• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

Status
Not open for further replies.

notverydeep

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2014
Messages
872
Three 700s have had glass smashed. Now it seems a 387 has had damage too. At least some reported as vandalism. Trains hit with grafitti too.

The 4 car 365 is apparently standing in for a 700 that had the cab windscreen broken.

Indeed, 700019 on 2C06 0751 King's Cross to Cambridge had a significant graffiti attack evident this morning. The plain fact is, if you want to keep a lid on this, you must not put trains with significant graffiti into service. When they go into service, they invite another ten more instances of the same or worse and it soon gets out of control. Some operators do manage to keep this in check by just this strategy. I can understand GTR's reluctance to cancel given other performance issues, especially over the past 12 months and yes there will be complaints and a hit to take on scores in the short term, but letting everyone see what the vandal derives kudos from being seen is a huge mistake.

I can imagine that having a huge expanse of curved glass is a real problem for maintainers, really expensive and presumably takes ages to install and for the glue to cure...
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
They did finally remove all the graffiti on the 313s so I hope this new batch will be dealt with swiftly.

We can all be sure the 717s are going to be massive targets and zero tolerance is the only way to discourage them becoming wrecked inside and out.
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
I though have never said that the Class 700s will never fail, what I did say though in my post above is that train faults can happen to any train regardless of type that is a fact of life.

It is just unfortunate that the train in question this time was a Class 700, my view still stands though.



This doesn't make any grammar sense at all, can you please clarify exactly what you mean by this?
Just for you - the CIS frequently doesn’t work.

As for your view on the reliability of the 700 can you back this up with facts? MTIN is pathetic on them. You say MTIN is unfair on long trains. Which therefore means the 153 must be mega reliable.
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
Do you have the figures and can you post them please ?
I don’t have the modern railways magazine they were published in. From memory.

Class 700 - circa 10k (but improving)
Class 313 GN - circa 15k
Other GN trains all above 20k.

The March edition will have an update.
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
Apparently the 700s are on 14k. Combination of software improvements and fixing the cctv camera’s. So still poor for a modern EMU (when compared to the 365s and 387s). But catching the levels set by the 313s. (Which are declining as the fleet gets ran down prior to withdrawal)
 

Aictos

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
10,403
As for your view on the reliability of the 700 can you back this up with facts? MTIN is pathetic on them. You say MTIN is unfair on long trains. Which therefore means the 153 must be mega reliable.

Can you actually provide the post where I said this? Never said anything about MTINs and long trains, all I have said though is the fact that train faults can and do happen to any type of traction be it steam, diesel or electric and that is a fact of life.

I also stated before that the Class 458 upon entering service was deemed to be so unreliable that the TOC was leaning towards replacing them however 8 years on, they won awards for being so reliable.
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
Can you actually provide the post where I said this? Never said anything about MTINs and long trains, all I have said though is the fact that train faults can and do happen to any type of traction be it steam, diesel or electric and that is a fact of life.

I also stated before that the Class 458 upon entering service was deemed to be so unreliable that the TOC was leaning towards replacing them however 8 years on, they won awards for being so reliable.

:rolleyes:

Of course it is correct faults can happen on any train - but totally irrelavant. Why to they happen more frequently on the 700s then they do on the rest of the GTR fleet? They are the one that at the moment is the least reliable train in the GTR fleet. You can see the figures yourself that demonstrate this.

Yes they may get awards one day - but the class 180s may also get reliability awards one day as well. They are creaping up on the 313s at the moment, but still about 1/3 as reliable as the 365s and 387s,
 

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,653
That’s because it’s not happening, as discussed upthread.
Says who

Doesn't make sense
How can money be available to install wifi in shabby 313s while brand new 700s are left without?
On Twitter you get people assuming the wifi isn't working . A gamble as to tables and wifi isn't ideal
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
Says who

Doesn't make sense
How can money be available to install wifi in shabby 313s while brand new 700s are left without?
On Twitter you get people assuming the wifi isn't working . A gamble as to tables and wifi isn't ideal

Is it happening on the 313s? Seen it on many of the 365s but not a 313.

Must admit I also think it is a mistake about not retrofitting the tables on the rest of the 700s (if they indeed are not)

As you say they both show up and the dwell times are no different if a unit with tables shows up compared to one without. Likewise, when the unit has the seat back tables they do actually get used.
 

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,653
Is it happening on the 313s? Seen it on many of the 365s but not a 313.

Must admit I also think it is a mistake about not retrofitting the tables on the rest of the 700s (if they indeed are not)

As you say they both show up and the dwell times are no different if a unit with tables shows up compared to one without. Likewise, when the unit has the seat back tables they do actually get used.
Southern 313s
 

choochoochoo

Established Member
Joined
6 Aug 2013
Messages
1,215
Have they updated the software on 700s ? They don't seem to get the same initial acceleration they had when they first came into service.

It used to be if you took max power from a standing start, anything not tied down would get sent flying back. So I only tended to do it when driving empty stock.

These days, when taking max power from standing start, the acceleration seems a lot tamer.
 

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,399
Location
UK
Have they updated the software on 700s ? They don't seem to get the same initial acceleration they had when they first came into service.

They update the software on a semi regular basis. I haven't noticed any change to their acceleration and they feel as consistent as ever. There is a good technique to check a units acceleration. You are relatively new iirc ? It might be worth asking about how to check a units performance as you drive them. It may be that as you get used to them, everything becomes normal.

Off my head, I forget how to pull the software number off the DMI but its there somewhere.
 

choochoochoo

Established Member
Joined
6 Aug 2013
Messages
1,215
They update the software on a semi regular basis. I haven't noticed any change to their acceleration and they feel as consistent as ever. There is a good technique to check a units acceleration. You are relatively new iirc ? It might be worth asking about how to check a units performance as you drive them. It may be that as you get used to them, everything becomes normal.

Off my head, I forget how to pull the software number off the DMI but its there somewhere.


It's nothing recent. I remember when I first drove one a couple years back, it felt like it moved like the proverbial of a shovel. But these days they seem much less nippy. I may have just got used to them, but i'm sure things don't shift off the drivers desk as much as they used to.

I am pretty new. I'll ask a manager about checking the acceleration.
 

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,399
Location
UK
There was an update for the 'anti-jerk' function. It was a while back.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,354
Anti jerk function, that’s funny
Jerk is the rate of change of acceleration / deceleration measure in ms^-3 and all recent stock contracts set a strict limit for it controlled by the traction software.
 

choochoochoo

Established Member
Joined
6 Aug 2013
Messages
1,215
Jerk is the rate of change of acceleration / deceleration measure in ms^-3 and all recent stock contracts set a strict limit for it controlled by the traction software.
It was quite noticeable when the 700s first came in. Felt like a boy racer when you took full power from a standing start.

Sad it's gone now, but for passenger comfort it's understandable.
 

bionic

Member
Joined
8 Nov 2013
Messages
883
It was quite noticeable when the 700s first came in. Felt like a boy racer when you took full power from a standing start.

Sad it's gone now, but for passenger comfort it's understandable.

Yeah they are a far cry from 319s. You're now waiting to time at stations you were always late at before! Much better in the wet too. Mind you, a few lads have still managed to slide through the usual suspect stations in 700s! I preferred two handles of the 319 and the lack of computer screens blaring in your face, but have to admit the 700s are a far better unit from a drivers perspective.
 

Bald Rick

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Sep 2010
Messages
29,070
Yeah they are a far cry from 319s. You're now waiting to time at stations you were always late at before! Much better in the wet too. Mind you, a few lads have still managed to slide through the usual suspect stations in 700s! I preferred two handles of the 319 and the lack of computer screens blaring in your face, but have to admit the 700s are a far better unit from a drivers perspective.

Also autumn and winter are now irrelevant; at least from the passengers’ perspective.
 

ComUtoR

Established Member
Joined
13 Dec 2013
Messages
9,399
Location
UK
How much of that is down to the units and how much is it down to other factors ?

Foliage management
Better MPV/RHTT Circuit management
Better reporting (rule book change)
Better Driver competence (PDP changes/training)
De-icing (375s)
General weather differences.
The fact that 319s were an absolute nightmare so a poor comparison.
 

hwl

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2012
Messages
7,354
How much of that is down to the units and how much is it down to other factors ?

Foliage management
Better MPV/RHTT Circuit management
Better reporting (rule book change)
Better Driver competence (PDP changes/training)
De-icing (375s)
General weather differences.
The fact that 319s were an absolute nightmare so a poor comparison.

Double the number of power axles on 700s and circa 50% more on electrostars will also make difference irrespective of rolling stock supplier
 

Class455

Established Member
Joined
19 May 2016
Messages
1,394
Are there any videos around containing the announcement chime from a Class 700?
I heard it the other day on my train and it sounds exactly the same as the one in Heathrow Airport!
 

TT-ONR-NRN

Established Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
10,413
Location
Farnham
Are there any videos around containing the announcement chime from a Class 700?
I heard it the other day on my train and it sounds exactly the same as the one in Heathrow Airport!
I thought it was the same too initially but it’s not. It’s the Dutch chime, a bit like “bing bong and then another tiny almost unnoticeable bing” where as Heathrow T5 has more of a long, drawn out “bing bonnnnnng”
 

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,653
So the wifi and seat back table lottery continues

All southern trains now have wifi
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top