thameslink - fgw cascade

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by ess, 11 Nov 2011.

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  1. ess

    ess Member

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    I read here before that the thameslink trains will be cascaded to the thames valley in 2013. Where is that published and when will it be in 2013? Will it be 4 and 8 car formations or mixtures of 2,3,4,5,6 cars as now on the thames valley?
     
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  3. bnsf734

    bnsf734 Member

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    I think that as the contract for the new Thameslink stock hasn't even been signed yet, it is very unlikely anything will get cascaded to the Thames Valley services in 2013 ... or 2014 ... possibly 2015.

    Southern are not expecting their 377/5 back from Thameslink until 2015, hence the possible fill in order for more 377's that has been raised.

    I would expect the 319's when they move to remain as 4 car sets.
     
  4. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Under the plan produced by the previous government the 319s would start being withdrawn from Thameslink in 2012 and then start entering a refurbishment program, to be introduced first in the North West from 2013 and then in the Thames Valley. This replaced their previous plan of new diesel trains for additional capacity coming in to service in the North and South West by the end of 2012.

    Add to the above delays caused by the general election, the coalition government's spending review and no quick decision being made on awarding the Thameslink tender and 2012 now reads 2015. Although, the coalition government have not published any new document detailing revised plans for the North West or Thames Valley.

    The 319s can't be reformed with incurring great expense as they don't have trailer vehicles included within the 4 carriages.
     
  5. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    Are you sure on this point? As far as I can search, they're formed (ignoring accomodation class) Driving trailer - Pantograph Motor - Trailer - Driving Trailer, just like the 317 and 321s but with collection shoes on the driving trailers and consequently a power line through the formation?
     
  6. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    No. It's what I was told when I misintrepted the IEP review mentioning re-engineered 4 class 319s and 5 car EMUs in the same sentence when talking about Thames Valley. I assumed from that it was talking about 5 car 319s, which it wasn't and was told by a few people that the 319s can't be reformed in to 3 and 5 car formations.
     
  7. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    As far as I am aware, the reason that the 319s can't be reformed to be anything other than their current four carriage length is because some of the units' electrical equipment is carried on the intermediate trailer vehicle.
     
  8. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    In other words it probably could be done if they threw enough money at it, but for the remaining in service life (10 - 15 years) it won't justify it.
     
  9. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    but is that electrical equipment required for AC-only operation?
     
  10. ess

    ess Member

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    How exactly would they be used in the thames valley where there's no wires or third rail?
     
  11. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    Electrification?!
     
  12. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    Well I think they meant after the wires have been installed on the lines to Newbury, Oxford, Reading etc.

    There a point raised in the last issue of rail magazine of FGW getting new emu's rather than the class 319's. The idea was that Northern would get more class 319's with FGW getting acouple for local routes around Bristol.
     
  13. Temple Meads

    Temple Meads Established Member

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    Best thing about all this, is that surely us in the west country, can get our hands on the Turdbos.
     
  14. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    That is providing they can be cleared for some of the routes down there.
    I suspect that the turbos will also be used to displace some or all of the class 150/158's used on services around Bristol to be cascaded down to the west country.
     
  15. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    Only one vehicle has traction motors, the PMS, the other three (DTS(A)/DTC, DTS (B) and ATS) are trailer vehicles.

    Aside from the unit's only toilet(s), the ATS carries the Main Air Resevoir, Compressor and electrical equipment (not just the underfloor stuff either) which would have to be relocated for the 319 to become a three car unit.

    So, yeah, with enough money they could do it, but it ain't worth it.

    There is very little on a 319 that can simply be removed if it is to never use DC again, IIRC it would be the shoe gear, shoe fuse and bus wires only.
     
  16. DXMachina

    DXMachina Member

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    DC ability could be useful for 319s operating around Reading, which has 3rd rail network access, I assume they'd be maintained at Selhurst still.
     
  17. hairyhandedfool

    hairyhandedfool Established Member

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    The 319s were allocated to Cauldwell Walk (Bedford) last I heard, they might still do some maintenance at Selhurst though.
     
  18. TEW

    TEW Established Member

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    Maintenance would move to FGW's depot at Reading.
     
  19. Minstral25

    Minstral25 Established Member

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    Haven't seen a 319 in Selhurst for ages and I pass most weekdays. I think FCC have some kept at Brighton overnight and Southern maintain them but their main depot is Bedford.

    Always surprised me that FCC didn't allocate the 377's to Brighton so that Southern could maintain them, as Southern are keeping 319 knowledge just for FCC whilst they do not run any themselves.

    Could they start refurbishing the 319's now so we could get some seats that Human being could sit in!! Worse seats of any train I have ever been on and no I have never been on a Pacer thankfully
     
  20. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    In theory that would be an excellent idea if FCC could afford to lose a few trains at a time for refurbishment.

    However, who's going to decide what spec to refurbish them to? The future franchise operators who haven't been decided on yet?

    Although for the North West routes something like the 185 interior would work well, given the 319s will be directly replace some 156s and 185s. It would, however, mean less seats on FCC services if it was done to 319s before they were transferred.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    As Sprinterguy pointed out. The problem appears to be that the 'trailer vehicles' contain essential wiring.
     
  21. TEW

    TEW Established Member

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    Not uncommon, depots up and down the country have knowledge on the Voyager fleets despite not being XC depots.
     
  22. A-driver

    A-driver Established Member

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    Southern used to maintain 319a for FCC but FCC brought it in house as the quality started to decline-southern prioritised their own fleet and performance on 319s suffered. That's why FCC DI their own 377s. 319s still go in Selhurst often on Sunday's for various shines to get them out the way etc.
     
  23. HH

    HH Established Member

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    Yeah, none of the FCC fleet is maintained by Southern and it hasn't been for some time. Some units are stabled at Brighton & Selhurst, but they no longer clean FCC units at Brighton either.

    Possibly Southern got their noses put out of joint when FCC took away the maintenance, because I'm told they're as awkward as possible on any commercial deal.
     
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