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TfW - Still no on board ticket sales. What about commission?

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Egg Centric

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Males quite a difference when some where taking well over £1000 especially on an early shift. The 5% soon mounts up & is very lucrative for some in the monthly payslip.

5% is roughly what I expected. What I didn’t expect was four figure shifts, crikey! I was assuming it’d be 5% of £50.
 
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skyhigh

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It varies enormously. We get 3%, and I'm lucky to take £150 per shift. Not since before TVMs at stations and smartphones would we get anywhere near £1000.

We do, however, get 2p per ticket scan which is a rather nice bonus.

All in all, I don't get much off commission, but I do get enough to pay my parking charges at work so I'm happy enough!
 

dk1

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5% is roughly what I expected. What I didn’t expect was four figure shifts, crikey! I was assuming it’d be 5% of £50.
Exactly why it’s so important to many. £50 is just one ticket to London. Some of the guards are selling tickets non-stop on local trips. The £5-£10 fares soon mount up too.

One of my colleagues who is a guard has told me that average monthly commission was around £450-£500 per month so not to be sniffed at.
 

Parallel

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When I was at Cardiff Central last week, the excess fare line was so long that they just opened the barriers and let those needing to buy tickets through!

I've made a couple of journeys on TfW recently. It seems to be a mixture of walking through/staying in the cab, depending on the guard. Nobody checking tickets though.
 

williamn

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Have to wonder how much revenue is being lost. Made a fair few short hops on the Conwy Valley line last week. None of the stations have a ticket machine. Conductor advised to download and buy on the app, but the reception in the area is not exactly conducive to doing so...
 

craigybagel

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Males quite a difference when some where taking well over £1000 especially on an early shift. The 5% soon mounts up & is very lucrative for some in the monthly payslip.
Sadly, the days when TfW guards were taking four figure sums routinely are long since gone.
London tickets are great when you get them but hardly anyone buys them on board these days

I have never known any TVMs or online offering priv fares. Would just wait & buy at the first interaction with a human being.
As per RSTL guidelines, Privs are only available at booking offices, or onboard (and officially only in the latter case at stations where there is no open booking office). Caledonian Sleeper were the only operator to provide PRIV tickets online, and even that facility got removed. Could you imagine the carnage if the public found a button that gave a 75% discount?
 

sd0733

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Sadly, the days when TfW guards were taking four figure sums routinely are long since gone.
London tickets are great when you get them but hardly anyone buys them on board these days

We cant do them on the new machines anyway unless just going to Euston/Paddington. Anything across London is greyed out as the tube cant take the receipt tickets. Lost a few decent tickets over time due to that.
 

dk1

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As per RSTL guidelines, Privs are only available at booking offices, or onboard (and officially only in the latter case at stations where there is no open booking office). Caledonian Sleeper were the only operator to provide PRIV tickets online, and even that facility got removed. Could you imagine the carnage if the public found a button that gave a 75% discount?
Oh most definitely. You know how bad they are at hitting child or railcard discount (allegedly) by mistake haha.
 

craigybagel

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We cant do them on the new machines anyway unless just going to Euston/Paddington. Anything across London is greyed out as the tube cant take the receipt tickets. Lost a few decent tickets over time due to that.
I was wondering if that was still the case. I knew it was an issue when Star replaced Avantix, I was hoping they might have fixed it by now?
Oh most definitely. You know how bad they are at hitting child or railcard discount (allegedly) by mistake haha.
Nice use of "allegedly" :lol:
 

sd0733

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I was wondering if that was still the case. I knew it was an issue when Star replaced Avantix, I was hoping they might have fixed it by now?
Itd be nice if that was the case but i wont hold my breath! See what happens when we eventually get the machines back.
 

Kite159

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As soon as they start checking/selling tickets they will be earning a bit of commission, as like Scotland some passengers are treating the railways effectively as free unless they are travelling to a station with barriers, and even then either they know of a nearby station which lacks barriers (Cardiff Bay) or they simply buy a ticket on the phone from the last station the train called at before the barriered station, i.e. someone from the Barry Line buying a ticket from Grangetown, someone from one of the Valley lines buying from Cathays or Heath.

It will take a good few months for the message to sink in that passengers need to buy before they board, but at least the pacers are gone and the 150s have gangways so a reduction of those who simply jump in the front unit knowing there was a reduced "risk" of getting gripped.
 

RPI

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Are they the only TOC still in this position? Its going to make it so difficult when they finally do start checking again as people would have had 18 months or more free travel. I worked to Cardiff the other day and the amount boarding at Severn Tunnel Junction and even Newport without tickets was unreal, no wonder they seemed surprised to see me checking tickets then! (GWR train)
 

Gems

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Good grief. Are they still not going back to normal working. Nothing like keeping a good time going is there? They'll be tears when redundancies come along, and come along they will.
 

DelW

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TfW now have new TVM's at virtually every station, so they'd argue even if travelling from an unstaffed station, you still have the facility to buy a ticket before you board (as long as you're paying by card and not cash)
Does that include the Heart of Wales line? Last time I was there (late 2019) no stations (except possibly Llandrindod) had ticket machines or offices, and there's no phone or data signal at most either.
When I stay in the area I use the trains regularly for short trips and have always bought on board. If I'm on a day walking trip I may well not know in advance which station I'll be coming back from. I'm going back there in a few weeks time, if this policy is still in place I can't see how I'll be able to pay for my journeys.
 

Dai Corner

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Good grief. Are they still not going back to normal working. Nothing like keeping a good time going is there? They'll be tears when redundancies come along, and come along they will.

TfW are nationalised and Labour are in Government and appear willing to fund the shortfall in revenue. I'd suggest that redundancies are unlikely.
 

Gems

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TfW are nationalised and Labour are in Government and appear willing to fund the shortfall in revenue. I'd suggest that redundancies are unlikely.
All TOC's are effectively nationalised, and yes, they seem very good at spending taxpayers money on unnecessary restrictions. Probably why the rest of the UK has rejected a Labour government. But lets not go into politics, it's not what the thread is about.
The fact of the matter is every TOC has been working normally for months. So why is Wales different? Is there some kind of viral strain waiting to pounce from the depths of the valleys, or is it that it is in someones vested interest to keep this going. The fact is most of us are getting rather tired of this hiding away and pretending there's a legitimate excuse for not doing the job. It is at the end of the day us who are paying for it.
 

williamn

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Does that include the Heart of Wales line? Last time I was there (late 2019) no stations (except possibly Llandrindod) had ticket machines or offices, and there's no phone or data signal at most either.
When I stay in the area I use the trains regularly for short trips and have always bought on board. If I'm on a day walking trip I may well not know in advance which station I'll be coming back from. I'm going back there in a few weeks time, if this policy is still in place I can't see how I'll be able to pay for my journeys.
From my experience on the Conwy line, you won't have to. I was diligent and bought on the app in the end, but no one checked. (which is nuts given they have to pass through the train anyway asking for request stops)
 

dk1

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From my experience on the Conwy line, you won't have to. I was diligent and bought on the app in the end, but no one checked. (which is nuts given they have to pass through the train anyway asking for request stops)
I suppose they have a lot more request stops than most. At my TOC all request have become booked stops since this whole malarkey began.
 

Dai Corner

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All TOC's are effectively nationalised, and yes, they seem very good at spending taxpayers money on unnecessary restrictions. Probably why the rest of the UK has rejected a Labour government. But lets not go into politics, it's not what the thread is about.
The fact of the matter is every TOC has been working normally for months. So why is Wales different? Is there some kind of viral strain waiting to pounce from the depths of the valleys, or is it that it is in someones vested interest to keep this going. The fact is most of us are getting rather tired of this hiding away and pretending there's a legitimate excuse for not doing the job. It is at the end of the day us who are paying for it.
Actually, politics is very much what this thread is about. The Welsh Government have had a different, generally more restrictive, approach to public health during the pandemic and obviously think minimising railway staff contact with passengers is more important than protecting revenue.
 

Caaardiff

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All TOC's are effectively nationalised, and yes, they seem very good at spending taxpayers money on unnecessary restrictions. Probably why the rest of the UK has rejected a Labour government. But lets not go into politics, it's not what the thread is about.
The fact of the matter is every TOC has been working normally for months. So why is Wales different? Is there some kind of viral strain waiting to pounce from the depths of the valleys, or is it that it is in someones vested interest to keep this going. The fact is most of us are getting rather tired of this hiding away and pretending there's a legitimate excuse for not doing the job. It is at the end of the day us who are paying for it.
TfW management are scared of the unions and are incredibly slow to do anything about it. There's guards that won't stop at short platform stations because of the local door working, but will still go through the train for a chat! I know a few guards and the stories that people tell me are beggars belief as to what some guards and drivers get away by pulling the covid card.
 

Gems

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Well that would be a very stand up argument, however there is one problem with it. There is no data whatsoever to say that railway conductors are being put at any more of a risk than anyone else. It would do the Welsh government good to follow a bit of scientific data for once, and stop expecting the taxpayer to fund their paranoia.
 

craigybagel

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Good grief. Are they still not going back to normal working. Nothing like keeping a good time going is there? They'll be tears when redundancies come along, and come along they will.
There's a word I'd like to use in response to this, but it will probably get me banned. So instead I'll stick with "nonsense".
Does that include the Heart of Wales line? Last time I was there (late 2019) no stations (except possibly Llandrindod) had ticket machines or offices, and there's no phone or data signal at most either.
When I stay in the area I use the trains regularly for short trips and have always bought on board. If I'm on a day walking trip I may well not know in advance which station I'll be coming back from. I'm going back there in a few weeks time, if this policy is still in place I can't see how I'll be able to pay for my journeys.
Llandrindod has an agency run ticket office (or at least it did 2 years ago, I've got worked that line since then). The vast majority of passengers at the North end are traveling to Shrewsbury which has barriers
All TOC's are effectively nationalised, and yes, they seem very good at spending taxpayers money on unnecessary restrictions. Probably why the rest of the UK has rejected a Labour government. But lets not go into politics, it's not what the thread is about.
The fact of the matter is every TOC has been working normally for months. So why is Wales different? Is there some kind of viral strain waiting to pounce from the depths of the valleys, or is it that it is in someones vested interest to keep this going. The fact is most of us are getting rather tired of this hiding away and pretending there's a legitimate excuse for not doing the job. It is at the end of the day us who are paying for it.
Unlike every other TOC, TfW follow the Welsh rules on Covid rather than the English, which in general have been more strict from day one. It might sound silly, but there you are.
I suppose they have a lot more request stops than most. At my TOC all request have become booked stops since this whole malarkey began.
That is indeed part of the issue! It's not so bad on the Crewe - Shrewsbury local where with only 3 request stops and lots of padding most services are stopping at all stops anyway, but all stops on the Heart of Wales or Cambrian Coast is at best tedious and at worst delay inducing.

As I mentioned above, comission from onboard sales is pretty low these days. Not because of stinginess on the part of TfW (unlike at some TOCs, guards earn a set percentage on every ticket they sell) but because there just really aren't that many people buying on board. The vast majority of journeys are to barriered stations, and more and more people buy tickets through apps or other online sources. TfW have also stepped up revenue checks at non barriered stations, including at the likes of Grangetown and Cardiff Bay.

Yes there's going to be a loss compared to under normal times with certain journeys between unbarriered stations, especially when you consider that under normal circumstances TfW conductors are some of the most diligent in the industry when it comes to revenue protection, but I think that loss might be getting overblown just a wee bit.
 

Kite159

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Also they might have TVMs at most stations... It doesn't mean said TVM hasn't been smashed up.

Ie a few stations on the Maesteg line.
 

Gems

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TfW management are scared of the unions and are incredibly slow to do anything about it. There's guards that won't stop at short platform stations because of the local door working, but will still go through the train for a chat! I know a few guards and the stories that people tell me are beggars belief as to what some guards and drivers get away by pulling the covid card.
Absolutely no doubt you are right. Birds of a feather flock together, so a Labour administration and a union with double standards will no doubt get along.
It is rather interesting that the RMT allow their members at other TOC's to do the job they are paid for doing, but somehow in Wales it is a no, no.
 

mrd269697

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Their approach (welsh government and TFW) has been somewhat heavy handed and whilst I A. Work on the railway and B. Support guards/want to keep the railway staffed, I find it totally unacceptable they have not served some stations with short platforms in over a year. It’s incensed me nothing has been done about it until recently. Apparently an MP on Anglesey/Ynys Mon has recently enquired about it and TFW are ‘looking for a solution’ - no, just serve the stations. No other Toc has refused to serve stations. Conan Bridge in Scotland has a platform 15 metres long, that’s still served.

On the isle of Anglesey, the two busiest stations, Valley and Llanfairpwll, are the stations with no service but rural Bodorgan, Ty Croes and Rhosneigr have still had stops, on request.
 

craigybagel

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TfW management are scared of the unions and are incredibly slow to do anything about it. There's guards that won't stop at short platform stations because of the local door working, but will still go through the train for a chat! I know a few guards and the stories that people tell me are beggars belief as to what some guards and drivers get away by pulling the covid card.
Again, contrary to popular belief, guards don't make the rules - they're following orders from high up. In the past guards at this TOC have been disciplined (including dismissal) for not performing revenue duties.
 

Dai Corner

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TfW management are scared of the unions and are incredibly slow to do anything about it. There's guards that won't stop at short platform stations because of the local door working, but will still go through the train for a chat! I know a few guards and the stories that people tell me are beggars belief as to what some guards and drivers get away by pulling the covid card.
Are they 'scared of the unions' or just carrying out the instructions of the company's owner? Unlike the English TOCs TfW is wholly owned by the Government. Welcome to the nationalised railway.
 

craigybagel

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Absolutely no doubt you are right. Birds of a feather flock together, so a Labour administration and a union with double standards will no doubt get along.
It is rather interesting that the RMT allow their members at other TOC's to do the job they are paid for doing, but somehow in Wales it is a no, no.
Absolutely no doubt you're talking out of the wrong orifice. The RMT are no fan of Labour, especially in its current form under Keir Starmer. RMT aren't "allowing" their members to do anything, staff are following their employers instructions.
Their approach (welsh government and TFW) has been somewhat heavy handed and whilst I A. Work on the railway and B. Support guards/want to keep the railway staffed, I find it totally unacceptable they have not served some stations with short platforms in over a year. It’s incensed me nothing has been done about it until recently. Apparently an MP on Anglesey/Ynys Mon has recently enquired about it and TFW are ‘looking for a solution’ - no, just serve the stations. No other Toc has refused to serve stations. Conan Bridge in Scotland has a platform 15 metres long, that’s still served.

On the isle of Anglesey, the two busiest stations, Valley and Llanfairpwll, are the stations with no service but rural Bodorgan, Ty Croes and Rhosneigr have still had stops, on request.
Sadly those two stations are the two with the shortest platforms that are local door only. I accept is frustrating that the Welsh rules are so much more strict than those followed in England and Scotland, but as long as those rules are in place there's not much else that can be done.
 

RPI

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Their approach (welsh government and TFW) has been somewhat heavy handed and whilst I A. Work on the railway and B. Support guards/want to keep the railway staffed, I find it totally unacceptable they have not served some stations with short platforms in over a year. It’s incensed me nothing has been done about it until recently. Apparently an MP on Anglesey/Ynys Mon has recently enquired about it and TFW are ‘looking for a solution’ - no, just serve the stations. No other Toc has refused to serve stations. Conan Bridge in Scotland has a platform 15 metres long, that’s still served.

On the isle of Anglesey, the two busiest stations, Valley and Llanfairpwll, are the stations with no service but rural Bodorgan, Ty Croes and Rhosneigr have still had stops, on request.
It seems bonkers, we've been checking tickets since last August on trains (which run into South Wales!) Which was fully endorsed by the unions, we simply conduct a "dynamic risk assessment", basically its down to you, if you feel its unsafe then don't do revenue and there will be no comebacks, surely we'd be dropping like flies if it was so unsafe.
 

Dai Corner

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Absolutely no doubt you're talking out of the wrong orifice. The RMT are no fan of Labour, especially in its current form under Keir Starmer. RMT aren't "allowing" their members to do anything, staff are following their employers instructions.
Welsh Labour are under Mark Drakeford, who is rather more to the Left than Keir Starmer.
 
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