Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[carriageline]

I'm pretty certain one of the overnight passenger service ran through the core using ETCS a week or so ago. It certainly reported moving through the block marker train describer berths, something that would not happen if it was not using ETCS.

I'm not sure if this link will work but you can see the train in question running through the ETCS berths - they begin with 5. http://trackit.uppyjc.co.uk/TrackIT...utoRefresh=False&DisplayMode=TD&Detailed=True

Incorrect. All trains use the 5*** berths now, ETCS or not. No passenger moves have used ETCS yet.

The reason being, last weekend WestCad-E (control system) was commissioned which was the enabling thing for ETCS. This bought into use the 5*** berths, which the TD steps into and out of as per all other berths, but normal trains ignore the marker boards. So soon as the train passes it, it will move the head code to the next berth

Since commissioning, ETCS was essentially inhibited (for a number of reasons), and will be turned on for specific trains (today being the first one).

Trust me, I (and many others) have been working flat out to get to this point the last year or so

 

[louis97]

Incorrect. All trains use the 5*** berths now, ETCS or not. No passenger moves have used ETCS yet.

The reason being, last weekend WestCad-E (control system) was commissioned which was the enabling thing for ETCS. This bought into use the 5*** berths, which the TD steps into and out of as per all other berths, but normal trains ignore the marker boards. So soon as the train passes it, it will move the head code to the next berth

Since commissioning, ETCS was essentially inhibited (for a number of reasons), and will be turned on for specific trains (today being the first one).

Trust me, I (and many others) have been working flat out to get to this point the last year or so

Thanks for enlightening me. Some work to do on RTT for me then!

 

[APUK002]

Incorrect. All trains use the 5*** berths now, ETCS or not. No passenger moves have used ETCS yet.

The reason being, last weekend WestCad-E (control system) was commissioned which was the enabling thing for ETCS. This bought into use the 5*** berths, which the TD steps into and out of as per all other berths, but normal trains ignore the marker boards. So soon as the train passes it, it will move the head code to the next berth

Since commissioning, ETCS was essentially inhibited (for a number of reasons), and will be turned on for specific trains (today being the first one).

Trust me, I (and many others) have been working flat out to get to this point the last year or so

Ooo, oksounds intresting.

 

[Chrisgr31]

This is all so predictable. We've been saying it on here for years so you'd have thought that GTR and the DfT might have realised.

And since when did those two parties listen to anyone?

 

[F Great Eastern]

Been on quite a few 700s the last few days after not going on them for a good few weeks and my one observation is that the PIS is much better and more reliable, been on 9 of them and they're all working really well and the underground status is never more than 5-10 minutes out of date.

Also maybe this question has been asked but what is the issue with the timetables in central London, there's so much slack between many stations it's ridiculous, literally at every stop waiting at least a minute or two, sometimes more for our departure time to come around. Are they going to actually be doing a timetable rewrite sometime to address this?

Honestly I really like the 700s, they're ridiculously good at crowd swallowing that are let down by DFT specification, if they had a proper interior spec they'd be fantastic. I was on 700121 today and it smelt like new even though I believe it's been in service for a month?

 

[carriageline]

Thanks for enlightening me. Some work to do on RTT for me then!

Not a problem! If you need any other help or advice drop me a PM!

 

[sarahj]

An issue has turned up from west coastway testing, from what I hear, is at Lancing. Lancing is just a 4 coach platform. Fine, SDO, as usual, but the disabled area is coach 5. So, errmm. When they start the Littlehampton to London Bridge services in December, we still have no idea what any, if any on board staff will around.

 

[otomous]

An issue has turned up from west coastway testing, from what I hear, is at Lancing. Lancing is just a 4 coach platform. Fine, SDO, as usual, but the disabled area is coach 5. So, errmm. When they start the Littlehampton to London Bridge services in December, we still have no idea what any, if any on board staff will around.

“please tell me this isn’t a government project”

 

[387star]

700036 still has the old logos 700016 possibly as well

I think the new units have been the priority as I have not seen an unbranded unit in a while

700014 has one old logo on one coach ! https://www.flickr.com/photos/10528...ucx-7KuE5H-oBMK1Z-Vw1UKG-7JYYbk-RsXXic-SUZwGN

 

[F Great Eastern]

An issue has turned up from west coastway testing, from what I hear, is at Lancing. Lancing is just a 4 coach platform. Fine, SDO, as usual, but the disabled area is coach 5. So, errmm. When they start the Littlehampton to London Bridge services in December, we still have no idea what any, if any on board staff will around.

Nothing surprises me about the DFT, but I suspect they'll continuing Nationalising the praise and privatizing the blame.

 

[Sunset route]

An issue has turned up from west coastway testing, from what I hear, is at Lancing. Lancing is just a 4 coach platform. Fine, SDO, as usual, but the disabled area is coach 5. So, errmm. When they start the Littlehampton to London Bridge services in December, we still have no idea what any, if any on board staff will around.

Then suddenly Eastbourne gets added to the TL routes and Littlehampton dropped, nah just kidding (I hope) lol

 

[Fincra5]

An issue has turned up from west coastway testing, from what I hear, is at Lancing. Lancing is just a 4 coach platform. Fine, SDO, as usual, but the disabled area is coach 5. So, errmm. When they start the Littlehampton to London Bridge services in December, we still have no idea what any, if any on board staff will around.

Saw some guy measuring Lancing platform the other day. Maybe they're going to do a rushed extension job both sides!

 

[MikePJ]

Saw some guy measuring Lancing platform the other day. Maybe they're going to do a rushed extension job both sides

Melbourn (Cambridgeshire) has a "four coach" platform and was supposed to actually be extended by the Thameslink programme. However, once the 700/0s were actually tried out, it was decided the extension was no longer necessary for access to the wheelchair area. From the internal diagrams here https://www.flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/12209758175/ it looks like the accessible toilet is in Coach 5 but wheelchair passengers are expected to use coaches 4 and 5, and can presumably therefore move through the wide inter-coach gangway to use the toilet, and to leave the train if need be.

 

[spark001uk]

...it looks like the accessible toilet is in Coach 5 but wheelchair passengers are expected to use coaches 4 and 5, and can presumably therefore move through the wide inter-coach gangway to use the toilet, and to leave the train if need be.

Disabled inter-coach access being indicated by the red dotted lines in those layout diagrams I'm assuming? (can't see the key too well).
Either that or it's showing the centre point of the trains? Or maybe it's both??

 

[Bald Rick]

Been on quite a few 700s the last few days after not going on them for a good few weeks and my one observation is that the PIS is much better and more reliable, been on 9 of them and they're all working really well and the underground status is never more than 5-10 minutes out of date.

Also maybe this question has been asked but what is the issue with the timetables in central London, there's so much slack between many stations it's ridiculous, literally at every stop waiting at least a minute or two, sometimes more for our departure time to come around. Are they going to actually be doing a timetable rewrite sometime to address this?

Honestly I really like the 700s, they're ridiculously good at crowd swallowing that are let down by DFT specification, if they had a proper interior spec they'd be fantastic. I was on 700121 today and it smelt like new even though I believe it's been in service for a month?

The running times across the core are essentially the same now as it was when it was an all 319 railway. There is also some recovery time in the core, and a few peak trains also have extended dwells to help make the timetable work either end (evening peak southbound in particular).

The new TL timetable from 2018 is based on Class 700 dwells, and relocates the recovery time from the core to approacjphing the core. It was all in the timetables issued for consultation. I can't remember the core transit time, but I think it comes down to about 8 minutes between departing Blackfriars and arriving St P (and vice versa).

 

[MikePJ]

Disabled inter-coach access being indicated by the red dotted lines in those layout diagrams I'm assuming? (can't see the key too well).
Either that or it's showing the centre point of the trains? Or maybe it's both??

The red dotted line is the centre point of each train, and the idea is that the disabled facilities are in the same place on both types of unit - because in the Core there will be a fixed hump on the platform to assist with rapid boarding for wheelchair users.

 

[RUFJAN15]

An issue has turned up from west coastway testing, from what I hear, is at Lancing. Lancing is just a 4 coach platform. Fine, SDO, as usual, but the disabled area is coach 5. So, errmm. When they start the Littlehampton to London Bridge services in December, we still have no idea what any, if any on board staff will around.

I recall reading somewhere that all the BML diagrams (including Littlehampton/Horsham) were to be FLU's. That puts the wheelchair area in coaches 6&7.

I guess there must be a plan as Littlehaven was extended from 4 to 8 coach length a few years ago with the specific reason given as providing disabled access for Thameslink. However Ifield and Faygate, which will be served by the same trains, remain as 5 coach length.

Was platform lengthening descoped from the Thameslink programme? If so, does anyone know what Plan B is?

 

[tsr]

There has been some speculation that the platform at Ifield will somehow be lengthened (interestingly enough, an action which would also render it totally unfit for conductor dispatch ever again, due to sightlines) and that Faygate station calls might be changed so that it will not be served on routes via London Bridge worked by 700s (and that its closure might be accelerated in favour of a new station elsewhere).

If the 700s used to Horsham and Littlehampton are 12 coach FLUs, then the wheelchair area will be in coaches 6 & 7, and wheelchair users could not be expected to travel in any other part of the train, so far as I know.

 

[Sunset route]

Reports that after Christmas that Horsham sidings which are currently acting as an overflow to Three Bridges Depot (back up to 6 units stored) will start to do light servicing and toilet emptying to clear more room back at the Depot. Now whether that is in connection with th start up of the Littlehampton & Horsham services or because Three Bridges Depot regularly runs out of space I’m not sure.

 

[RUFJAN15]

There has been some speculation that the platform at Ifield will somehow be lengthened (interestingly enough, an action which would also render it totally unfit for conductor dispatch ever again, due to sightlines) and that Faygate station calls might be changed so that it will not be served on routes via London Bridge worked by 700s (and that its closure might be accelerated in favour of a new station elsewhere).

If the 700s used to Horsham and Littlehampton are 12 coach FLUs, then the wheelchair area will be in coaches 6 & 7, and wheelchair users could not be expected to travel in any other part of the train, so far as I know.

I wouldn't write Faygate off yet. Two developers have 'offered' new stations; one towards Horsham and one towards Crawley. NR have said that only one station can be accommodated on this line and neither developer wants to be seen to back down. I have seen no evidence that the DFT are anywhere near considering viability of either proposal.

With the first 700 services scheduled for Dec 18th there is no obvious short-term solution to the short platforms for wheelchair users. There are only a handful of stopping trains to Victoria in the peaks with no alternative to the London Bridge services at other times.

 

[spinba11]

The red dotted line is the centre point of each train, and the idea is that the disabled facilities are in the same place on both types of unit - because in the Core there will be a fixed hump on the platform to assist with rapid boarding for wheelchair users.

When will the humps start to be installed and have the blue tape I’ve seen around where the middle of the train in in the core got something to do with the humps?

 

[387star]

129 is the unit with incorrectly applied logos

 

[Sunset route]

When will the humps start to be installed and have the blue tape I’ve seen around where the middle of the train in in the core got something to do with the humps?

Isn’t it this Christmas closedown when the platform humps get installed at the core stations.

 

[westcoaster]

129 is the unit with incorrectly applied logos

Saw it yesterday, looks somewhat odd

 

[alex397]

I did get a ride on a 700 back when they were first introduced, on a short one-station hop in central London. But today was my first decent trip on a 700, between St Pancras and Elstree & Borehamwood.

I do wonder if the designers ever travel on trains.
On first impressions, the noise they make when entering a station is dreadful - really squeaky and irritating. Also, a mostly white livery is a strange choice for a train, as it looks dirty really easily. When on the train, the interior is bright and airy, which is good. It is a bit clinical, but I don't mind that. I like the destination displays inside - clear to read and the seat map (whatever its called) is good to see. By far the worst thing was the seats - some of the most uncomfortable seats i've ever used on public transport. I had a back ache after the 20 minute(ish) journey.

The trains are perhaps suitable for local Metro-style services like the London Overground. But considering the length of many journeys on the Thameslink, they just seem unfit for purpose. Whilst I seem to remember the Class 319s to be scruffy, they were really comfortable (and from an enthausiasts point of view, had an enjoyable noise! ). The 700s would be impressive if they had a decent livery and comfortable seats.

I feel sorry for regular commuters on the line!

 

[Hadders]

The trains are perhaps suitable for local Metro-style services like the London Overground. But considering the length of many journeys on the Thameslink, they just seem unfit for purpose. Whilst I seem to remember the Class 319s to be scruffy, they were really comfortable (and from an enthausiasts point of view, had an enjoyable noise! ). The 700s would be impressive if they had a decent livery and comfortable seats.

I feel sorry for regular commuters on the line!

Spot on. Awful, awful seats.

 

[physics34]

I did get a ride on a 700 back when they were first introduced, on a short one-station hop in central London. But today was my first decent trip on a 700, between St Pancras and Elstree & Borehamwood.

I do wonder if the designers ever travel on trains.
On first impressions, the noise they make when entering a station is dreadful - really squeaky and irritating. Also, a mostly white livery is a strange choice for a train, as it looks dirty really easily. When on the train, the interior is bright and airy, which is good. It is a bit clinical, but I don't mind that. I like the destination displays inside - clear to read and the seat map (whatever its called) is good to see. By far the worst thing was the seats - some of the most uncomfortable seats i've ever used on public transport. I had a back ache after the 20 minute(ish) journey.

The trains are perhaps suitable for local Metro-style services like the London Overground. But considering the length of many journeys on the Thameslink, they just seem unfit for purpose. Whilst I seem to remember the Class 319s to be scruffy, they were really comfortable (and from an enthausiasts point of view, had an enjoyable noise! ). The 700s would be impressive if they had a decent livery and comfortable seats.

I feel sorry for regular commuters on the line!

It was clear the seats were uncomfortable and deemed unsuitable by some when the mock up was displayed. But nothing was done....

 

[Kite159]

Has anybody managed to get the WiFi to work on those newer FLUs? (125 & 139)

I can get it to connect, but no log in screen appears to make the WiFi usable.

 

[JonathanH]

Has anybody managed to get the WiFi to work on those newer FLUs? (125 & 139)

I can get it to connect, but no log in screen appears to make the WiFi usable.

I got the Wi-Fi to show the login page but not log on - thameslink.on.icomera.com

 

[Bald Rick]

Spot on. Awful, awful seats.

As always - opinion. I like them. Much more preferable than their predecessors. Quite happy to do 2hrs in them, and have done several times. But that is my opinion.