TFW Stock Shortages

[superkev]

One possible scenario: it's Friday 13th December and leave-leaning parties (Tory/Brexit) have won a working majority despite the best efforts of the remainers in Labour/Lib-Dem/Plaid/Greens and the SNP. Grant Shapps is reappointed Transport Secretary and one of his first announcements is a blanket derogation on all vehicles not compliant with regulations inspired by what he might refer to as "EU red-tape". Even if a "Remain Alliance" prevails they could hardly go ahead with mass train cancellations from 1 January which the Tories and Brexit Party would surely blame on continued EU membership.

Either way I believe derogations are politically inevitable.

The PRM end date was agreed by one of our many clueless UK politicians after pressure by the disability lobby. Good idea but shouldn't you check if theres enough factories with skilled people left to do the work.
I understand it has nothing to do with the EU regulations which only asks for compliance for new stock.
K

 

[Brissle Girl]

The PRM end date was agreed by one of our many clueless UK politicians after pressure by the disability lobby. Good idea but shouldn't you check if theres enough factories with skilled people left to do the work.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that given 12 years' notice, there would be adequate capacity to do the modifications. That's about the one thing that you can't point at the politicians and blame them for. Complete inertia since.... now that's a different matter.

 

[Greybeard33]

I have already made that exact same statement earlier today on this thread in post #216 above in this thread.

Indeed you did, in respect of Northern if not GWR. But I was responding to @Cardiff123 's #230. That post appeared to ignore your #216, so I thought it was worth re-emphasising the limitations in the proposed Northern and GWR dispensations. These were reported in the press last month, long before the First Minister's statement:

...11 [Northern] Class 142 Pacers would have to remain in service ‘for a few weeks’ into 2020 to maintain capacity south of Manchester and between Blackburn and Rochdale. Nine Class 142s would be used each day, paired with units meeting PRM accessibility standards. Northern’s similar Class 144 sets would also continue in service in Yorkshire for a short period. The operator is also discussing the continued use of single-car Class 153 units, again coupled with PRM-compliant sets, to provide additional capacity.

Great Western Railway is seeking permission from the Department for Transport to continuing using its fleet of eight Class 143 units on the Exmouth and Barnstaple branches for a short period in 2020. While the details have not been confirmed, it is likely that these would also be paired with PRM-compliant vehicles. This would provide additional passenger capacity whilst ensuring that services are wheelchair-accessible and include an accessible toilet.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/pacers-to-continue-into-2020-operators-confirm/54874.article

 

[Weekender]

I take it that you guys know that the Cambrian Line will be on Channel 5 on Friday 15 November 2019 at 8pm:>https://www.channel5.com/show/worlds-most-scenic-railway-journeys/

Thanks very much for that, I’ve just set the sky box to record it.

 

[Cardiff123]

One possible scenario: it's Friday 13th December and leave-leaning parties (Tory/Brexit) have won a working majority despite the best efforts of the remainers in Labour/Lib-Dem/Plaid/Greens and the SNP. Grant Shapps is reappointed Transport Secretary and one of his first announcements is a blanket derogation on all vehicles not compliant with regulations inspired by what he might refer to as "EU red-tape". Even if a "Remain Alliance" prevails they could hardly go ahead with mass train cancellations from 1 January which the Tories and Brexit Party would surely blame on continued EU membership.

Either way I believe derogations are politically inevitable.

The PRM deadline of 1/1/2020 is a UK government set deadline. Similarly, it's the UK government that decided that it's not just trains built since 1999 that must comply with the PRM specifications, it's ALL trains running on the network.
The EU only comes into it because the PRM modifications needed are set by EU standards.
The UK government could postpone the PRM deadline next week (if Parliament was sitting) by passing a law to delay the deadline.
Nevertheless, I am amused by this ill-informed, anti-EU rant.

 

[johnnychips]

^If you read @Oxfordblues post carefully, he postulates what politicians might say, not what he believes!

 

[Chris217]

The PRM deadline of 1/1/2020 is a UK government set deadline. Similarly, it's the UK government that decided that it's not just trains built since 1999 that must comply with the PRM specifications, it's ALL trains running on the network.
The EU only comes into it because the PRM modifications needed are set by EU standards.
The UK government could postpone the PRM deadline next week (if Parliament was sitting) by passing a law to delay the deadline.
Nevertheless, I am amused by this ill-informed, anti-EU rant.

Interesting point.
If we leave the EU,then things may change
But I doubt it as some people will still bang on about it.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

Interesting point.
If we leave the EU,then things may change
But I doubt it as some people will still bang on about it.

This is nothing to do with the EU, the PRM deadline was set by Whitehall not the EU!

 

[175001]

One possible scenario: it's Friday 13th December and leave-leaning parties (Tory/Brexit) have won a working majority despite the best efforts of the remainers in Labour/Lib-Dem/Plaid/Greens and the SNP. Grant Shapps is reappointed Transport Secretary and one of his first announcements is a blanket derogation on all vehicles not compliant with regulations inspired by what he might refer to as "EU red-tape". Even if a "Remain Alliance" prevails they could hardly go ahead with mass train cancellations from 1 January which the Tories and Brexit Party would surely blame on continued EU membership.
.

Someone's been reading the Torygraph..........

 

[43096]

Who owns the trains ? The ROSCOs who as owners should have taken the initiative

This has been explained numerous times, but evidently some people still don’t understand.

 

[anthony263]

Hopefully now 769460 has been accepted by Northern progress can be made by tfw to start getting their 769s out

 

[PHILIPE]

This has been explained numerous times, but evidently some people still don’t understand.

I understand just repeating what should be the obvious

 

[43096]

I understand just repeating what should be the obvious

But it is down to DfT to fund the work.

 

[Cardiff123]

But it is down to DfT to fund the work.

Yes, Porterbrook presentented plans to DfT, Welsh Govt and Arriva in 2013 on getting trains in Wales PRM ready in time for 2020.
But no one was willing to give guarantees that Sprinters would still be in use in Wales by then. And whilst DfT and Welsh Govt squabbled over who should pay, Arriva just said "not our problem"

 

[43096]

Yes, Porterbrook presentented plans to DfT, Welsh Govt and Arriva in 2013 on getting trains in Wales PRM ready in time for 2020.
But no one was willing to give guarantees that Sprinters would still be in use in Wales by then. And whilst DfT and Welsh Govt squabbled over who should pay, Arriva just said "not our problem"

Indeed - think the letter from Porterbrook explaining was published publicly at one point?

 

[Cardiff123]

Indeed - think the letter from Porterbrook explaining was published publicly at one point?

Yes it has been published somewhere online

 

[sw1ller]

Has anyone noticed a 175 has been missing a week?? It’s come off the tracks at Chester. Can’t be moved. You may see it if you get on the merseyrail to bache.

 

[anthony263]

Local rumours suggesting tfw looking at using class 67s on the rhymney loco hauled services instead of 37s once they are cleared north of ystrad mynach

 

[anamyd]

Woah, I haven't read this thread since around post 166. Lots of catching up for me to do!

Dont forget some Pacers were ordered for the swanline services when it commenced

...even though Pacers stopped being built in 1987 and Swanline was launched in 1994...?

I take it that you guys know that the Cambrian Line will be on Channel 5 on Friday 15 November 2019 at 8pm:>https://www.channel5.com/show/worlds-most-scenic-railway-journeys/

I'll be sure to watch that

Only one thing for it then, more 37/4s and MK2s anyone?

Would create more security guard jobs...

It's quite concerning that this tweet has a picture showing the 230s for TfW still being built
https://twitter.com/swalesmetroprof/status/1194142992547889152?s=19

Yes it is due to them being very delayed, but in my opinion it's good to see that they are being built!

Thanks. Tbh it's quite worrying that TfW don't have derogations granted for Pacers and the non-compliant 150s/153s/158s yet. A serious crisis could be looming if DfT plays hardball.

30 Pacers and 19 150s and 10 153s I can understand, but 2 158s...?

Absolutely , if the DfT play hard ball I'm sure TfW will argue it isn't their fault, the train manufacturers delayed deliveries and its their fault. Where I'm sure the DfT will argue that TfW knew in plenty of time that there would be delays to the deliveries of the new / refurbished rolling stock and should have had contingencies or come up with some sort of a plan to speed up the modifications before now.

What you're saying in the second sentence would be unfair of the DfT. TfW were held back by Arriva on that.

Are all 170s expected to be in Wales by the deadline? (I know this overlaps with the other thread but hear me out)

Yes, but I can't see this happening because many of them have gone to Tyseley for dilapidation repairs.

By the wiki count (sprinkle with salt) there are 30 Pacers in service alongside 36 Sprinters

eh...?

if a number of 153s can get degradations if coupled to other PRMd 153s could they partially free up 150s to be coupled to Pacers to operate on the core Valleys lines? That on its own won't be enough however could surely mitigate the problem somewhat but again that won't be anywhere near enough.

I take it you mean derogations...? They could do without any further degradations Sorry I can't answer your actual question

Reported elsewhere that 769450 has been accepted by Northern.

good news, apart from the fact that none of the 36 units across their have 3 operators have entered service, and 5...? have been delivered across 2 of those operators...

I see that the majority of TfW 158s between Birmingham and Shrewsbury are now 2 car vice 4, so 158s can be released to cover shortages elsewhere.

I think this has been happening for quite a while

This has been explained numerous times, but evidently some people still don’t understand.

where...?

 

[Cardiff123]

Local rumours suggesting tfw looking at using class 67s on the rhymney loco hauled services instead of 37s once they are cleared north of ystrad mynach

That would be sensible as I guess 67s will be more reliable?
But won't that involve yet more driver training? The 37 training runs are still ongoing aren't they!?

 

[43096]

where...?

On here. Several times, in just about every thread about PRM when someone says “But the ROSCOs should just pay for it”.

 

[anthony263]

That would be sensible as I guess 67s will be more reliable?
But won't that involve yet more driver training? The 37 training runs are still ongoing aren't they!?

Look like 37418 and 421 need work.dine so 67s covering for themb

 

[anamyd]

Has anyone noticed a 175 has been missing a week?? It’s come off the tracks at Chester. Can’t be moved. You may see it if you get on the merseyrail to bache.

oh dear! which one...?

 

[Sion John]

175003

 

[Sion John]

175003

175003 has derailed outside the Chester depot

 

[Bikeman78]

Look like 37418 and 421 need work.dine so 67s covering for themb

37418 is not very good, 37421 has been a solid performer. I've heard the 67 rumour too but I'll believe it when I see it. A lot of driver training for a few months work. It would be a lot easier to keep some Pacers for a few more months.

 

[Cardiff123]

37418 is not very good, 37421 has been a solid performer. I've heard the 67 rumour too but I'll believe it when I see it. A lot of driver training for a few months work. It would be a lot easier to keep some Pacers for a few more months.

Pacers are being kept for a few more months into 2020 anyway

 

[PHILIPE]

Pacers are being kept for a few more months into 2020 anyway

Has it actually been agreed yet ? The last I heard was that ATN and GWR had received derogation as they applied earlier but there is nobody to deal with TFW due to no Westminster Government in situ until the General Election.

 

[Cardiff123]

Has it actually been agreed yet ? The last I heard was that ATN and GWR had received derogation as they applied earlier but there is nobody to deal with TFW due to no Westminster Government in situ until the General Election.

There are no politicians in Westminster currently but there are still civil servants working at the DfT. Parliament has closed, Whitehall hasn't. Grant Shapps is still the Transport Secretary until December 12th.
So I'd expect a decision to be made and TfW informed of the decision, but a public announcement not being allowed to be made until after December 12th.
So we don't know if TfW's Pacers have been given derogations, I read in one magazine that the Mk 2's have derogations in place though

 

[anamyd]

175003 has derailed outside the Chester depot

Thanks for the info, hopefully nothing too bad happened...? It's like the TfW launch-wrapped 175s are cursed - 175107 had an engine fire and 175003 derailed...