TfW to operate HSTs between Cardiff and Holyhead?

[Railperf]

I think you may find it s going to be A. 2+4 and 125mph minimum of load is 5 not load 3. that's why the GWR GTI sets are limited to 100mph with 2+4.

That's interesting. I didn't think the 2+4 sets travelled over any track with a limit greater than 100mph in service anyway.
Maybe that's why the record breaking Tees-Tyne Pullman was a 2+5 set. Maybe a 2+4 would have given even better acceleration but would not have been able to generate the brake force required for speeds over 100mph.

 

[hexagon789]

I believe a 2+3 set is permitted to do 125mph, but any less than that would be the lower limit due to there not being enough brake force. Class 67's are also one of the few loco's that can also run with just a few coaches and still run at 100mph. I hear an 86 solo can do 0 to 60mph in around 12 secs. That is very lively.

Two power cars back-to-back can stop within the W125 braking curve, so there is no reason 2+3 can't either.

I think you may find it s going to be A. 2+4 and 125mph minimum of load is 5 not load 3. that's why the GWR GTI sets are limited to 100mph with 2+4.

I can only assume the GWR GTi sets are limited to 100mph as they don't need to run at 125mph, I believe Notch 5 is locked out at the control cubicle and perhaps a 100mph limitation means less intense maintenance is needed.

There is no reason a 2+4 cannot safely run at 125mph and stop within the specified braking distance.

 

[hexagon789]

That's interesting. I didn't think the 2+4 sets travelled over any track with a limit greater than 100mph in service anyway.
Maybe that's why the record breaking Tees-Tyne Pullman was a 2+5 set. Maybe a 2+4 would have given even better acceleration but would not have been able to generate the brake force required for speeds over 100mph.

It think it could've, by the time of the 1985 record-run I believe the braking mods had already been made.

 

[krus_aragon]

Definitely seen it somewhere. I'll have a look about. TfW have enough TSOs to make both Mk3 rakes 5 seating coaches and I think still leave a spare RFM and TSO (maybe even two TSOs) IIRC.

It happened back in the Class 57 days, at least. See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/riding-the-ruggex-report-by-stephen-hughes.56442/ and http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1112a.htm ,as well as https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/holyhead-cardiff-rugex-57s-pictures-story.42858/ and http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1103b.htm for two examples from 2011.

 

[hexagon789]

It happened back in the Class 57 days, at least. See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/riding-the-ruggex-report-by-stephen-hughes.56442/ and http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1112a.htm ,as well as https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/holyhead-cardiff-rugex-57s-pictures-story.42858/ and http://www.nwrail.org.uk/nw1103b.htm for two examples from 2011.

It was more recent than that. Last year I'm sure, though presumably only a short-term addition as it's seems to be back to 3 TSOs.

 

[Cardiff123]

Is the HST venture for TfW still going to happen? Doubt has been cast on it elsewhere. If it doesn't happen it's very difficult to see what else they could hire in that can work long distance to cover the acute DMU shortage at TfW.
When are the TPE 185s going off lease?

 

[hexagon789]

Is the HST venture for TfW still going to happen? Doubt has been cast on it elsewhere.

That's what I'd like to know as well! I've heard that it's been cancelled, but I'd like confirmation myself.

 

[Chester1]

Is the HST venture for TfW still going to happen? Doubt has been cast on it elsewhere. If it doesn't happen it's very difficult to see what else they could hire in that can work long distance to cover the acute DMU shortage at TfW.
When are the TPE 185s going off lease?

Too late for TfW (from October).

 

[Cardiff123]

So when the 175s start being withdrawn in large numbers for interior refurbishment and the 150s are concentrated in the south to replace Pacers, what are TfW going to be using to run long distance services? It's not uncommon to see 150s doing Cardiff - Manchester/Holyhead services already

 

[Bletchleyite]

So when the 175s start being withdrawn in large numbers for interior refurbishment and the 150s are concentrated in the south to replace Pacers, what are TfW going to be using to run long distance services? It's not uncommon to see 150s doing Cardiff - Manchester/Holyhead services already

They'll do one or two at a time, won't they?

 

[Cardiff123]

They'll do one or two at a time, won't they?

All 175s must have plug sockets and an interior refurbishment by the end of this year, according to the terms of the franchise.

EDIT: This is confirmed in February 2019's Modern Railways which confirms that all of the 'legacy fleet', apart from Pacers, must be fitted with plug sockets at every seat and have an interior refurbishment by the end of this year.

 

[hexagon789]

All 175s must have plug sockets and an interior refurbishment by the end of this year, according to the terms of the franchise (acc to Modern Railways magazine from a few months back, I don't have the issue to hand right now)

They'll need a number out of service at a time to do that on schedule.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Or a derogation when it becomes apparent they won't hit the deadline.

TfW are going to be very short of stock this year, given the Liverpool-Chester service also starts without any significant injection of stock.

 

[hexagon789]

TfW are going to be very short of stock this year, given the Liverpool-Chester service also starts without any significant injection of stock.

I'm surprised they aren't postponing that.

 

[krus_aragon]

I'm surprised they aren't postponing that.

They've postponed it once already...

 

[hexagon789]

They've postponed it once already...

Other TOCs have postponed new services note than once I'm sure. If they don't have the stock, how can they even operate it?

 

[Cardiff123]

To abandon the start of the Liverpool - Chester services now would require a big U-turn from TfW as they've already started an online marketing campaign promoting the launch.
Most likely we'll get the new service with even more short forms across the network.

 

[hexagon789]

To abandon the start of the Liverpool - Chester services now would require a big U-turn from TfW as they've already started an online marketing campaign promoting the launch.
Most likely we'll get the new service with even more short forms across the network.

150s on long-distance workings sort of thing?

 

[Cardiff123]

150s on long-distance workings sort of thing?

When 150s need to be in the workshop for PRM mods?

(150s on long distance workings happens regularly already, esp at weekends)

 

[hexagon789]

When 150s need to be in the workshop for PRM mods?

(150s on long distance workings happens regularly already, esp at weekends)

What's left then!?

 

[Techniquest]

Ooh power sockets coming to the 175s is good news and will make it more likely for me to use TfW to Manchester instead of going to Birmingham on WMR then National Express onwards. HSTs up the Marches, I am very interested in that unsurprisingly. I must get caught up on this thread later...

 

[PHILIPE]

TFW have told somebody today on the Twitter Feed that by the time HSTs can be arranged and due to the fact they would be non-PRM Compliant and mainly due to the lengthy training of Drivers, Guards and Managers it would not be worth procuring them.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

To be fair, it wasn't their answer, it was someone called Bradley Bunker. Although they made a very good point.

 

[hexagon789]

TFW have told somebody today on the Twitter Feed that by the time HSTs can be arranged and due to the fact they would be non-PRM Compliant and mainly due to the lengthy training of Drivers, Guards and Managers it would not be worth procuring them.

Are they getting anything else to cover or will there just be short forms?

I don't suppose retaining the Mk3s or obtaining extra Mk4s is possible.

(On the latter probably not.)

 

[krus_aragon]

I don't suppose retaining the Mk3s or obtaining extra Mk4s is possible.

I raised the first question several months ago. The current lease on the Mk3s only runs to December. And if they were to be used beyond that date, you'd need to take them to the workshop for PRM modifications.

 

[hexagon789]

I raised the first question several months ago. The current lease on the Mk3s only runs to December. And if they were to be used beyond that date, you'd need to take them to the workshop for PRM modifications.

Or apply for a derogation.

 

[Cardiff123]

Rather than the HST plan it'd be better for TfW to take on more 67s + Mk4s until 2022/2023 when the new stock starts coming on stream.
Of course the issue of driver/guard training isn't going to go away, whatever is brought in to ease the pressure until 2022/23.

 

[hexagon789]

Rather than the HST plan it'd be better for TfW to take on more 67s + Mk4s until 2022/2023 when the new stock starts coming on stream.
Of course the issue of driver/guard training isn't going to go away, whatever is brought in to ease the pressure until 2022/23.

Can they take on any more Mk4s in the short-term than they've currently planned to take on? I'm not sure there would be anymore available for a few months at least until LNER cascade more Azumas into service in place of the 225 sets.

 

[31160]

If the HST plan is dead what's plan B to spare the units for refurb

 

[PHILIPE]

If the HST plan is dead what's plan B to spare the units for refurb

They are already soaking up the pressure and units have been going for PRM Mods for over 6 months.