Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[EssexGonzo]

I took my first 700 journey last week from Farringdon to Blackfriars. Short, yes, but having since taken an EMT train to Sheffield and seen how far these trains travel outside of London I'm hugely impressed with their versatility.

In the tunnel from Farringdon they seem to arrive with the frequency of a tube. They're absolutely huge. And the dwell times seems impressively short in rush hour. Yet they travel much further than my commute on a 321 with the same sort of seat configuration.

Yes, I know there are gripes and that there were implementation issues but my hat goes off to the people that planned and implemented them as well as the drivers that shuffle these monsters through the centre with incredible frequency.

 

[BRX]

I like them too, and unlike many I think the interior fitout is good.

 

[Hadders]

I took my first 700 journey last week from Farringdon to Blackfriars. Short, yes, but having since taken an EMT train to Sheffield and seen how far these trains travel outside of London I'm hugely impressed with their versatility.

In the tunnel from Farringdon they seem to arrive with the frequency of a tube. They're absolutely huge. And the dwell times seems impressively short in rush hour. Yet they travel much further than my commute on a 321 with the same sort of seat configuration.

Yes, I know there are gripes and that there were implementation issues but my hat goes off to the people that planned and implemented them as well as the drivers that shuffle these monsters through the centre with incredible frequency.

I suggest you try using the standard class ironing boards for a longer distance journey when it's busy. For example London to Bedford, or London to Huntingdon. You might have a different opinion then.

 

[physics34]

It is. It is just the poor specification of the interior layout that has ruined it. Hopefully this will be rectified at the mid-life refurbishment. It’s poor reliablity is beginning to improve as well.

Needs to be sorted before then!

 

[AM9]

Needs to be sorted before then!

The reliability is more important than the interior that most see as a secondary issue. Given that the 700s will be fully occupied (with spare capacity for necessary servicing) until their mid-life, I doubt that much will change unless it can be done as part of the weekly care. So maybe the seat-back flaps will gradually get bolted on but that's about it as well as regular updates to the PIS software. The only priorities until then are: anything to do with safety followed by improvement of reliability.

 

[387star]

700124 now has tables and wifi the first I've seen retrofitted
Previously AFAIK of the 12s 125 and higher numbers had these

 

[AM9]

700124 now has tables and wifi the first I've seen retrofitted
Previously AFAIK of the 12s 125 and higher numbers had these

Wi-fi always was going to be fitted to all of the class 700s, and they were supplied with wiring already in place. Arguably, wi-fi on an intensive service such as Thameslink is the most important add-on if only to keep passengers informed during disruption.

 

[MML]

I commute on 700s on a daily basis, but only noticed the following peculiarity this morning while stood outside a station awaiting a platform. You know the feeling of watching paint dry.
Well I spotted the sticker with emergency instructions top left of the door frame has a translation in Braille. All very commendable but if I was blind how would I know it was there ? Is this a case of political correctness box ticking for PRM compliance rather than everyday practicality ?

 

[jh64]

Braille is for all people with visual impairments, not just total blindness. You might have enough sight to see the brighter colour of the warning sticker, but not enough to read the text of it.

 

[bramling]

The reliability is more important than the interior that most see as a secondary issue. Given that the 700s will be fully occupied (with spare capacity for necessary servicing) until their mid-life, I doubt that much will change unless it can be done as part of the weekly care. So maybe the seat-back flaps will gradually get bolted on but that's about it as well as regular updates to the PIS software. The only priorities until then are: anything to do with safety followed by improvement of reliability.

I think most passengers take safety and reliability as a given - leaving the interior as a pretty primary issue!

 

[387star]

Seems 700124 had tables all along as it was delivered after 125

According to a user on another forum retrofitting tables has been cancelled

Only 13 of the RLUs have tables in standard
31 of the FLUs

 

[APUK002]

Seems 700124 had tables all along as it was delivered after 125

According to a user on another forum retrofitting tables has been cancelled

Only 13 of the RLUs have tables in standard
31 of the FLUs

So all 700’s built after 12t had tables as built? Others had retrofitted,but this is now cancelled?

 

[spark001uk]

Quick question if anyone knows - what does a repetitive series of 5 short beeps over the pa signify?
My first thought was a cord pull in the disabled toilet?

 

[387star]

So all 700’s built after 12t had tables as built? Others had retrofitted,but this is now cancelled?

No none have been retrofitted only 700124-155 700047-060 have tables in standard and were delivered that way

 

[387star]

Quick question if anyone knows - what does a repetitive series of 5 short beeps over the pa signify?
My first thought was a cord pull in the disabled toilet?

Possibly confirming interlock via the buzzer in bright sun

 

[spark001uk]

Possibly confirming interlock via the buzzer in bright sun

Sorry forgot to say, this was whilst the train was in motion.

 

[WeGoAgain]

Sorry forgot to say, this was whilst the train was in motion.

How many times did you observe this?

Was the Driver making a PA announcement at the time?

 

[APUK002]

No none have been retrofitted only 700124-155 700047-060 have tables in standard and were delivered that way

Ok,thought some earlier units had retro1’s already

 

[APUK002]

How many times did you observe this?

Was the Driver making a PA announcement at the time?

I think it is the driver's PA jingle before the driver speaks; it plays when thr driver presses the PA button in the cab, here’s a video:

Watch from 1:08-1:10, "bing bong” type chime.

 

[spark001uk]

No it was just out of the blue, a series of 5 short loud high pitched beeps, all of the same note, repeated. For about a minute, then it stopped.

 

[APUK002]

No it was just out of the blue, a series of 5 short loud high pitched beeps, all of the same note, repeated. For about a minute, then it stopped.

Oh,don’t know then.

 

[jon0844]

No it was just out of the blue, a series of 5 short loud high pitched beeps, all of the same note, repeated. For about a minute, then it stopped.

My guess would be a call for aid type alarm. It is not the same as the pre-PA announcement jingle.

I've heard it a couple of times, and at no time did the train stop or even slow. The driver was likely talking to the person via the intercom on the call for aid. I have no idea why the tone would play throughout the train though, given there's no guard on a 700 (even though there are panels if such a situation should change if/when the trains are one day cascaded*).

* 717s have no guard panels. Clearly destined to never move from the Moorgate route, or to have extra staff.

 

[MML]

There is now a nice new graphic and announcement informing passengers they are sat at a red signal and should be moving again shortly. After being stationary for all of 30 seconds, the announcement came on and the graphic appeared.
Now having travelled by rail for a number of years, when the train comes to a stop, I always assumed it was at a red signal and was awaiting clearance to proceed. So why do we have to have yet another announcement telling us the obvious.

Anyway, sure enough we were soon on the move again. But the graphic showing we were at a red signal remained displayed, even when travelling at 70 mph, the PIS was informing passengers that we were still held at a red signal.

This continued until 5 minutes to the hour, when the constipated crackling Dalek informed passengers to 'See it, say it, sort it' with the rather racist and sexist graphic of a black man looking rather shifty and a slim female looking rather vulnerable.
Having crackled through it's first offering, it then repeated itself a further 2 times. The graphic was stuck so the useful information such as toilet availability and next station stops were no longer displayed.

It then took the announcement of the Brighton Line improvement project, where the improvement will be the absence of any trains for a period of weeks, to unstick the PIS display.

Apart from wondering why we need to be bombarded with such annoying irrelevance on our daily commutes, why does the "See it, Say it, Sort it" always have a crackling Dalek voice whereas the red stop signal announcement is perfectly clear.

And when can we expect the PIS to inform us all that Jennifer who has exited the forward toilet hasn't put the toilet lid down after flushing and Trevor who has just exited the rear toilet cubicle hasn't washed his hands.

 

[jon0844]

The See it, say it... bit stutters on the audio until the graphic fully loads. Once it is rendered in full, the audio plays fine. I expect the file size is too large or badly compressed? The others seem to load far quicker and cause no such issues.

 

[jh64]

I absolutely would appreciate non-hand washers being shamed on the PA like that though!

 

[387star]

The PIS system requires each manually selected pre recorded message to be cleared manually or it stays stuck on the screens. Would make sense if it timed out.

Likewise if you skip stops you can not remove the original stopping pattern from the screens without clearing it despite already having selected skip. To clear involves selecting clear enter play enter ... basically pressing buttons many times

you cannot skip stations in advance either
Not a great system

 

[jon0844]

Having just returned from Berlin, it's a shame the screens can't show information about each station (such as what train services you can connect to and what time/platform). The 700 PIS has a 4G connection so it could pull real time information for much more than just TfL services, as was available in Germany.

 

[samuelmorris]

I'm sure I've seen at least one PIS on upcoming UK stock advertising that feature, I don't remember which one it was. Possibly the Northern connect units?

 

[Peter Sarf]

There is now a nice new graphic and announcement informing passengers they are sat at a red signal and should be moving again shortly. After being stationary for all of 30 seconds, the announcement came on and the graphic appeared.
Now having travelled by rail for a number of years, when the train comes to a stop, I always assumed it was at a red signal and was awaiting clearance to proceed. So why do we have to have yet another announcement telling us the obvious.

Anyway, sure enough we were soon on the move again. But the graphic showing we were at a red signal remained displayed, even when travelling at 70 mph, the PIS was informing passengers that we were still held at a red signal.

This continued until 5 minutes to the hour, when the constipated crackling Dalek informed passengers to 'See it, say it, sort it' with the rather racist and sexist graphic of a black man looking rather shifty and a slim female looking rather vulnerable.
Having crackled through it's first offering, it then repeated itself a further 2 times. The graphic was stuck so the useful information such as toilet availability and next station stops were no longer displayed.

It then took the announcement of the Brighton Line improvement project, where the improvement will be the absence of any trains for a period of weeks, to unstick the PIS display.

Apart from wondering why we need to be bombarded with such annoying irrelevance on our daily commutes, why does the "See it, Say it, Sort it" always have a crackling Dalek voice whereas the red stop signal announcement is perfectly clear.

And when can we expect the PIS to inform us all that Jennifer who has exited the forward toilet hasn't put the toilet lid down after flushing and Trevor who has just exited the rear toilet cubicle hasn't washed his hands.

Okay Okay - I promise I will flush it next time . Must admit I hesitate to wash my hands in automatic sinks since my bad experience. One of those automatic sinks dispenses soap first then.... no water. Its a nuisance having a broken hand dryer but to end up with soap all over your hands is terrible. I try to lift the lid and close/open the door using the minimum of skin contact. On existing have you ever wondered why the door handle is wet ?. Was it someone who could not be bothered to dry their hands after washing or was it a wet unwashed hand ?.

The PIS system requires each manually selected pre recorded message to be cleared manually or it stays stuck on the screens. Would make sense if it timed out.

Likewise if you skip stops you can not remove the original stopping pattern from the screens without clearing it despite already having selected skip. To clear involves selecting clear enter play enter ... basically pressing buttons many times

you cannot skip stations in advance either
Not a great system

How much of a distraction is this for the driver ?.

Having just returned from Berlin, it's a shame the screens can't show information about each station (such as what train services you can connect to and what time/platform). The 700 PIS has a 4G connection so it could pull real time information for much more than just TfL services, as was available in Germany.

It does vex me being bombarded by info about the Tube services as I head South non-stop from Blackfriars (London Bridge nowadays) towards East Croydon. There is only the tram left to worry about. After East Croydon do the announcements about TfL still appear ?.

 

[DaveN]

After East Croydon do the announcements about TfL still appear ?.

Yes. You get that screen the whole time. Very useful if you are travelling from Flitwick to Bedford for example.