TfW Passenger Charter, Advance Tickets

[trainophile]

I’m on the 1006 Carmarthen to Man Picc, which is being diverted between Shrewsbury and Crewe due to yet another sad fatality (near Whitchurch). It looks like I may miss my connection to Lancaster by a few minutes, unless the estimated diversion time reduces, and I will have to wait an hour for the next one.

As usual I’m on Advance tickets, and in trying to find out TfW’s delay repay policy I came across this in their Passenger Charter...

Please note that Advance ticket types are non- refundable. However if you have purchased an Advance ticket and your train is cancelled or delayed, or if you missed your booked train due to a delay on another train service, staff will help you to continue your journey. If you decide not to travel due to the disruption, you can claim a refund on any unused tickets without needing to pay an administration fee.

It seems they are implying that no delay repay will be made on Advance tickets, only assistance with continuing your journey. Is this (a) correct, and (b) allowed?

Sorry can’t post link as it’s in PDF format.

 

[_toommm_]

I’m on the 1006 Carmarthen to Man Picc, which is being diverted between Shrewsbury and Crewe due to yet another sad fatality (near Whitchurch). It looks like I may miss my connection to Lancaster by a few minutes, unless the estimated diversion time reduces, and I will have to wait an hour for the next one.

As usual I’m on Advance tickets, and in trying to find out TfW’s delay repay policy I came across this in their Passenger Charter...



It seems they are implying that no delay repay will be made on Advance tickets, only assistance with continuing your journey. Is this (a) correct, and (b) allowed?

Sorry can’t post link as it’s in PDF format.

You can claim delay repay on advances - they have to offer it to the minumum requirements that the NRCoT requires.

But unless TfW have switched over to delay repay instantly, the old system would not allow compensation for a fatality.

 

[trainophile]

Oh, oh well fair enough, although I thought I read on here recently that Network Rail pick up the tab for such claims so I am disappointed that TfW don’t seem to have any mechanism for claiming anyway. I know ATW were a bit of a law unto themselves so presumably TfW are just carrying on with the same system.

Mustn’t complain, my inconvenience is trivial on the scale of things.

 

[superalbs]

But unless TfW have switched over to delay repay instantly, the old system would not allow compensation for a fatality.

It seems that TfW have switched instantly, as their passenger charter appears not to have any mention of any other compensation schemes.

It also mentions the following...

Compensation, through our Delay Repay scheme-14 October 2018 to 30 January 2019

...and then goes on to list the regular Delay Repay 30 thresholds.

 

[krus_aragon]

There is a distinction between a refund and compensation. Advance tickets are normally excluded from the former.

Delay Repay is a form of compensation, so the quoted passage isn't directly relevant.

 

[trainophile]

Oh, okay thanks. So it’s worth doing then. I couldn’t find an online claim form, I’ll have another look.

 

[trainophile]

There is a distinction between a refund and compensation. Advance tickets are normally excluded from the former.

Delay Repay is a form of compensation, so the quoted passage isn't directly relevant.

Surely they can’t exclude Advance tickets for cancelled trains?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely they can’t exclude Advance tickets for cancelled trains?

No, they can't, but refunds are not available on Advances for other reasons.

In essence if the £10 admin fee would be due there is no refund.

 

[superalbs]

Oh, okay thanks. So it’s worth doing then. I couldn’t find an online claim form, I’ll have another look.

Here you go:
https://tfwrail.wales/delay-compensation

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I’m on the 1006 Carmarthen to Man Picc, which is being diverted between Shrewsbury and Crewe due to yet another sad fatality (near Whitchurch). It looks like I may miss my connection to Lancaster by a few minutes, unless the estimated diversion time reduces, and I will have to wait an hour for the next one.

As usual I’m on Advance tickets, and in trying to find out TfW’s delay repay policy I came across this in their Passenger Charter...



It seems they are implying that no delay repay will be made on Advance tickets, only assistance with continuing your journey. Is this (a) correct, and (b) allowed?

Sorry can’t post link as it’s in PDF format.

I think you may be confusing a refund and compensation. This is easy to do, given that even within official documents in the rail industry, the two entirely disparate terms are used seemingly interchangeably.

A refund is when you don't use a ticket to travel - or if you start your journey and abandon it (which also includes deciding to return to your origin). You are essentially reversing the purchase. A refund is not possible for Advance tickets under normal circumstances (i.e. you've changed your plans); however, if disruption occurs (including delays or cancellations), this is waived and you are entitled to a fee-free refund. A refund is always paid by the company which sold you your ticket - which may not be a company you use at all on your journey. It might it even be a train company.

Compensation is paid regardless of the kind of ticket you hold (unless you are not actually paying anything, e.g. staff passes!). It is based on the delay to your journey, and the only impact that the ticket you held has on the compensation, is that it is calculated as a percentage of the amount paid for the ticket (the percentage varying depending on the ticket type, e.g. single, return or season ticket). Compensation does not involve reversing the purchase in any way - it is merely that the train company are compensating you for the inconvenience which the delay has caused. Compensation is always payable by the first train company that caused your journey to become delayed.

 

[trainophile]

Got it, thanks everyone. The term compensation is confusing as the amount paid is calculated from the ticket cost, not the amount of inconvenience caused.

I went in the Virgin customer office at Crewe and picked up an Arriva claim form, which presumably will be okay for TfW use.

On the 1609 now, which is running a bit late and I don’t know if I will make the Morecambe train, even though it’s only cross platform. Will have to do a bit more research...

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Got it, thanks everyone. The term compensation is confusing as the amount paid is calculated from the ticket cost, not the amount of inconvenience caused.

I went in the Virgin customer office at Crewe and picked up an Arriva claim form, which presumably will be okay for TfW use.

On the 1609 now, which is running a bit late and I don’t know if I will make the Morecambe train, even though it’s only cross platform. Will have to do a bit more research...

It is indeed confusing. I suspect an Arriva claim form would be just fine; however, if you are intending to post it off then I would advise obtaining proof of postage at a Post Office in case your tickets get lost in the post.

 

[causton]

I would probably avoid using the old forms. When my local line changed franchise, the addresses changed and I wouldn't bet on them forwarding the old mail to the new address!

 

[trainophile]

True. Okay it’s the online form then. At least I can just send photos of the tickets in the first instance.

Eventually arrived at Morecambe 90 minutes late. Two Advances and an off peak day single from Lancaster, so I should be able to make a case for at least getting something back. My hotel were phoning me as I hadn’t shown up at the time I’d said, and they were waiting to go out, so they were inconvenienced too.

Nonetheless it’s all insignificant in the circumstances isn’t it? I do hope the train driver is okay.

 

[trainophile]

Bumping this thread as I have just heard from TfW with regard to my claim. They are sending me a cheque for £10.60, which is exactly half of the total cost of my tickets. As my delay was 90 minutes I'm not sure why it's not the full amount. However I'm glad to get anything, and probably won't bother querying it, but just wondered if anyone knows how they came to this figure.

(All prices include Railcard discount)
Hereford to Crewe 1308 (£9.25 Advance) - this was where the delay originated, arriving Crewe 1516
causing me to miss the 1509 Crewe to Lancaster (£9.90 Advance), meaning I took the 1609, arriving Lancaster 1721
Next Morecambe train (£2.05 Off Peak Day Single) departed Lancaster 1751, arrived Morecambe 1802.

They have offered me the chance to raise a query if I suspect a miscalculation, but don't want to take the risk of losing the £10.60 if they change their minds!

 

[sheff1]

They have offered me the chance to raise a query if I suspect a miscalculation, but don't want to take the risk of losing the £10.60 if they change their minds!

I have had similar (not TFW) and waited until I had cashed the cheque before telling them they had miscalculated. They then sent another chegue for an additional amount - still wrong mind you !

 

[trainophile]

Nice one - I may try that!

 

[robbeech]

As your tickets were singles and you were delayed by over an hour then you should be entitled to 100% of the ticket price. They certainly aren’t going to reduce it. Write back to them and explain to them that the total price of the tickets is £xx.xx and your delay was between 60 and 120 minutes and you believe you are entitled to 100% compensation. Sometimes you have to appear to be borderline patronising about it because they have so many claims they can often miss crucial details so simple is good.

 

[trainophile]

Cheers Rob, I will do that. Considering I was doubtful about hearing anything back from them I've really nothing much to lose, and it might concentrate their minds for future claimants.

 

[mallard]

However I'm glad to get anything, and probably won't bother querying it

Which is (in my personal opinion) likely to be the reason that underpaying such claims is so common across the industry...

 

[trainophile]

Which is (in my personal opinion) likely to be the reason that underpaying such claims is so common across the industry...

True, I expect many people either don't realise they can claim at all, or are unaware of what they are entitled to. I will do my bit to remedy that. I did on Tuesday this week, told a chap who was also running for the Ayr train at Glasgow Central (we missed it) to put in a claim to Virgin for our 18 minute late arrival. He didn't seem too bothered though, and looked like he was probably travelling on expenses!

 

[robbeech]

I’m not sure how it works with his expenses but if he cares that little about his employers then it says a lot about the world.
If someone I’m laying is delayed on a train I expect them to claim compensation if they are late. The important part is, I expect them to keep it.