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Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

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Failed Unit

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Today, Wednesday 11 July 2018 - Updated at 08:20
Additional cancellations are to be expected this afternoon. The resourcing departments are working hard to ensure that as few services are affected as possible. Further information will be available on this at 16:00.

This is beyond a joke now.
To be honest this applies to any day since the timetable was introduced. A bit pointless GTR publishing this.

However. It reinforces my cynicism that nothing will change next week. The peak time timetable is the one they fail to deliver every single day. If they can sort it next week why haven’t they already?
 
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Today, Wednesday 11 July 2018 - Updated at 08:20
Additional cancellations are to be expected this afternoon. The resourcing departments are working hard to ensure that as few services are affected as possible. Further information will be available on this at 16:00.

This is beyond a joke now.

In the old days, a threatening memo would have been sent out to staff saying anyone that went sick wouldn't be paid / needed a doctor's note. But now they're just giving in to staff who want to have the afternoon off to watch the football.
 

Teflon Lettuce

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In the old days, a threatening memo would have been sent out to staff saying anyone that went sick wouldn't be paid / needed a doctor's note. But now they're just giving in to staff who want to have the afternoon off to watch the football.
and your evidence for that scurrilous accusation is? it's not as if Thameslink has run a perfect service on non-football days is it?
 

bionic

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Oh, so England's run in the world cup is the reason why GTR services have been up the spout since mid-May? And there was everyone else foolishly thinking it had something to do with the timetable change!
 

Teflon Lettuce

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Oh, so England's run in the world cup is the reason why GTR services have been up the spout since mid-May? And there was everyone else foolishly thinking it had something to do with the timetable change!
oh of course, we're also forgetting the super long heatwave we've had this year... all those staff taking time off to go sunbathing....

Seriously, I thought that people were a bit more informed these days about why transport isn't working...

does the rail industry still even have "sick pay from day one" these days?
 

Nick66

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I think the comment was somewhat tounge in cheek but there may be a few extra sicknesses later today and not only on the railway
 

ComUtoR

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Not all grades do.

Agreed :)

I always wonder why the 'railway' gets treated differently. Same with various other sectors. Yes we get good pay and good conditions but today Smyths stores are closing at 1800 Yet, they are to be applauded rather than vilified for closing early. The second anything on the railway is changed, all hell breaks loose. Can I have this evening off ?

I'll go in tomorrow with a hangover instead...
 

Teflon Lettuce

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Agreed :)

I always wonder why the 'railway' gets treated differently. Same with various other sectors. Yes we get good pay and good conditions but today Smyths stores are closing at 1800 Yet, they are to be applauded rather than vilified for closing early. The second anything on the railway is changed, all hell breaks loose. Can I have this evening off ?

I'll go in tomorrow with a hangover instead...
I don't think the railway gets treated that much different... Bus drivers will be expected to work as normal, as will restaurant and bar staff, Police, Ambulance, Fire etc etc... if you want to be able to take time off at the drop of a hat don't work in a service industry... and, unlike many in the service industry, at least those on the railways get well rewarded for having such an "awkward" job!
 

ComUtoR

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... if you want to be able to take time off at the drop of a hat don't work in a service industry...

It's not the industry that dictates the time off. The company does. A well run company, with adequate staff cover, well balanced rosters, flexible working hours, etc etc. is something any business needs to strive for. The problem with GTR and various other TOCs is that none of those things exist. They run the business on a knife edge. Something like this, which happens only every 4yrs, is never taken into account. The personal lives of their staff is brushed to one side so when you may get increased sickness, lack of rest day volunteers, increased leave demands etc. the staffing issues are magnified and even broken.

If you don't like it change job, is a poor attitude to take. We are in this situation with staffing because that's how this industry, and the public, believe workers should be treated. It's why staff fight back against their company. People will simply blow in the day for sickness because they have little alternative. People will choose to not work the overtime because it has become so precious to have the time off. In all the companies I've ever worked for. I have never seen sickness as high as I see at my TOC.

and, unlike many in the service industry, at least those on the railways get well rewarded for having such an "awkward" job!

Yep. Money talks.

It's easy to forget that when your rushing home or down to the pub to watch the game tonight and demanding that your train is there, at the station, on time. That the *poor person up the pointy end may have wanted to watch the game too. It can be restrictive as hell at times but payday can certainly ameliorate the pain.


*and everyone else who has to work.
 

radamfi

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Maybe it would have been better if there was a strike today, so we actually know what is going to run this afternoon/evening? It would also enable some people to work from home. Belgian Railways were on strike yesterday/today.

There were already warnings posted on the Southern website last night that there would be overcrowding this afternoon because of people going home early to watch the match, so the extra cancellations will exacerbate this.
 

OwenB

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Maybe it would have been better if there was a strike today, so we actually know what is going to run this afternoon/evening? It would also enable some people to work from home. Belgian Railways were on strike yesterday/today.

There were already warnings posted on the Southern website last night that there would be overcrowding this afternoon because of people going home early to watch the match, so the extra cancellations will exacerbate this.
Yup. Certainly advising of problems before people had set off to work would have been some help, to arrange working from home, etc.
 

Teflon Lettuce

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It's not the industry that dictates the time off. The company does. A well run company, with adequate staff cover, well balanced rosters, flexible working hours, etc etc. is something any business needs to strive for. The problem with GTR and various other TOCs is that none of those things exist. They run the business on a knife edge. Something like this, which happens only every 4yrs, is never taken into account. The personal lives of their staff is brushed to one side so when you may get increased sickness, lack of rest day volunteers, increased leave demands etc. the staffing issues are magnified and even broken.

If you don't like it change job, is a poor attitude to take. We are in this situation with staffing because that's how this industry, and the public, believe workers should be treated. It's why staff fight back against their company. People will simply blow in the day for sickness because they have little alternative. People will choose to not work the overtime because it has become so precious to have the time off. In all the companies I've ever worked for. I have never seen sickness as high as I see at my TOC.



Yep. Money talks.

It's easy to forget that when your rushing home or down to the pub to watch the game tonight and demanding that your train is there, at the station, on time. That the *poor person up the pointy end may have wanted to watch the game too. It can be restrictive as hell at times but payday can certainly ameliorate the pain.


*and everyone else who has to work.
I don't think my response was a poor attitude... your original post read "not fair Smyths are closing early to watch the football why can't I?"

truth is, if you work in the rail industry you took the job fully knowing that there will be times when it will impact on your social life... just like others in the service industry. When I used to do allocations for a bus company it always amazed me how often a driver would come to the window and say "you've got to change my shift tomorrow, I've got a wedding/ birthday/ doctor's appointment/ etc" Amazingly, seeing as the rotas had been up for months, my response was always "find a mutual {swap}"
 

ComUtoR

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I don't think my response was a poor attitude...

Apologies. I was not being specific to you personally, hence not quoting you for it. But yes I do believe that the mantra of if you don't like it change jobs is the wrong one. Employers have to modernize and the railway also has to. People are often stating about how the railway is stuck in the 70's with its attitudes and working methods. Part of modernising the TOCs is also modernising employment practices. Not forgetting that part of this mess is about how they staff and how staff are reacting.

your original post read "not fair Smyths are closing early to watch the football why can't I?"

I used it more as a comparative. How much of a morale boost do you think Smyths employees just got ? An employee down the line may just pause before taking a sickie. What about the public perception of the company ? Is it a good thing that they are closing early or shall we lambast them because my daughter wants to buy a new football because of England fever but can't because the local toy shop is "!$£$!£"% closed !!

truth is, if you work in the rail industry you took the job fully knowing that there will be times when it will impact on your social life... just like others in the service industry.

Not really. This forum is very insular in their perceptions. I never knew anything about working on the railway when I joined. I never knew about bank holiday rotation, I never knew about working on boxing day or christmas day. I never knew that leave would be refused outright simply on the whim of the company. I never knew that they would unilaterally cancel all ad hoc leave during the Olympics... I know now and I post in the careers section stating how this job isn't all rose petals and champagne. I have never worked anywhere when a request for a day off is refused outright with no explanation. I also never knew how much it paid.

When I used to do allocations for a bus company it always amazed me how often a driver would come to the window and say "you've got to change my shift tomorrow, I've got a wedding/ birthday/ doctor's appointment/ etc" Amazingly, seeing as the rotas had been up for months, my response was always "find a mutual {swap}"

It's a poor manager and poor company who forgets their employees have a life outside work. I had a relative die and was refused time off to attend the funeral. My Managers response was very much I should find a swap. As I have mentioned before. When I was starting my Management career one company had almost eradicated sickness and never had any staff cover issues because they had some very good employment practices. My best friend used to be a Bus Driver and he too saw a high level of sickness at his Depot. Why ? Because its easier to just go sick.

I understand that the company has a business to run and we have discussed this before but running your staff to the limit of breaking to save a few pennies is much more detrimental in the long run. GTR did not have enough Drivers, trained or otherwise to implement the timetable. It's a large reason why its so very broken. I know staff who will not lift a finger to help because their leave request was declined because they had to cover additional work outside their normal working. We have more than a few additional STP diagrams that need covering. Some of those cancelled trains out there are being canceled because some people just have more important things to do than give time to the company.

You say about rotas being up for months. As a Manager what would you do and as a Company, what has GTR done to allow for staff potentially blowing in today and tomorrow ? Have they been proactive and arranged extra cover or covered leave for people who applied ? Incentivized people to come in and deal with the crowds and drunken yobs to get home or put on any additional trains around city centers ?

I fully agree with what you said. People will believe that cancelled trains are down to staff taking time off for football. I do wonder, how much of that will be true and yes, not just on the choo choos.
 

jon0844

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I think the comment was somewhat tounge in cheek but there may be a few extra sicknesses later today and not only on the railway

There could be some sickies but far more likely people being asked to do rest day work said no thanks.
 

Mutant Lemming

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The thread seems to be heading off topic - The reality is those who run Thameslink don't really give a monkeys about it otherwise they wouldn't be 'trying to sort it out' they'd actually sort it out.
Yesterday it took 3 hrs 40 mins to get from St.Pancras to Amsterdam - the return flight was on time arriving 21:40.... it then took 3hrs 30 to make the 20 mile journey home. Cancellations, complete lack of information and advice for hundreds of people many with cases.. last minute platform changes... if you deliberately set out to fk it all up and dissuade people from ever using or relying on your service again then you could just not do a better job than the current incumbents.
I understand how staff feel under siege but management need to get a team of people to advise passengers at ALL of it's stations. St.Albans station was like the Marie Celeste at midnight - many people heading in to London ended up getting to St.Pancras after the tube had stopped with Thameslink staff conspicuous by their absence. if they can't even manage the shambles in a half decent fashion it's time they stepped aside and let someone else do it.
 
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jellybaby

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Naturally this could lend some bias to a photo of the Head of Network Operations sitting in First Class. (He could well have a pass to sit in there, and without saying too much, he is fairly knowledgeable on revenue operations.)
Based only on the photo I've got a fairly low opinion of him as he appears to have hung his jacket up by the window and placed a bag on a seat.
 

bramling

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Based only on the photo I've got a fairly low opinion of him as he appears to have hung his jacket up by the window and placed a bag on a seat.

To be fair, he may well have technically been in the right. However the posture and body language tells its own story - in the current climate this gives a very poor impression of the operation. His background is a little interesting too - left LU under a cloud to become “owner/director of a family catering business” - in fact a greasy spoon fish bar in Finchley! Evidently GTR have taken on the best...

Meanwhile, looks like Mr McPartland has spoken again, apparently Stevenage station being under pressure from all this. Does he not realise everywhere is under pressure? I can’t work out if the implication is people from elsewhere shouldn’t be using “his” Stevenage station, or is this some kind of attempt to “secure” yet more extra stops of trains which are already full?
 
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Carlisle

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Not all grades do.
I’m fairly certain all or nearly all workers employed directly by probably every franchised TOCs and quite possibly Network Rail too, will get full sick pay from day one, for contractors its down to the individual company’s T&Cs
 
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physics34

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In the old days, a threatening memo would have been sent out to staff saying anyone that went sick wouldn't be paid / needed a doctor's note. But now they're just giving in to staff who want to have the afternoon off to watch the football.

its more likely that people have just chosen not to work overtime, which as we know GTR and other companies rely on.
 

infobleep

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Amazingly Thameslink services south from London Bridge seem to be departing on time. I say amazing as everyone is leaving early for the football.

That isn't the case for Southern services from Victoira and Clapham Junction.

Upon asking why can't I board trains. I was told people had left early for the football. The passengers on the platform at Clapham Junction were even delaying services leaving as too many were standing in front of the yellow line.

That doesn't seem to be occurring at London Bridge.

Editing posting to remove something not relevant to this forum thread.
 
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sefton

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Amazingly Thameslink services south from London Bridge seem to be departing on time. I say amazing as everyone is leaving early for the football.

Things are not quite as wonderful at Kings Cross/St Pancras where they seem to be deliver the worst service possible.

14.45 St Pancras to Peterborough cancelled.
15.15 St Pancras to Peterborough 17 mins late arriving and then gave up at Finsbury Park when the driver went AWOL.
15.47 St Pancras to Peterborough astonishingly left St Pancras on time... and then took 21 minutes to get to Finsbury Park.
16:15 St Pancras to Peterborough is invisible.
16.36 Kings Cross to Peterborough, ah the wonderful GTR trick of, Delayed, Delayed, Delayed, Cancelled.
16.46 St Pancras to Peterborough cancelled.


So have a guess how many people were on the 17.06 Kings Cross to Peterborough train which GTR then turned it into a slow stopper.
 

FOH

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I can’t say anything for Thameslink but Southern at London Bridge aren’t so good this evening with every other Metro service cancelled due to a shortage of train crew
 

Fred26

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I've had a letter from Nick Brown today, along with an 'info sheet' reiterating the idea that it's all Network Rail's fault. I accept NWR are to blame for some of this mess, but training the drivers was down to GTR and they just... didn't. Unfortunately some staff are believing this propaganda.
 

Failed Unit

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I've had a letter from Nick Brown today, along with an 'info sheet' reiterating the idea that it's all Network Rail's fault. I accept NWR are to blame for some of this mess, but training the drivers was down to GTR and they just... didn't. Unfortunately some staff are believing this propaganda.

I really hope that a report sometime will officially finger GTR and DFT for this mess. I find it really worrying that Nick Brown can sleep at night thinking the organisation he is leading is doing a good job and has done nothing wrong. It just puts the passengers (and probably staffs) backs up that the GTR management think we are that stupid.

Oh well he hopefully be exposed next week when things are exactly the same as the are this week despite the miracle timetable.
 

bramling

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I really hope that a report sometime will officially finger GTR and DFT for this mess. I find it really worrying that Nick Brown can sleep at night thinking the organisation he is leading is doing a good job and has done nothing wrong. It just puts the passengers (and probably staffs) backs up that the GTR management think we are that stupid.

Oh well he hopefully be exposed next week when things are exactly the same as the are this week despite the miracle timetable.

It’s obvious Govia and certain individuals within it are going to try and save their reputations. Nick Brown has been around a bit, almost as a consultant, so this is the last thing he needs on his CV. Evidently they don’t feel they can blame DFT, so this leaves Network Rail as the line of lease resistance, especially as they have their own reasons why they can’t really upset the politicians.

It will be interesting to see what comes out over time, or if someone in GTR breaks loose and opens their mouth. We will know the franchise is about to be pulled if the mud slinging suddenly steps up a gear.
 
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