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Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

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RichardN

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What interests me is why the early deliveries are being split into sections? This implies later deliveries may come in in a complete unit. What is the reason they need to be split now, but may not need to be in future?
 
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RobShipway

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I'd be interested to know that too

Brighton will still be used for the class 377's for the Brighton to Victoria service plus other services, so I doubt that it will be downgraded.

Once the class 700's come online, you will see 377's cascaded to the Southern services replacing the likes of the class 313's.
 

Yabbadabba

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What interests me is why the early deliveries are being split into sections? This implies later deliveries may come in in a complete unit. What is the reason they need to be split now, but may not need to be in future?

Beacause there are no working brakes on the class 700s for the first few deliveries. The unit is split up to allow brake force and barrier wagons to be inserted to allow even braking. The later deliveries will be complete units in between translator wagons which will the the units brakes to work.
 

hwl

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Brighton will still be used for the class 377's for the Brighton to Victoria service plus other services, so I doubt that it will be downgraded.

Once the class 700's come online, you will see 377's cascaded to the Southern services replacing the likes of the class 313's.

313s aren't going anywhere. The released Southern 377s will be heading north to strengthen metro services so more 10 car services can run and 25units going to southeastern. The thameslink 377/5 will mostly be replacing 365s etc.
 

RichardN

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Beacause there are no working brakes on the class 700s for the first few deliveries. The unit is split up to allow brake force and barrier wagons to be inserted to allow even braking. The later deliveries will be complete units in between translator wagons which will the the units brakes to work.

So, is the reason the translator wagons aren' ready yet, or does the 700's braking system need some sort of approval before the brakes are trusted enough to be used as part of the braking force of the towed consist?
 

Yabbadabba

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So, is the reason the translator wagons aren' ready yet, or does the 700's braking system need some sort of approval before the brakes are trusted enough to be used as part of the braking force of the towed consist?

I only signal the things and that's as much as the information pack includes for what a signaller needs know apart from route and out of gauge instructions. Where they are at with the certification is between Siemens, GTR and their contractors. But we do have the instructions for how to deal with them once all the brake wagons are no longer needed.

All I know was the first 5 class were due to arrive with brake force and barrier wagons (a 27 vehicle formation for a 12 car cl700) and the next 110 were due to arrive with just translator wagons.
 

user15681

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Class 700 stop markers are being installed at the moment diamond signs with either RLU or ALL written in them.

There will also be 'FLU' signs too (abbreviation for 'Full Length Unit' aka 12 car 700, as opposed to RLU for 'Reduced Length Unit' aka 8 car 700 or ALL for both), although presume no FLU's gone up yet.

700 stop markers have to be placed in different locations to existing stop markers for same length units, hence the changes so they're not confused with existing stop markers.
 
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swt_passenger

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These signs meaning what exactly?

Is it that the RLU (reduced length unit) decodes as "8 car 700", and ALL decodes as "12 car 700" (rather than using FLU for full length as it looks too similar). It perhaps makes the 700 car stop marks completely different to the existing, to amplify the difference for drivers.

Because the 700 stopping points are geared up to having the central DDA area always in the same place, it may be that an 8 car 700 stop mark is not in the same place as any 8 car existing train such as a 377, or a 319, especially if the latter are still using platform monitors?
 
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user15681

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Is it that the RLU (reduced length unit) decodes as "8 car 700", and ALL decodes as "12 car 700" (rather than using FLU for full length as it looks too similar). It perhaps makes the 700 car stop marks completely different to the existing, to amplify the difference for drivers.

Because the 700 stopping points are geared up to having the central DDA area always in the same place, it may be that an 8 car 700 stop mark is not in the same place as any 8 car existing train such as a 377, or a 319, especially if the latter are still using platform monitors?

RLU and FLU markers will have different coloured borders (one purple, one blue).

It's more that the 700s don't have side windows in the cabs. That could mean units stopping in inconsistent places, or slightly short. Therefore, to see the stop markers, the markers need to be a few feet in front of where the train will actually stop. That way, the stop marker will be visible in the top left corner of the windscreen when the unit stops (as opposed to existing markers which are immediate left of the cab.) Hence why the stop markers are different, to stand out from existing ones.

I believe this is only a trial for a year or so, to see if it works, but there's been a lot of support for the idea already.
 
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insane_lewis

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I only signal the things and that's as much as the information pack includes for what a signaller needs know apart from route and out of gauge instructions. Where they are at with the certification is between Siemens, GTR and their contractors. But we do have the instructions for how to deal with them once all the brake wagons are no longer needed.

All I know was the first 5 class were due to arrive with brake force and barrier wagons (a 27 vehicle formation for a 12 car cl700) and the next 110 were due to arrive with just translator wagons.

Just to add the translator wagons aren't ready yet so the first five or six are coming as 'super trains'

Looks like I'm on shift for the next delivery too :)
 
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jopsuk

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RLU and FLU markers will have different coloured borders (one purple, one blue).

4/8/12 car markers at Broxbourne (and other West Anglia stations?) are in yellow/blue/purple (may have the order wrong- but it's a while since I was there)
 

A-driver

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That'll put a stop to platform staff who like to have a chat with the drivers!


They do have side windows in the cabs which open. All trains do. Even on things like 180s the driver has an openable side window.
 

whoosh

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Voyagers and Meridians have a fixed side window for positioning of stop car markers, and an inward opening door for conversations with platform staff!
 

jon0844

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Voyagers and Meridians have a fixed side window for positioning of stop car markers, and an inward opening door for conversations with platform staff!

Surely in this day and age, drivers and platform staff should be chatting to each other on Whatsapp or similar? ;)
 

Dr Iver

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Surely in this day and age, drivers and platform staff should be chatting to each other on Whatsapp or similar? ;)

Who says we don't?!?!?

Anyhow, few questions if anyone could oblige. When is the next one due? is it true the first five over will be split up like the first one but will have to go back, and will the drivers be learning 73's?

Cheers. :)
 

Class377/5

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Who says we don't?!?!?

Anyhow, few questions if anyone could oblige. When is the next one due? is it true the first five over will be split up like the first one but will have to go back, and will the drivers be learning 73's?

Cheers. :)

1) Soon
2) Yes
3) No (might be one expection to this)
4) No, why would they?
 

swt_passenger

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Peter Sarf

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So are you saying another one has been delivered?

Got a puzzling formation/consist from someone. But its nothing to do with Class 700s. But remember, when there is a delivery, do not expect it to be a complete unit !.

Thanks for the info swt_passenger - that's vary useful.
 
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Class377/5

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Got a puzzling formation/consist from someone. But its nothing to do with Class 700s. But remember, when there is a delivery, do not expect it to be a complete unit !.

Thanks for the info swt_passenger - that's vary useful.

All units will be delivered as a whole, with initial units in pieces (like 700106) which will be marshed in depot.
 

Jedipickles

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Another 700 is due to be delivered on Tonight/Wednesday morning is the word in the grapevine

2135 off Dollands Moor, RTT shows it's an as required path but I've heard it's planned for tonight but this can change!
 
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