Thameslink and Southern timetable reduction from 26th July 2021

[flitwickbeds]

GTR have announced today there will be a reduced timetable in operation from Monday.

• No Milton Keynes to Clapham Junction service
• No Southern services at Beckenham Junction or Birkbeck
• No Southern service between Crystal Palace and Dulwich
• Down to 1 train per hour in both directions round the Thameslink south London loop
• Down to 2tph between Bedford and Brighton, with the Bedford to Gatwick Airport service group not running

Thameslink - Revised timetable

www.thameslinkrailway.com

 

[Chriso]

Words fail me but with the DFT in charge the network will prob be mothballed in a year.

A blatant test event from the DFT to see reaction before mass cuts in my eyes.

 

[3rd rail land]

Is this a case of lots of staff isolating, as Thameslink/GTR claim, or DFT trying to save costs by reducing the amount of services in the timetable?

 

[43066]

Words fail me but with the DFT in charge the network will prob be mothballed in a year.

A blatant test event from the DFT to see reaction before mass cuts in my eyes.

It’s due to a combination of staff isolating in response to the “pingdemic” and reduced training and route retention over the last year and a half. I doubt GTR will be the only operator that does this if things carry on as they are.

 

[Robertj21a]

GTR have announced today there will be a reduced timetable in operation from Monday.

• No Milton Keynes to Clapham Junction service
• No Southern services at Beckenham Junction or Birkbeck
• No Southern service between Crystal Palace and Dulwich
• Down to 1 train per hour in both directions round the Thameslink south London loop
• Down to 2tph between Bedford and Brighton, with the Bedford to Gatwick Airport service group not running

Thameslink - Revised timetable

www.thameslinkrailway.com

Presumably not very heavily used, or plenty of alternatives available?

 

[flitwickbeds]

Presumably not very heavily used, or plenty of alternatives available?

No other operator serves Birkbeck to my knowledge.

The Thameslink website says about a bus between Crystal Palace and Dulwich so I assume no other TOCs serve that route.

I suspect the main issue they'll have is the reductions on Bedford-Gatwick Airport and Luton/St Albans to South London. In the latter case, if one train is cancelled there will be two hours between services - pretty unprecedented in London metro environments I would think. And for the Gatwick Airport services, one train cancelled means an hour wait between services which might be the difference between cactching your flight and missing it.

 

[Ianno87]

No other operator serves Birkbeck to my knowledge.

.

Although a rail alternative in the form of Tramlink.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Presumably not very heavily used, or plenty of alternatives available?

Milton Keynes /Clapham Junction -alternatives possible using LNWR to Watford Junction and Overground Watford Junction- Willesden Junction - Clapham Junction
Beckenham Junction /Birkbeck. - served by trams although Birkbeck - Crystal Palace would require a detour via Croydon
Crystal Palace/Dulwich - this means in practice no service over the spur between West Norwood and Tulse Hill - there are buses between those two points, or detouring via London Bridge or Croydon
Thameslink loop - never TL's highest priority - no alternative service (but only reduced by 50%, and going the long way round the loop is an option)
Bedford - Gatwick- Brighton - again a reduced service rather than none at all

 

[Chriso]

Presumably not very heavily used, or plenty of alternatives available?

Bedford to Brighton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My folks live in Flitwick and even every 15 mins off peak there rammed London-Bedford

 

[Ianno87]

Bedford to Brighton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everywhere on that route at least keeps a 2tph service, and there's 12 cars of capacity on the trains left.

Feel free to suggest a better plan with the resources available.

 

[Chriso]

Have we clarified this is down to sickness or DFT meddling?

 

[Benjaminmorgan]

So rail replacement buses for Salfords and Earlswood then

 

[JonathanH]

So rail replacement buses for Salfords and Earlswood then

More likely stops in the Horsham service and a tighter turnaround at Horsham.

 

[popeter45]

Have we clarified this is down to sickness or DFT meddling?

as per the link

"From Monday 26 July 2021, train services and times will change on five routes as we introduce a reduced weekday timetable in response to the effects of coronavirus. This timetable will be in place until further notice, it will however be reviewed weekly and we will update you on any further changes which may be needed."

 

[JonathanH]

Have we clarified this is down to sickness or DFT meddling?

The link in the first post has these words:

Sadly, like many other industries across the country, coronavirus is affecting our colleagues. Unfortunately, following the effect of sixteen months of disruption to the business and a rapid rise in staff now needing to isolate, we have seen such a sharp increase in short notice cancellations that we have taken the difficult decision to reduce the timetable.

 

[Failed Unit]

Everywhere on that route at least keeps a 2tph service, and there's 12 cars of capacity on the trains left.

Feel free to suggest a better plan with the resources available.

Quickly install the seat back tables to the sets that are not needed.

 

[JonathanH]

And for the Gatwick Airport services, one train cancelled means an hour wait between services which might be the difference between cactching your flight and missing it.

Anyone using the cancelled services to get to Gatwick from anywhere north of Purley is on the wrong train.

 

[Ianno87]

Anyone using the cancelled services to get to Gatwick from anywhere north of Purley is on the wrong train.

Yes - they basically arrive at Gatwick at the same time as the train from Bedford that was 15 minutes behind anyway.

 

[alistairlees]

Have we clarified this is down to sickness or DFT meddling?

It’s because of the pingdemic. It’s been agreed with DfT, but they are not the instigators of this. Your post suggesting that there is some sort of DfT ulterior motive is totally wrong.

 

[Bishopstone]

It’s flagged as being a consequence of Covid pings, and no doubt there are fewer volunteers for overtime during the school holidays and decent weather.

No need to panic until/unless the withdrawn trains aren’t re-instated in early September. (Assuming we’re not back in lockdown by then!)

 

[flitwickbeds]

Anyone using the cancelled services to get to Gatwick from anywhere north of Purley is on the wrong train.

Huh? I don't understand this comment. Could you clarify?

 

[JonathanH]

Huh? I don't understand this comment. Could you clarify?

Ianno87 explained - the Bedford to Gatwick train gets to Gatwick at the same time as the Bedford to Brighton train so its loss doesn't really matter in terms of journey time to anyone apart from passengers on the Redhill corridor.

 

[bramling]

Is this a case of lots of staff isolating, as Thameslink/GTR claim, or DFT trying to save costs by reducing the amount of services in the timetable?

I’d say it’s likely to be because of the combination of summer holidays starting, underlying shortages of drivers, and of course the current issue of people being pinged.

Given how Bedford has had 4tph for very many years, and consistently been able to fill them, I’d say it wouldn’t be an obvious choice for economy-led cuts. Binning the Gatwick part seems logical with airport traffic still well down.

At the end of the day it is preferable to have planned cancellations, rather than chaos on the day, with all the service management staff having to work like mad sorting it all out.

 

[JonathanH]

Given how Bedford has had 4tph for very many years, and consistently been able to fill them, I’d say it wouldn’t be an obvious choice for economy-led cuts.

Running the services from Bedford to Blackfriars and running them on to Herne Hill reversing siding would potentially be sensible if economy-led cuts were needed.

Of the four 'mainline' Thameslink services, Bedford to Gatwick has the weakest demand and is first to go if there is engineering works / two-track railway etc.

 

[whoosh]

Allocated staff summer leave week blocks will all be full in the school summer holidays, and there is less chance of people volunteering to work overtime during this time also. On top of this predictability is the unpredictable threat of staff being 'pinged' by the Covid app. These I would think are reasons to reduce the service so that what is offered can be delivered with more reliability.

 

[Saint66]

Steve White of GTR tweeted that they had 400 staff affected by the ‘Pingdemic’ as of the Sunday just gone, which gives an idea as to the strains on staffing levels at the moment.

 

[bicbasher]

Milton Keynes /Clapham Junction -alternatives possible using LNWR to Watford Junction and Overground Watford Junction- Willesden Junction - Clapham Junction
Beckenham Junction /Birkbeck. - served by trams although Birkbeck - Crystal Palace would require a detour via Croydon
Crystal Palace/Dulwich - this means in practice no service over the spur between West Norwood and Tulse Hill - there are buses between those two points, or detouring via London Bridge or Croydon
Thameslink loop - never TL's highest priority - no alternative service (but only reduced by 50%, and going the long way round the loop is an option)
Bedford - Gatwick- Brighton - again a reduced service rather than none at all

The easiest way to get to Crystal Palace from Birkbeck without Southern serving is to get the tram to Beckenham Road and then the 227/358 to Crystal Palace which with the hopper fare is £1.55 for both journeys as trams count towards the bus fare which is faster than travelling via East Croydon. They can also walk to Elmers End and catch the 358 or up to Anerley Robin Hood and get the 157 from Croydon Road.

Birkbeck if I recall is also served by the 354 which serves the Penge end of Crystal Palace Park and Anerley Station where they can change for the 157, 358 or the 432 from Anerley Hill.

 

[AM9]

Quickly install the seat back tables to the sets that are not needed.

Can't do that because of the numbers of depot staff self-isolating.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Bedford to Brighton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My folks live in Flitwick and even every 15 mins off peak there rammed London-Bedford

Those trains certainly are not rammed at St Albans City in either direction. Got off one maybe 40 mins ago and it was nicely busy but not rammed at all.

 

[Bald Rick]

Steve White of GTR tweeted that they had 400 staff affected by the ‘Pingdemic’ as of the Sunday just gone, which gives an idea as to the strains on staffing levels at the moment.

It’s over 400 drivers that are off. And of course the situation varies by depot, which is why some routes get hit harder than others.

This isn’t the only TOC in this position either, expect more to follow.