Holyhead-Cardiff (doing 3 trips each as per the original plan)
- Three or four sets on key Swansea-Manchester services

That would leave a full set as maintenance cover with some spare coaches on hand.

The press release today implies that the Holyhead and Manchester sets will be kept separate, but given the sets should all be the same formation (just with different coloured seats) and both routes are likely to have sets stabling in Canton overnight it seems to me to be unlikely that they'll actually be kept separate.

2 sets on Holyhead, 4 on Manchester and 1 spare at Canton seems the most sensible overall, but we'll have to wait and see what actually comes about.

 

[Rhydgaled]

2 sets on Holyhead, 4 on Manchester and 1 spare at Canton seems the most sensible overall, but we'll have to wait and see what actually comes about.

4+2+1 = 7 and Wikipedia claims that Grand Central had five sets. TfW had three sets already didn't they - so if they had taken on all 5 Grand Central sets they now have 8 sets, right? So would you diagram 7 in service (2 on Holyheads and 5 on Manchesters) with one spare set or would you keep two spare sets and only diagram six?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

4+2+1 = 7 and Wikipedia claims that Grand Central had five sets. TfW had three sets already didn't they - so if they had taken on all 5 Grand Central sets they now have 8 sets, right? So would you diagram 7 in service (2 on Holyheads and 5 on Manchesters) with one spare set or would you keep two spare sets and only diagram six?

I expect there will be some redundancy, trying to match Mk4 and DMU diagrams at the right time of day, and serve West Wales too.
You'd also think all 8(?) Mk4 sets would be identical, technically, so they can be swapped about.
Nor would I be surprised if they turned up on Holyhead-Manchester-Cardiff diagrams, linking the service groups.
175s already work Chester-Crewe-Manchester to get on their Marches diagrams.
The TfW service from North Wales to Manchester hasn't been resolved yet, either, in terms of the Castlefield options (route and destination).

 

[ValleyLines142]

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but what days are they running? Hoping to go from Hereford to Shrewsbury on one next week?

 

[craigybagel]

4+2+1 = 7 and Wikipedia claims that Grand Central had five sets. TfW had three sets already didn't they - so if they had taken on all 5 Grand Central sets they now have 8 sets, right? So would you diagram 7 in service (2 on Holyheads and 5 on Manchesters) with one spare set or would you keep two spare sets and only diagram six?

I expect there will be some redundancy, trying to match Mk4 and DMU diagrams at the right time of day, and serve West Wales too.
You'd also think all 8(?) Mk4 sets would be identical, technically, so they can be swapped about.
Nor would I be surprised if they turned up on Holyhead-Manchester-Cardiff diagrams, linking the service groups.
175s already work Chester-Crewe-Manchester to get on their Marches diagrams.
The TfW service from North Wales to Manchester hasn't been resolved yet, either, in terms of the Castlefield options (route and destination).

As covered in the other thread here there were only 4 GC sets. Combined with the current 3 X 4 car TFW sets it will make up 7 X 5 car sets.

I'd be surprised to see any combining of the service groups in the North as it's logistically a lot more difficult than it is with 175s (owing to traction knowledge) and with both routes likely to have sets stabled in Canton every night any swapping could take place there. But who knows, stranger things have happened

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but what days are they running? Hoping to go from Hereford to Shrewsbury on one next week?

Monday to Friday for now. All there is on weekends at present is an empty stock set swap between Crewe and Holyhead.

 

[03_179]

Evening all,

would the Manchester - Holyhead diagrams posted here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/frequently-requested-diagrams.170615/#post-4100694 still be valid?

And how much longer are they running?
Trying to plan in a trip of sorts.

Thanks in advance,

 

[PHILIPE]

Evening all,

would the Manchester - Holyhead diagrams posted here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/frequently-requested-diagrams.170615/#post-4100694 still be valid?

And how much longer are they running?
Trying to plan in a trip of sorts.

Thanks in advance,

The Manchester to Holyheads haven't run since before COVID and would have gone by May 2020 anyway

 

[03_179]

ok thanks

 

[PHILIPE]

ok thanks

Forgot to say. It was intended to go over to DMU when re-starting

 

[47827]

Noticed a comment on one of the other rail forums by a generally reliable poster saying on weekdays they understand it will be about 10 services in each direction between Cardiff and Shrewsbury formed of mk4s (December 2022 presumably). The breakdown would involve 3 services each way being from or to Holyhead via Wrexham as per this September's plan and most or all of the remainder being Crewe and Manchester bound services with most of those featuring Swansea too based on the press release. This fits with the suggestion of 6 weekday diagrams (plus spare). Weekends, no mention of as yet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Noticed a comment on one of the other rail forums by a generally reliable poster saying on weekdays they understand it will be about 10 services in each direction between Cardiff and Shrewsbury formed of mk4s (December 2022 presumably). The breakdown would involve 3 services each way being from or to Holyhead via Wrexham as per this September's plan and most or all of the remainder being Crewe and Manchester bound services with most of those featuring Swansea too based on the press release. This fits with the suggestion of 6 weekday diagrams (plus spare). Weekends, no mention of as yet.

It looks like alternate services on both routes will be LHCS and DMU, which is not especially efficient, or predictable for the customer.
Meanwhile Birmingham-Cambrian/Holyhead and Manchester-Chester-Holyhead, which will interwork with the LHCS, will be DMU.

 

[craigybagel]

It looks like alternate services on both routes will be LHCS and DMU, which is not especially efficient, or predictable for the customer.
Meanwhile Birmingham-Cambrian/Holyhead and Manchester-Chester-Holyhead, which will interwork with the LHCS, will be DMU.

99% of the passengers will neither notice nor care. And having the resources to run 6 sets out of 7 is a lot more efficient then 2 out of 3.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this forum these days. People keep moaning that the CAFs aren't fancy enough, and/or that there aren't enough of them on order - so TfW acquire some more units that nobody can argue are not Intercity standard, and people are still finding excuses to complain!

 

[47827]

99% of the passengers will neither notice nor care. And having the resources to run 6 sets out of 7 is a lot more efficient then 2 out of 3.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this forum these days. People keep moaning that the CAFs aren't fancy enough, and/or that there aren't enough of them on order - so TfW acquire some more units that nobody can argue are not Intercity standard, and people are still finding excuses to complain!

Despite the pretty close to zero chance of me ever setting foot on one, I think if they are operated well and the locos behave enough I have largely only credit for such a sensible use of Intercity stock that's too good for the scrapyard if it can be found these sorts of uses. LNER's loss is certainly TFW's gain. Personally I'd still have more comfortable mk3 stock any day of the week, but since keeping those and getting more was no longer a realistic option and these came up for grabs it's something that deserves a bit of credit.

Will be interested to see the final diagrams anyway, regardless of whether they are of use.

 

[iantherev]

99% of the passengers will neither notice nor care. And having the resources to run 6 sets out of 7 is a lot more efficient then 2 out of 3.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this forum these days. People keep moaning that the CAFs aren't fancy enough, and/or that there aren't enough of them on order - so TfW acquire some more units that nobody can argue are not Intercity standard, and people are still finding excuses to complain!

Forum: Operator X needs more trains....
Operator:We will be introducing more trains...
Forum: Not those trains...

 

[Techniquest]

Forum: Operator X needs more trains....
Operator:We will be introducing more trains...
Forum: Not those trains...

Best comment I've read on this forum this month!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Folk may scoff, but the marketing for the new service will need to be quite clever to offer the same facilities, stopping patterns and timings for a mixed LHCS/DMU service.
I don't doubt TfW will do their best to deliver what they can with the resources available, but there's a difference between operating a single "premium" service to which you can give special attention, and the wider all-day service on two principal routes.

 

[Bikeman78]

Best comment I've read on this forum this month!

Imagine the outrage if TfW brought the 143s back.

 

[Techniquest]

Imagine the outrage if TfW brought the 143s back.

Considering there's been a ton of concern about physical distancing with the 143s now gone, I wonder what the reaction would be if they were brought back to deal with such concerns until the 769s were more reliable?!

Regarding the MK4s, I have not yet been on them but I hope to very soon. Does anyone know what cycle space is like on MK4s? I *might* be needing to take my bike with me

 

[47827]

Considering there's been a ton of concern about physical distancing with the 143s now gone, I wonder what the reaction would be if they were brought back to deal with such concerns until the 769s were more reliable?!

Regarding the MK4s, I have not yet been on them but I hope to very soon. Does anyone know what cycle space is like on MK4s? I *might* be needing to take my bike with me

They have a DVT with piles of bike space so long as its platformed where you need it.

 

[craigybagel]

Forum: Operator X needs more trains....
Operator:We will be introducing more trains...
Forum: Not those trains...

That pretty much sums it up!

Folk may scoff, but the marketing for the new service will need to be quite clever to offer the same facilities, stopping patterns and timings for a mixed LHCS/DMU service.
I don't doubt TfW will do their best to deliver what they can with the resources available, but there's a difference between operating a single "premium" service to which you can give special attention, and the wider all-day service on two principal routes.

It's really not that different, it's just an extension of what they did pre Covid. Certain services advertised as having a premium service (buffet counter, at seat complementary service in first class) and the rest as normal. The standard class experience will be pretty similar regardless of what stock turns up. The diagrams will be pretty much set in stone, your not likely to see the MKIVs appear on other services unexpectedly.

The difference will be that instead of one round trip on one route per day, it will be a much enhanced offering with multiple departures across 2 routes.

They have a DVT with piles of bike space so long as its platformed where you need it.

And at present the DVT is platformed at every station it calls at. Indeed, pre Covid there were several regular biker users on the evening northbound service who traveled with their bikes in the DVT.

With the extension to 5 cars plus DVT, and the increase in the numbers of stations being served there are some stations that will be problematic. The sets are having SDO fitted to cope with the short platforms on the Marches but I don't know yet if the plan for services with the loco leading is for them to stop with the front portion of the train platformed (so the DVT at the back is off the platform) or to for the rear coaches and the DVT to be the ones platformed. It's all very much early days with these plans.

 

[CW2]

<snip>
With the extension to 5 cars plus DVT, and the increase in the numbers of stations being served there are some stations that will be problematic. The sets are having SDO fitted to cope with the short platforms on the Marches but I don't know yet if the plan for services with the loco leading is for them to stop with the front portion of the train platformed (so the DVT at the back is off the platform) or to for the rear coaches and the DVT to be the ones platformed. It's all very much early days with these plans.

I travelled on the northbound run last week and noticed that at some intermediate stations there were (new) separate stop boards according to whether the class 67 or the DVT was leading. I assume that means it is intended for the DVT always to be platformed.

 

[craigybagel]

I travelled on the northbound run last week and noticed that at some intermediate stations there were (new) separate stop boards according to whether the class 67 or the DVT was leading. I assume that means it is intended for the DVT always to be platformed.

Possibly, although it's a slightly different situation at the moment as the stations in question have 5 car platforms - so a DVT and 4 MKIVs can all be platformed so long as you get the loco stopped in the right place off the platform. Once the sets go up to DVT + 5 then regardless of where you stop the loco, either the DVT or one of the passenger cars will be off the platform.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

One of the problems on Sundays (as I understand it) is the manning of the manual boxes on the route, early and late.

I'm open to correction but my understanding was it was only the boxes on the Llandudno branch that were an issue.

When I applied for an opening to work the level crossing at Ty Croes, the shifts covered a full 24 hours 7 days a week. (3 years ago..)

The box here in Llanfairpwll is 2 shifts a day. The crossing is close to cars overnight.


My application was not entirely sucessful and I never worked for network rail.

Searched for tickets on the TfW website. Could not find any direct trains from BNG to CDF. ??

Was 7 June a one off?

 

[PHILIPE]

According to Journey Check and confirmed by TFW 1712 Cardiff to Holyhead tonight will be worked by a 175 due to the TFW jargon "Resource Availability". This indicates no driver with traction knowledge