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Class 319's into storage/withdrawals tracker

pemma

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though it wouldn't totally surprise me to see something that is a bit more of an outlier, like new 125mph Desiro Citys with a higher spec interior for the Trent Valley services.

The 125mph Civity (as being produced for TPE) is another option. It's also rumoured First Group are looking for a solution for them to be able to run at up to 115mph on the WCML despite being non-tilting.
 
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SF-02

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A shame none went to Southeastern if even for a year or two to alleviate overcrowding.

I know the reasons given on the other thread, which is DfTs failings to plan going back up to a decade for more stabling places.
 

physics34

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A shame none went to Southeastern if even for a year or two to alleviate overcrowding.

I know the reasons given on the other thread, which is DfTs failings to plan going back up to a decade for more stabling places.

Diabolical isnt it?! Finally a chance for more carriages and there is no space to put them......paying the price for selling off railway land.

New cross gate sidings should never have been bulldozed 20 years ago.
 

Bletchleyite

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The 125mph Civity (as being produced for TPE) is another option. It's also rumoured First Group are looking for a solution for them to be able to run at up to 115mph on the WCML despite being non-tilting.

As, I guess, is the InterCity Stadler FLIRT.

There's a huge amount of choice of medium-speed EMUs these days, so any TOC ordering them should be able to get a good price, too. That probably does limit the usefulness of ex-BR units, things like the dieselisation project aside.
 

DarloRich

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Unless LM's maintenance engineers are incompetent, I think they are proving to be nothing of the sort. It's 321s that I would expect to be in a lot more demand once a load become available when East Anglia's new EMUs come along.

they did get palmed off with the runts of the litter, allegedly.
 

sd0733

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I would expect to see this in proposals for the new franchise, and would be less likely to see new stock, though it wouldn't totally surprise me to see something that is a bit more of an outlier, like new 125mph Desiro Citys with a higher spec interior for the Trent Valley services.

We have heard lots ofrumours at work from a few different sources that the higher spec 6 car desiro citys is exactly what will happen for trents and liverpools. The 350/4s would come into the fleet too but the 350/2 fleet would go off lease due to the cost of running the things, I believe they are on a mileage based lease which is extremely expensive for LM.

Could be complete rubbish but it's come from a few usually reliable sources so would be interesting and does kind of make sense.
 

Bletchleyite

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We have heard lots ofrumours at work from a few different sources that the higher spec 6 car desiro citys is exactly what will happen for trents and liverpools. The 350/4s would come into the fleet too but the 350/2 fleet would go off lease due to the cost of running the things, I believe they are on a mileage based lease which is extremely expensive for LM.

I doubt any commuters would mourn the loss of the 3+2 seating, and LM have themselves said they regretted it and there wouldn't be any more 3+2 stock, as indeed there hasn't been with the 172s being 2+2 - but where would they go? I'd imagine Siemens would have to reduce the price - which they may do to LM itself.

6 car length (23m I guess?) would probably work well for the "IC" stuff, particularly the Liverpools for which 4 is insufficient but 8 would mostly be excessive.

I meant Desiro Verve, by the way - that's the 125mph one - same body as the City though I think. A message to LM, though - go 2+1 in First - if you do and keep the walk-up 1st fares reasonable I'll switch for any journey to the North West when I'm not in a hurry. If they'd switch to 2+1 in First for the south WCML services I might even consider a 1st season ticket when commuting, as that would be worth paying for.
 
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pemma

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We have heard lots ofrumours at work from a few different sources that the higher spec 6 car desiro citys is exactly what will happen for trents and liverpools. The 350/4s would come into the fleet too but the 350/2 fleet would go off lease due to the cost of running the things, I believe they are on a mileage based lease which is extremely expensive for LM.

Could be complete rubbish but it's come from a few usually reliable sources so would be interesting and does kind of make sense.

There's 3 different bidders for the next franchise so it'll depend whose idea that is.

The 350/2s are Porterbrook while the /1s, /3s and /4s are Angel so there is logic to that suggestion.

If the 6 car sets are used on Liverpool services they would need to have SDO or they'd need platform lengthening at stations like Winsford.
 

A0wen

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they did get palmed off with the runts of the litter, allegedly.

Which makes sense, because LM ran the 321s alongside the 350s and didn't have poor reliability out of those. And the 321s and 319s aren't *that* different, so if there'd been poor maintenance that would have been apparent on the 321s long ago.
 

sd0733

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I doubt any commuters would mourn the loss of the 3+2 seating, and LM have themselves said they regretted it and there wouldn't be any more 3+2 stock, as indeed there hasn't been with the 172s being 2+2 - but where would they go? I'd imagine Siemens would have to reduce the price - which they may do to LM itself.

6 car length (23m I guess?) would probably work well for the "IC" stuff, particularly the Liverpools for which 4 is insufficient but 8 would mostly be excessive.

I meant Desiro Verve, by the way - that's the 125mph one - same body as the City though I think. A message to LM, though - go 2+1 in First - if you do and keep the walk-up 1st fares reasonable I'll switch for any journey to the North West when I'm not in a hurry. If they'd switch to 2+1 in First for the south WCML services I might even consider a 1st season ticket when commuting, as that would be worth paying for.

Ah yes Verve that's the one, thought city didn't sound right. Yes a first Class driving coach with 2+1 first with catering provision and they'd be almost perfect.
 

sd0733

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There's 3 different bidders for the next franchise so it'll depend whose idea that is.

The 350/2s are Porterbrook while the /1s, /3s and /4s are Angel so there is logic to that suggestion.

If the 6 car sets are used on Liverpool services they would need to have SDO or they'd need platform lengthening at stations like Winsford.

There's only 2 bidder's left now, abellio and govia.
Putting 2and 2 together and getting 6 here but wouldn't surprise me if was the abellio one. I believe a disagreement between abellio and Siemens over the Anglia order was dropped after an order for the West Midlands was mentioned so in theory this could be that order potentially.

Yes and as well as being different Rosco they are apparently on a totally different deal which appararantly is a lot more expensive. Surely they must have known that when they signed the deal!!
Yes Winsford and Liverpool South Parkway would require SDO for a 6 car if they do go to Liverpool
 

D365

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Which makes sense, because LM ran the 321s alongside the 350s and didn't have poor reliability out of those. And the 321s and 319s aren't *that* different, so if there'd been poor maintenance that would have been apparent on the 321s long ago.

Well electrically there are a few notable differences owing to the dual-voltage capability of the Class 319.
 

Bletchleyite

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Yes Winsford and Liverpool South Parkway would require SDO for a 6 car if they do go to Liverpool

I know VT didn't want to serve it any time soon, but not having built South Parkway to take an 11-car Pendolino was *incredibly* short sighted, let alone having built it so it can't even take a double Class 185.
 

pemma

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I know VT didn't want to serve it any time soon, but not having built South Parkway to take an 11-car Pendolino was *incredibly* short sighted, let alone having built it so it can't even take a double Class 185.

TPE originally refused to stop at LSP reportedly because they had signed some kind of deal to promote Manchester Airport and it would conflict with that.

Lengthening to allow a 6 car 185 or equivalent stop at LSP was included in the CP5 plans but I imagine they may have changed now there's no immediate plans to replace 4 car 158s with 6 car 185s on Liverpool to Nottingham services.
 

Bletchleyite

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Fair point, but the station wasn't exactly built on the cheap. Compared with the overall cost, having all platforms (or at least two) able to take 12x20m/11x24m, which for UK purposes is basically complete future-proofing as all current UK formations would fit except the Caledonian which doesn't go anywhere near it, would not have been that expensive.
 

Class377/5

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A shame none went to Southeastern if even for a year or two to alleviate overcrowding.

I know the reasons given on the other thread, which is DfTs failings to plan going back up to a decade for more stabling places.

Don't confuse stabling with maintenance as that's the biggest issue facing SE.

Great thread:D

It would be nice to record and trace movements of TL 319's as they are taken off lease.

Few months before any come off lease now.
 

ABB125

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In Today's Railways (March), it says that class 319s are being moved to Long Marston for storage. The first moved on 17 Jan, and another two on the 24th. However, I can't find any more movements on RealTime Trains. Does anyone know anything about this?
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
According to the Abrail website, I believe that there are 4 so far that have gone into storage. Those being 427, 451, 452, and 456.

If used for Gospel Oak - Barking, there would have to be a minimum of 7 or 8 units, as assuming the route is a 15 minute frequency, this means that there are 6 diagrams required.
 

Llanigraham

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In Today's Railways (March), it says that class 319s are being moved to Long Marston for storage. The first moved on 17 Jan, and another two on the 24th. However, I can't find any more movements on RealTime Trains. Does anyone know anything about this?

Perhaps they went by road?
 

Townsend Hook

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According to the Abrail website, I believe that there are 4 so far that have gone into storage. Those being 427, 451, 452, and 456.

If used for Gospel Oak - Barking, there would have to be a minimum of 7 or 8 units, as assuming the route is a 15 minute frequency, this means that there are 6 diagrams required.
Theoretically if only those four were available you could have three 319 diagrams and double up 172s on the other three. Better than nothing, and at least all services would be four car. I doubt it would happen in practice, though.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

47802

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Theoretically if only those four were available you could have three 319 diagrams and double up 172s on the other three. Better than nothing, and at least all services would be four car. I doubt it would happen in practice, though.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Its been stated a number of times that its unlikely, you have the cost of training crews etc. for a very short period, plus I'm sure Tfl will want the big bang effect of electrification with new trains, rather than here's your new electrified line, with 30 year old electric units, After all this is London not the North:lol:
 

D365

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Its been stated a number of times that its unlikely, you have the cost of training crews etc. for a very short period, plus I'm sure Tfl will want the big bang effect of electrification with new trains, rather than here's your new electrified line, with 30 year old electric units, After all this is London not the North:lol:

Aside from your last sentence, this is why no interim electric units are being introduced.
 

class 9

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Perhaps they went by road?

The moves might not have shown on realtimestrains, as they may have run on a VSTP schedule, this is very short term planning and will have inputted into The system on the day, a few hours before departure.
 

westcoaster

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According to the Abrail website, I believe that there are 4 so far that have gone into storage. Those being 427, 451, 452, and 456.

If used for Gospel Oak - Barking, there would have to be a minimum of 7 or 8 units, as assuming the route is a 15 minute frequency, this means that there are 6 diagrams required.

Think it is only 3 , 214 451, and 452?
 

gimmea50anyday

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Didnt see which ones but there were two thameslink branded 319s parked at Allerton depot today around 11:30 ish. Must be new arrivals.
 

Crossover

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The moves might not have shown on realtimestrains, as they may have run on a VSTP schedule, this is very short term planning and will have inputted into The system on the day, a few hours before departure.

VSTP will end up on RTT as it is still in the data feed
 

507 001

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Didnt see which ones but there were two thameslink branded 319s parked at Allerton depot today around 11:30 ish. Must be new arrivals.

They've been knocking around for a while. Christmas trees for the time being apparently.
 

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