Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[sefton]

I'm not spinning anything just pointing out you're wrong.

So they didn't cancel 87.5% of their services, 7 out of 8 over a four and a half hour period, whilst other operators ran almost a normal service?

 

[jon0844]

Do GTR only run 8 trains every four or five hours?

 

[sefton]

Do GTR only run 8 trains every four or five hours?

To Peterborough they do - except when they don't because they can't deliver a service when others can.

 

[jon0844]

So the percentage was merely about one service. I read it as almost 90% of all GTR services were cancelled.

I still say that if you had to cut services (and there was no option not to) these should be the first to go. There were better alternatives, and limping these up to Peterborough would have impacted their return workings.

 

[Failed Unit]

So the percentage was merely about one service. I read it as almost 90% of all GTR services were cancelled.

I still say that if you had to cut services (and there was no option not to) these should be the first to go. There were better alternatives, and limping these up to Peterborough would have impacted their return workings.

I am sure the GTR apologists who rarely use the service have already looked at yesterday’s ppm. It was a very high % cancelled or very late. But i know that GTR can do no wrong in their eyes. But I disagree. Was 1tph that much to ask? What had Huntingdon done wrong?

Surely thining down some of the 5 tph on the Cambridge route is a better option? Isn’t Peterborough to Horsham a better service to preserve over Brighton - Cambridge?

I must stop responding - this is so far off topic I will be upsetting the moderators

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Yesterday was a complete and utter meltdown - not just on GN - but in a few other places as well.

From what I can see - and from conversations with "those inside" - the up morning peak was "run" as far as possible , and the down evening peak looked to be about as best achievable as possible - considering there were other issues south of the Thames.

Anybody , who has ever , tried to co-ordinate a massive disruption as this , will appreciate how genuinely difficult this sort of "job" is , - this is not say the Northern Line where you have one type of train and everything stops everywhere and there are no other operators around with differing requirements and markets. (Oh yes - the train operators sign all routes and sidings / deports)

What about freight for example ? - their only cleared route is via Hertford , (not many I know) let alone the tricky logistics of getting empties back in position for the next "peak" .....

The big picture of immense disruption to LNER - markets served from a bit further north than Sandy have to be considered. In times of acute disruption have to be considered as well as the bread earners on the commuter / school flows.

 

[jon0844]

I am sure the GTR apologists who rarely use the service have already looked at yesterday’s ppm. It was a very high % cancelled or very late. But i know that GTR can do no wrong in their eyes. But I disagree. Was 1tph that much to ask? What had Huntingdon done wrong?

Surely thining down some of the 5 tph on the Cambridge route is a better option? Isn’t Peterborough to Horsham a better service to preserve over Brighton - Cambridge?

I must stop responding - this is so far off topic I will be upsetting the moderators

Use a LNER train to Stevenage or Peterborough and get a taxi or bus (paid for by GTR) rather than running a likely almost empty service from Finsbury Park that uses a path and then has no chance of getting back to serve the core and south, leaving them with nothing.

The Hertford Loop is slower and has just two tracks. Even without two train issues it was physically impossible to fit all the trains through. Nobody could do it. The paths had to be used sensibly and I expect priority was given to the IC operators. Local stations on the loop must have been royally stitched up as there's no way they'd fit on the 6 car 313 coming down once per hour.

Basically the only solution was not to have someone throw themselves in front of a train. And a lot of work has already been done at Potters Bar to try and reduce suicides, but it can never be 100% successful.

 

[Minstral25]

Between the 11.45 and 16.15 scheduled services, four and half hours, GTR ran one train to Peterborough.

By any measure that is an utter failure, particularly when other operators were running trains over the same route north.

At the same time Peterborough did at least have services from LNER and others.

Several Stations south of ECR/Redhill had no services whatsoever for a similar extended period (as PBO to Horsham services weren't running) and no other operator (Basically GTR itself) decided to stop any of the other trains passing through those stations, leaving passengers completely isolated. Shambles indeed

 

[Failed Unit]

Use a LNER train to Stevenage or Peterborough and get a taxi or bus (paid for by GTR) rather than running a likely almost empty service from Finsbury Park that uses a path and then has no chance of getting back to serve the core and south, leaving them with nothing.

The Hertford Loop is slower and has just two tracks. Even without two train issues it was physically impossible to fit all the trains through. Nobody could do it. The paths had to be used sensibly and I expect priority was given to the IC operators. Local stations on the loop must have been royally stitched up as there's no way they'd fit on the 6 car 313 coming down once per hour.

Basically the only solution was not to have someone throw themselves in front of a train. And a lot of work has already been done at Potters Bar to try and reduce suicides, but it can never be 100% successful.

You GTR apologist do try avoid facts. The line fully reopened at the point GTR stopped serving Hitchin to Peterborough.

As I have said. Thin out Cambridge. Give both Peterborough and Cambridge less trains. Peterborough trains won’t carry thin air LNER need to cancel as well.

GTR need a plan b which they don’t have. Suicide today. Failed train a Welwyn North, overhead line damage, flooding. All have closed that section of line in recent years. GTR need a recovery plan. They couldn’t even manage that before Thameslink made it mission impossible.

As for a bus / taxi paid for by GTR. If you had attempted to travel between may and July you would know that simply doesn’t work. It is like getting a rail ticket accepted on an Arriva bus.

 

[Bedpan]

I don't see why there's an argument. If you arrive at St Pancras at 11.46 and stay there until 16.14, you will have been there for 4 hours and 28 minutes. How many trains would have departed for Peterborough in that time? However many that is is the number that have departed in a 4 hour 28 minute period.

 

[bramling]

I am sure the GTR apologists who rarely use the service have already looked at yesterday’s ppm. It was a very high % cancelled or very late. But i know that GTR can do no wrong in their eyes. But I disagree. Was 1tph that much to ask? What had Huntingdon done wrong?

Surely thining down some of the 5 tph on the Cambridge route is a better option? Isn’t Peterborough to Horsham a better service to preserve over Brighton - Cambridge?

I must stop responding - this is so far off topic I will be upsetting the moderators

During disruption much if not most depends on the crew reliefs. So one can’t simply divert a train to X if the driver is due off at Y, or if you did it might cause even more problem later when another train turns up and the driver is now in the wrong place. Then there’s things like driving parameters, route knowledge, stock knowledge, et cetera. Meanwhile if the driver is on his last trip and due to finish at X then forget anything else!

Having said all that, I agree with the general point. Yesterday was unacceptable, and points to the same theme as elsewhere - the setup simply isn’t resilient. More slack on both the train and crew diagrams would help - but as we found out in May they hardly have the resources to run things as is, let alone with more breathing space.

Once again, how many years did they have to get ready for all this?

 

[sefton]

Use a LNER train to Stevenage or Peterborough and get a taxi or bus (paid for by GTR)

You really think GTR would pay for a taxi from Peterborough or Stevenage for those customers wanting to go to Huntingdon, St Neots, Sandy, Biggleswade, or Arlesey (because there is no bus service from Peterborough or Stevenage to those places)?

It is good being optimistic but this is not pushing the envelope but so far beyond it...

 

[Aictos]

I don't see why there's an argument. If you arrive at St Pancras at 11.46 and stay there until 16.14, you will have been there for 4 hours and 28 minutes. How many trains would have departed for Peterborough in that time? However many that is is the number that have departed in a 4 hour 28 minute period.

Instead of waiting around for a direct train, there were alternatives available such as using LNER to travel to Peterborough then get taxis back or use the MML then taxi to the neighbouring ECML stations.

For example;

Welwyn Garden City/Knebworth - passengers could have used either St Albans stations
Stevenage/Hitchin - passengers could have used Luton/Luton Airport Parkway
Arlesey - passengers could have used Flitwick
Sandy to Huntingdon - passengers could have used Bedford

etc....

If you just count LNER services heading north, you had 12 stopping at Peterborough which could have been used for Huntingdon, St Neots or Sandy passengers to travel back from and you had 7 stopping at Stevenage which could have been used for Hitchin to Biggleswade passengers to be taxied from.

Yesterday was a complete and utter meltdown - not just on GN - but in a few other places as well.

From what I can see - and from conversations with "those inside" - the up morning peak was "run" as far as possible , and the down evening peak looked to be about as best achievable as possible - considering there were other issues south of the Thames.

Anybody , who has ever , tried to co-ordinate a massive disruption as this , will appreciate how genuinely difficult this sort of "job" is , - this is not say the Northern Line where you have one type of train and everything stops everywhere and there are no other operators around with differing requirements and markets. (Oh yes - the train operators sign all routes and sidings / deports)

What about freight for example ? - their only cleared route is via Hertford , (not many I know) let alone the tricky logistics of getting empties back in position for the next "peak" .....

The big picture of immense disruption to LNER - markets served from a bit further north than Sandy have to be considered. In times of acute disruption have to be considered as well as the bread earners on the commuter / school flows.

I've never been in a position to co-ordinate a massive disruption such as yesterday but I have been involved in numerous incidents just as bad if not worse then yesterday so I do understand the difficulty faced in yesterday's challenging times.

 

[Skimble19]

You really think GTR would pay for a taxi from Peterborough or Stevenage for those customers wanting to go to Huntingdon, St Neots, Sandy, Biggleswade, or Arlesey (because there is no bus service from Peterborough or Stevenage to those places)?

It is good being optimistic but this is not pushing the envelope but so far beyond it...

Yes, they will, certainly from any stations between Stevenage and Huntingdon (Peterborough would depend on LNER staff) but the delay / wait must be at least 60 minutes. Passengers will not be put in taxis or on buses until it has reached that point.

Please don't try and say this doesn't happen as it does, thousands of taxis have been used since May and are still used now during disruption, and countless buses ordered and used too. Even yesterday there were buses on GN shuttling to those stations with large service gaps where it was possible to do so, unfortunately it is never possible to get buses on scene en-masse as quickly as everyone would like but once they do arrive they are used.

Generally the preference is to use replacement buses first but if none are available taxis will be used.

 

[Aictos]

Yes, they will, certainly from any stations between Stevenage and Huntingdon (Peterborough would depend on LNER staff) but the delay / wait must be at least 60 minutes. Passengers will not be put in taxis or on buses until it has reached that point.

Please don't try and say this doesn't happen as it does, thousands of taxis have been used since May and are still used now during disruption, and countless buses ordered and used too. Even yesterday there were buses on GN shuttling to those stations with large service gaps where it was possible to do so.

Generally the preference is to use replacement buses first but if none are available taxis will be used.

Indeed plus stations between Stevenage and Huntingdon could have used TL services to MML stations and then be taxied across IF need be.

You are quite right though that the wait must be 60 minutes but I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule such as flights etc?

 

[Bedpan]

Instead of waiting around for a direct train, there were alternatives available such as using LNER to travel to Peterborough then get taxis back or use the MML then taxi to the neighbouring ECML stations.

For example;

Welwyn Garden City/Knebworth - passengers could have used either St Albans stations
Stevenage/Hitchin - passengers could have used Luton/Luton Airport Parkway
Arlesey - passengers could have used Flitwick
Sandy to Huntingdon - passengers could have used Bedford

etc....

If you just count LNER services heading north, you had 12 stopping at Peterborough which could have been used for Huntingdon, St Neots or Sandy passengers to travel back from and you had 7 stopping at Stevenage which could have been used for Hitchin to Biggleswade passengers to be taxied from.
.

I know, but I was just saying that if I had spent 4 hrs 28 minutes from 11.46 till 16.14, I would have seen one train depart for Peterborough, so I don't understand why it is suggested that saying there was one train from St Pancras to Peterborough in that period, when there should have been eight, is an incorrect statement.

 

[Skimble19]

Indeed plus stations between Stevenage and Huntingdon could have used TL services to MML stations and then be taxied across IF need be.

You are quite right though that the wait must be 60 minutes but I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule such as flights etc?

Absolutely, all passengers have to do is ideally get as close as possible to their destination by train if possible, then speak to station staff who will advise if it's a bus/taxi/wait for a train if it'll be quicker. Ticket acceptance was definitely in place between GN / MML so yes definitely something that can be done.

Station staff are allowed to use their discretion with regards to the 60 minute rule, but it would need to be something such as flights that could be missed (i.e passengers staying in a hotel overnight for a flight tomorrow will be waiting!), Eurostar, hospital / court appointments etc.

The best bet is to speak to staff nicely and explain whatever it is that you have to get to, chances are a much better outcome will be received than by those who stand there ranting and raving and still get nothing.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Instead of waiting around for a direct train, there were alternatives available such as using LNER to travel to Peterborough then get taxis back or use the MML then taxi to the neighbouring ECML stations.

For example;

Welwyn Garden City/Knebworth - passengers could have used either St Albans stations
Stevenage/Hitchin - passengers could have used Luton/Luton Airport Parkway
Arlesey - passengers could have used Flitwick
Sandy to Huntingdon - passengers could have used Bedford

etc....

If you just count LNER services heading north, you had 12 stopping at Peterborough which could have been used for Huntingdon, St Neots or Sandy passengers to travel back from and you had 7 stopping at Stevenage which could have been used for Hitchin to Biggleswade passengers to be taxied from.



I've never been in a position to co-ordinate a massive disruption such as yesterday but I have been involved in numerous incidents just as bad if not worse then yesterday so I do understand the difficulty faced in yesterday's challenging times.

Exactly - no matter how good the disruption strategy contingency plans are - wherever you are - the reality of a real time incident is always different , and it gets overwhelming at times. Done my bit I assure you ......but we always reviewed it within 24 hours and agreed on what was well handled and what could have been done better. One thing was to always thank the staff and drivers / conductors for thinking a bit laterally and never critisicising them for certain actions when they used their initiative safely......(and of course the signalmen) ......never , ever balked at taxi's being used when neccessary. On one occasion we got a thank you for the latter as the bloke got a job as a result of quick action by a station despatcher in bundling him into a cab direct.....(to his interview) .......

 

[sefton]

Yes, they will, certainly from any stations between Stevenage and Huntingdon (Peterborough would depend on LNER staff) but the delay / wait must be at least 60 minutes. Passengers will not be put in taxis or on buses until it has reached that point.

Please don't try and say this doesn't happen as it does, thousands of taxis have been used since May and are still used now during disruption, and countless buses ordered and used too. Even yesterday there were buses on GN shuttling to those stations with large service gaps where it was possible to do so, unfortunately it is never possible to get buses on scene en-masse as quickly as everyone would like but once they do arrive they are used.

Generally the preference is to use replacement buses first but if none are available taxis will be used.

Sorry, but I am going to call nonsense.

To start with you have to deal with the utter failure of GTRs communications. Trains were being shown as on time at St Pancras until they were cancelled as they were due to depart, despite the train not having left Horsham. So you would be needing to convince GTR staff that they should pay for a taxi for a train which is showing as on time.

Then you have the rubbish system which GTR uses to book taxis, which is some bonkers centralised system where no taxi driver wants to take the job. The last time I encountered this the staff tried to organise taxis after another fatality but an hour and half later after having done so no taxis had arrived. This was 7.30pm on a weekday evening at Welwyn Garden City.

Finally if this was what customers should do, then GTR would tell them via their website, Twitter, etc. They don't, so it isn't.

Indeed plus stations between Stevenage and Huntingdon could have used TL services to MML stations and then be taxied across IF need be.

And if GTR wanted customers to do that then they would suggest to them they could. They didn't, so they didn't want people doing that and wouldn't pay for it.

 

[The Box Photter]

Instead of waiting around for a direct train, there were alternatives available such as using LNER to travel to Peterborough then get taxis back or use the MML then taxi to the neighbouring ECML stations.

For example;

Welwyn Garden City/Knebworth - passengers could have used either St Albans stations
Stevenage/Hitchin - passengers could have used Luton/Luton Airport Parkway
Arlesey - passengers could have used Flitwick
Sandy to Huntingdon - passengers could have used Bedford

etc....

If you just count LNER services heading north, you had 12 stopping at Peterborough which could have been used for Huntingdon, St Neots or Sandy passengers to travel back from and you had 7 stopping at Stevenage which could have been used for Hitchin to Biggleswade passengers to be taxied from.



I've never been in a position to co-ordinate a massive disruption such as yesterday but I have been involved in numerous incidents just as bad if not worse then yesterday so I do understand the difficulty faced in yesterday's challenging times.

I don't know if you're familiar with the geography, but Flitwick is about 9 miles away from Arlesey and there's no connecting bus service or taxi rank at Arlesey Station.

In reality, there's a limited amount of things that can be done straight away when a fatality happens, but there seems to be no contingency at all to attempt to deliver a meaningful service when things like this happen. I accept that drivers might run out of hours whilst they wait to try to drive trains through the disruption, so why have drivers sitting around twiddling their thumbs? Use their available hours to operate a split service either side of the disruption. It might mean at the end of the day that GTR will have to pay for taxis to get them home, but that's one of the risks of operating the contract.

When a fatality or signal failure or points failure or power failure happens, the service should be split into three parts, GN, BedPan and London - Brighton, with the drivers being moved to operate the services by Uber if necessary. I know that this might result in a reduced service over part of the network if stock is trapped the wrong side of the incident, but it will reduce the impact over the wider network and deliver a more consistent service for the majority of passengers. On Monday there were a number of incidents across the network, but because GTR stubbornly persists in trying to run their ludicrously complicated end to end timetable, the delays and gaps in the service magnified over the day. When the fatality at Welwiyn happened, the GN service ought to have been quarantined. When the points failure happened between Gatwick & Redhill, the Brighton Line service should have been split and a short term Gatwick - Bedford timetable implemented.

Surely some kind of computer-modelling can be undertaken to simulate incidents happening at various times during the day to establish what contingency might be possible, or does GTR just make it up as they go along?

 

[jon0844]

What's wrong with GTRs cab booking system? If you give staff your details to pass on, you should get a text saying where the car is, what car it is, the plate and driver name. That's what has happened for me.

Cab firms surely won't refuse to accept easy (safe) fares where they know they'll get paid.

The issue will be that local firms are used so when there's disruption there will be people making their own bookings and on a Monday morning I bet many cab drivers were taking a rest after a busy weekend or doing contract work (school runs etc).

Bet I'm about to be called an apologist again but taxis can't be pulled out of thin air. At certain times there may be a considerable wait and if someone is incredibly desperate then maybe taking a taxi at your own expense from a nearby rank (if there is one) is the only option.

 

[Skimble19]

Sorry, but I am going to call nonsense.

To start with you have to deal with the utter failure of GTRs communications. Trains were being shown as on time at St Pancras until they were cancelled as they were due to depart, despite the train not having left Horsham. So you would be needing to convince GTR staff that they should pay for a taxi for a train which is showing as on time.

Then you have the rubbish system which GTR uses to book taxis, which is some bonkers centralised system where no taxi driver wants to take the job. The last time I encountered this the staff tried to organise taxis after another fatality but an hour and half later after having done so no taxis had arrived. This was 7.30pm on a weekday evening at Welwyn Garden City.

Finally if this was what customers should do, then GTR would tell them via their website, Twitter, etc. They don't, so it isn't.



And if GTR wanted customers to do that then they would suggest to them they could. They didn't, so they didn't want people doing that and wouldn't pay for it.

Well, I'm sorry, you can call nonsense, but that's the process. We all know there's major issues, and the disruption on Monday lasted far longer than it should have, but not everything is useless..

If a train is showing as on time, despite having not departed, it would take very little, if any convincing, as staff would be able to have a look and see where the train was (if running!).

With regards to booking taxis, there is the potential to have issues at Welwyn as they don't have a proper rank, whereas stations such as Stevenage, Hatfield, Hitchin, Letchworth, Biggleswade, St Neots, Royston and Huntingdon do, so unless all the taxis were gone passengers will be going into the ones on the rank first. Unfortunately at places such as Welwyn without a rank staff are at the mercy of the taxi companies having vehicles available.

 

[bramling]

Anybody , who has ever , tried to co-ordinate a massive disruption as this , will appreciate how genuinely difficult this sort of "job" is , - this is not say the Northern Line where you have one type of train and everything stops everywhere and there are no other operators around with differing requirements and markets. (Oh yes - the train operators sign all routes and sidings / deports)

The comparison with the Northern is an interesting one for sure. The Northern has the luxury of diversionary routes, just like Thameslink, although a prolonged shutdown like Hampstead to Edgware, as in fact happened last Boxing Day, will challenge even the most experienced minds - too awkward to implement an emergency timetable, but enough to cause complete carnage.

However unlike GN, the controllers on the Northern will be dealing with something like a 95 train service at peak, with trains coming thick and fast through the crew relief points potentially every 2 minutes. What the service gains from lack of diversity it suffers from with its intensity and number of trains/staff. But even if the morning peak is at meltdown point - which for this purpose
I’d define as when you have people still on their first train at the point they should have had their break and be getting on their second - it will be back by the mid afternoon when late turns have turned up. This evidently didn’t happen on Monday with GN, and to me that points to a more structural problem. If they couldn’t get something basic like the hourly Cambridge/Brighton service back by the evening peak, for example, it’s reasonable to ask questions IMO. Clearly there is something fragile about the locations of the stabling and/or crew locations is suspect, and/or the way the timetable, train diagrams and/or crewing diagrams are structured.

On this note I can’t help but continue to notice there’s still a hell of a lot of drivers travelling “pass” on GN - not always clear whether on the way to work or during a duty - either way when the job is up the wall this is a risk as naturally drivers won’t be getting where they need to be, and as comms break down they potentially become “lost” if the controllers can’t keep track of where they are. With things as they were on Monday it could
provide some explanation as to how things dragged on.

At the end of the day there have been messy protracted GN incidents in the morning peak pre-May, and I’ve certainly never known things drag on for anything like as long. And needless to say I can’t resist adding that I’m sure the good people on the Horsham and Brighton lines appreciated a day of disruption they wouldn’t have had pre-May...

And finally I can’t resist reminding everyone of a certain comment made by a certain poster about Great Northern. The word was “simple” I seem to recall. Really sir? ...

 

[Failed Unit]

I have noticed most of the people on here criticising GTR actually use the service on daily basis to get to work, the 2 main apologists don’t.

They are saying posters using the service are wrong, trying to score points on irrelevant detail etc while they get their information from the luxary of Twitter. Next time we have disruption i would suggest they get to the station to see what things are really like. It may open their eyes.

GN say - use buses x, y and z.
Reality - Arriva drivers force you to pay and don’t let you on? Why is this GNs fault? It happens to frequently they should have sorted it by now or stop advertising acceptance.
GN say - train x is on time.
Reality- it is cancelled or skip stopping. Station staff or not even told so the operator looks clueless. If the apologists know why can gn tell staff.
GN say - skipping stops helps.
Reality- train runs empty but recovers very little if any time. How much time did the 0750 Cambridge north - London save on Monday. Before one of the apologist say it stopped at WGC because I looked it up from the comfort of my armchair. It did on the fast line.

What does disputing minor details make. Cambridge- Brighton train fails on the loop. Reaction 1 - it didn’t happen, reaction 2 try to discredit the post by getting picky about exactly where it failed. Does it actually matter if it was Cufley, Bayford or Hertford it still failed but it seems to make the apologists happy. Same as the level of service to Peterborough the fact was the gap in service was unacceptable- scoring points on how long it really was - pointless. The apologist will say but they ran 1 service. I have had this many times - they ran 1 service but no-one could board it. Something again the apologist refuse to accept.

I use the service. GTR can handle disruption. They don’t inform passengers and take too long to recover. Worse than any other operator I have used. So please apologists next time we have disrupted services get to the station and see what really happens. You will see lots of staff trying their best and working with incorrect information.

Then try delay repay. Gets rejected for an incorrect reason. You need to resubmit everything to dispute it. I haven’t dealt with another TOC than handles delay repay so badly but remember it is in their interest to make things hard. More profit for them.

Get to Finsbury Park and see how many people miss trains to the core as the first time we know it has changed platforms is when it arrives and it impossible to get from 2 to 4 in the dwell time. I still walk between the kx and st Pancras for safety.

The apologist see to think GTR were the victims of network rail in the May 2018 fiasco. But we are now in January 2019 still without the full service promised in May. I can’t see how the apologists can still say GTR are the innocent victims.

 

[bionic]

You will see lots of staff trying their best and working with incorrect information

That's my general experience of GTR.

 

[jon0844]

I have to day this use of the word apologist is starting to get tiresome. It's a different opinion.

And trains can't stop on the fast at WGC as you well know so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I didn't say if a train stopped or not, just reminded you of reasons why some trains don't stop. Again as you must know as you use the trains so much.

 

[Failed Unit]

I have to day this use of the word apologist is starting to get tiresome. It's a different opinion.

And trains can't stop on the fast at WGC as you well know so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I didn't say if a train stopped or not, just reminded you of reasons why some trains don't stop. Again as you must know as you use the trains so much.

I am saying the 0750 Cambridge north - London skipped the stop. Despite monitors on the platform saying it was stopping even taking the dispatcher by surprise. Yes they can stop on the fast at a red signal hence why real train times recorded it. But another poster actually used this to try from their armchair say it did stop. Someone decided in control to skip stop. Not tell staff on the ground so we have an empty time skip stopping with no benefit to anyone. You gave reasons why trains skip stop but I will never understand why this was a viewed a good idea. If it was - why not tell the poor staff at knebworth, Welwyn north, wgc and Hatfield who hadn’t had a southbound train stop of circa 2 hours. The mood on the platform change from the situation is unfortunate to anger (remember this kind of thing is common since May). It puts staff at risk as unfortunately some people take it out on them. (We will always condemn them). But as my criticism of GTR goes. They are often not responsible for the initial incident but always have no plan to recover after it. Information provide to staff is poor / wrong but people won’t accept this franchise is rotten at the contract level with respect to the fact DFT can do nothing to get them to improve.

Many poster leap directly to the defence of GTR without even checking the facts first. Not putting you in that category just saying it happens on here.

We had another poster on here (who doesn’t use the service) saying it is all our own fault and we should have got the bus to St Albans. This is tiresome as you personally know it is not possible without paying and takes about 1 hour so unless you know the line is shut for longer than that not worth it.

 

[Aictos]

The best bet is to speak to staff nicely and explain whatever it is that you have to get to, chances are a much better outcome will be received than by those who stand there ranting and raving and still get nothing.

Indeed a few years ago at Stevenage, there was major disruption resulting in rail replacement buses being used late at night to move people.

One guy stood there ranting and raving at the incident manager who because of their actions not only didn't get a seat on the coach but had to pay for their own travel via taxi so while everyone got moving and on their way, his journey was made even more late because of their bullying tactics.

What's wrong with GTRs cab booking system? If you give staff your details to pass on, you should get a text saying where the car is, what car it is, the plate and driver name. That's what has happened for me.

Cab firms surely won't refuse to accept easy (safe) fares where they know they'll get paid.

The issue will be that local firms are used so when there's disruption there will be people making their own bookings and on a Monday morning I bet many cab drivers were taking a rest after a busy weekend or doing contract work (school runs etc).

Bet I'm about to be called an apologist again but taxis can't be pulled out of thin air. At certain times there may be a considerable wait and if someone is incredibly desperate then maybe taking a taxi at your own expense from a nearby rank (if there is one) is the only option.

The other thing as well is when the system which when used by GTR to request taxis don't operate their own taxis but have contracts with local firms who may or may not have any taxis available at that specific time.

Example, one customer back in 2016 was booked a wheelchair taxi for her power scooter now she was delayed from her station of origin so staff at both stations thought they were now not travelling.

Nearly 2 hours later, the call comes though for the assist so the cab booking system is requested to source a taxi to take her however at this time none were available so it was the case of being put back onto the next train to her destination and have the staff travel with her to assist her off.

You are right though because taxis cannot be pulled out of thin air but the number of times I've used them, I've never had a issue.

Exactly - no matter how good the disruption strategy contingency plans are - wherever you are - the reality of a real time incident is always different , and it gets overwhelming at times. Done my bit I assure you ......but we always reviewed it within 24 hours and agreed on what was well handled and what could have been done better. One thing was to always thank the staff and drivers / conductors for thinking a bit laterally and never critisicising them for certain actions when they used their initiative safely......(and of course the signalmen) ......never , ever balked at taxi's being used when neccessary. On one occasion we got a thank you for the latter as the bloke got a job as a result of quick action by a station despatcher in bundling him into a cab direct.....(to his interview) .......

Exactly, every incident is different I know FCC had a lot of disruption plans to try to cater for every incident but at best they were only a guide to managing the disruption.

As to using certain actions, I used to disregard the no smoking ban whenever there was disruption affecting the station I was working at for the simple reason it prevented staff assaults as it made the atmosphere more calmer, never got criticised for doing that.

 

[MJG]

Another service went down the wrong road at Blackfriars N.Bound this morning:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W02891/2019/01/16/advanced

Guessing it was sent into P2 in error - they had to reverse back and reset. It's worrying how frequently this seems to be happening.

 

[LeeLivery]

I am saying the 0750 Cambridge north - London skipped the stop. Despite monitors on the platform saying it was stopping even taking the dispatcher by surprise.

I've had this happen more than once at Sydenham before May. It drives you up the wall. Southern Metro is probably the only true success story from May and it still isn't great.