Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[D365]

377s are 15+ years old (some of them anyway) thats probably it

That's probably what?

If you're referring to onboard wifi I expect the equipment will be far newer.

 

[Via Bank]

I think fines should be levied if the toilets are not emptied frequently enough to keep them in service. Far different to them simply being vandalised or something. The trains should report if the tanks are filling up?

That would probably be more effective at stopping complacency when it comes to basic maintenance.

You could also say, particularly on a high frequency service such as Thameslink, that people requiring the accessible loo should be entitled to get off, use a toilet on the station/on the next train, and then claim Delay Repay for the difference in journey time.

True, this might be open to abuse, but that means there’s more incentive for GTR to actually empty the tanks and make sure the toilets are available for use.

 

[Class313:)]

completely agree. Whats the point in getting a PRM train if half the time it isnt actually PRM?

 

[jon0844]

377s are 15+ years old (some of them anyway) thats probably it

Icomera probably make the systems on the older ones too, but the location where trains travel and the network(s) chosen to provide the mobile data will make a huge difference.

As 4G gets more and more users, many areas that once enjoyed good speeds are starting to struggle at certain times of the day. O2 has the least spectrum, along with Three, but Vodafone and EE have various methods to increase capacity - some quite simple software updates (soon all 2100MHz 3G spectrum will switch to 4G on Vodafone - much of which has already happened), to more expensive site upgrades.

 

[ComUtoR]

The question, as always, is. Would you cancel the service because there is no toilet ?

 

[D365]

Whats the point in getting a PRM train if half the time it isnt actually PRM?

It still has to conform to regulations as a design....

 

[urpert]

Icomera probably make the systems on the older ones too, but the location where trains travel and the network(s) chosen to provide the mobile data will make a huge difference.

As 4G gets more and more users, many areas that once enjoyed good speeds are starting to struggle at certain times of the day. O2 has the least spectrum, along with Three, but Vodafone and EE have various methods to increase capacity - some quite simple software updates (soon all 2100MHz 3G spectrum will switch to 4G on Vodafone - much of which has already happened), to more expensive site upgrades.

Agreed - sitting on a train at Victoria at evening rush hour you’ll be lucky to get any sort of connection despite your phone claiming full 4G signal.

 

[APUK002]

the GatEx wifi on the 387s seems to withstand it all. The SN 377 one doesn't tho! So maybe its down to the provider of the wifi?

The same WiFi is used in a lot of trains now, 387’# have same WiFi as 700’s.

 

[APUK002]

I think fines should be levied if the toilets are not emptied frequently enough to keep them in service. Far different to them simply being vandalised or something. The trains should report if the tanks are filling up?

That would probably be more effective at stopping complacency when it comes to basic maintenance.

Ha, toilet delay repay type system?

 

[APUK002]

You can’t use the corridor connections on great Northern anyway.

Says who? Sometimes it(the walkthrough) is open,others not

 

[asylumxl]

Says who? Sometimes it(the walkthrough) is open,others not

Recently I've used the 387s a few times from Kings Cross and the corridor connections have not been use. Rather annoying when the rear fills up and the front has ample seating.

 

[Failed Unit]

Says who? Sometimes it(the walkthrough) is open,others not

GTR themselves.


“I have also been informed that the decision to lock the doors was taken after extensive health and safety reviews that started in the design stage of their construction, and also when they were being assessed for the networks. These doors can be unlocked by either the driver or the onboard staff should the need arise.”

Their statement above is total nonsense of course but GTR refuse to open the doors on great northern services.

 

[Via Bank]

The question, as always, is. Would you cancel the service because there is no toilet ?

And the answer, as always, is no. But you should either allow people to change (to use toilets at stations or board another train with a working toilet) or make toilet stops on infrequent services.

And if it costs the TOC money in Delay Repay or delay minutes racked up by toilet stops? Frankly, who cares?

The punters need to sh*t. If you're frequently paying out compensation or delaying trains for them to do so, then either your maintenance regime or your tanking strategy isn't good enough and you're letting your custmers down.

 

[Goldfish62]

And the answer, as always, is no. But you should either allow people to change (to use toilets at stations or board another train with a working toilet) or make toilet stops on infrequent services.

And if it costs the TOC money in Delay Repay or delay minutes racked up by toilet stops? Frankly, who cares?

The punters need to sh*t. If you're frequently paying out compensation or delaying trains for them to do so, then either your maintenance regime or your tanking strategy isn't good enough and you're letting your custmers down.

I was on a Weymouth to Waterloo train, 2x444, a couple of years ago and all the toilets were out of order. The train had an extended confort break at Bournemouth, then an additional stop at Basingstoke.

 

[AM9]

377s are 15+ years old (some of them anyway) thats probably it

But the wi-fi kit isn't.

 

[Failed Unit]

And the answer, as always, is no. But you should either allow people to change (to use toilets at stations or board another train with a working toilet) or make toilet stops on infrequent services.

And if it costs the TOC money in Delay Repay or delay minutes racked up by toilet stops? Frankly, who cares?

The punters need to sh*t. If you're frequently paying out compensation or delaying trains for them to do so, then either your maintenance regime or your tanking strategy isn't good enough and you're letting your custmers down.

Absolutely agree, I have noticed the situation when using GTR particually bad in the evening when it is actually a surprise to board a train with any working toilets. I know they have bieng out all days so a high chance the tanks are full. But in the evening is when customers are most likely to want them if they have consumed a lot of liquid before boarding. Even if they us the toilet at the station before boarding consideirng these trains travel to Peterborough / Cambridge on 90 minute journeys north (probably longer south of the Thames) anything that make GTR share the customers pain is a good thing (ie hit them in the pocket) GTR don't care about customers so they won't give them a good enviroment willingly so fines is the only thing they understand. They probably would cancel the train if the fine for that is cheaper than no have working toilets on board so I probably should be careful what I wish for. Delay repay won't work, GTR make it so difficult to claim most people won't bother.

 

[urpert]

GTR themselves.


“I have also been informed that the decision to lock the doors was taken after extensive health and safety reviews that started in the design stage of their construction, and also when they were being assessed for the networks. These doors can be unlocked by either the driver or the onboard staff should the need arise.”

Their statement above is total nonsense of course but GTR refuse to open the doors on great northern services.

Hilarious given the same company is happy to open the gangways on the same trains on the other side of London.

 

[SPADTrap]

Hilarious given the same company is happy to open the gangways on the same trains on the other side of London.

To save time when attaching / detaching.

 

[urpert]

To save time when attaching / detaching.

Maybe the Great Northern staff need to spend a day at Haywards Heath or Faversham to see how it's done.

 

[Failed Unit]

Maybe the Great Northern staff need to spend a day at Haywards Heath or Faversham to see how it's done.

They do. But also proves you can’t believe a word GTR say when they lie to passengers in this way. I know that “because we don’t train out staff” isn’t going to go down well but lies are found out. We know they dont train staff as it is thankfully keeping the 700s off great northern a bit longer.

It is annoying about the gangways. Many diagrams don’t couple / uncouple all day but they are still locked out of use.

 

[APUK002]

GTR themselves.


“I have also been informed that the decision to lock the doors was taken after extensive health and safety reviews that started in the design stage of their construction, and also when they were being assessed for the networks. These doors can be unlocked by either the driver or the onboard staff should the need arise.”

Their statement above is total nonsense of course but GTR refuse to open the doors on great northern services.

Not always,they open it sometimes

 

[APUK002]

Absolutely agree, I have noticed the situation when using GTR particually bad in the evening when it is actually a surprise to board a train with any working toilets. I know they have bieng out all days so a high chance the tanks are full. But in the evening is when customers are most likely to want them if they have consumed a lot of liquid before boarding. Even if they us the toilet at the station before boarding consideirng these trains travel to Peterborough / Cambridge on 90 minute journeys north (probably longer south of the Thames) anything that make GTR share the customers pain is a good thing (ie hit them in the pocket) GTR don't care about customers so they won't give them a good enviroment willingly so fines is the only thing they understand. They probably would cancel the train if the fine for that is cheaper than no have working toilets on board so I probably should be careful what I wish for. Delay repay won't work, GTR make it so difficult to claim most people won't bother.

I’ve managed to claim for that reason a few times.

 

[APUK002]

Maybe the Great Northern staff need to spend a day at Haywards Heath or Faversham to see how it's done.

Ha,get them to help!

 

[Failed Unit]

I’ve managed to claim for that reason a few times.

Have they paid straight away or have you needed to appeal, which as you know involved submitting the whole claim including photo of the ticket again.

 

[APUK002]

Have they paid straight away or have you needed to appeal, which as you know involved submitting the whole claim including photo of the ticket again.

Straight away 1st time,no bother

 

[Failed Unit]

Not always,they open it sometimes

I am interested in the last month how many times have you known then open? I use the 387s every day, I have never known it open on the 0725 Cambridge - Kings Cross service (the one that calls at WGC at 0825). On the odd times I have use the 0844 WGC - Kings cross it is also locked out of use. Can't think of any exception in 2018. Maybe I am unlucky...

 

[Failed Unit]

Straight away 1st time,no bother

I need to learn how use delay repay. Normally I get rejected with the "you could have used train x instead" - Normally response is "I could have done if you had told us about the cancellation of my preferred train before train x had departed" or "I tried to use train x but couldn't physically fit on board which is why I ended up on train Y"

 

[Fincra5]

Maybe the Great Northern staff need to spend a day at Haywards Heath or Faversham to see how it's done.

Isn't the station at cambridge staffed by GA? Maybe they're not wanting to employ more staff in order to do these splits. Maybe if GTR funded them...

 

[physics34]

Would love this discussion to go back to 700s

 

[samuelmorris]

Absolutely agree, I have noticed the situation when using GTR particually bad in the evening when it is actually a surprise to board a train with any working toilets. I know they have bieng out all days so a high chance the tanks are full. But in the evening is when customers are most likely to want them if they have consumed a lot of liquid before boarding. Even if they us the toilet at the station before boarding consideirng these trains travel to Peterborough / Cambridge on 90 minute journeys north (probably longer south of the Thames) anything that make GTR share the customers pain is a good thing (ie hit them in the pocket) GTR don't care about customers so they won't give them a good enviroment willingly so fines is the only thing they understand. They probably would cancel the train if the fine for that is cheaper than no have working toilets on board so I probably should be careful what I wish for. Delay repay won't work, GTR make it so difficult to claim most people won't bother.

Presumably the units have their toilets emptied at the same time as they are cleaned, which would explain why the toilets are so often full...