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Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

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ChiefPlanner

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We are already getting class 9 blindness in the Norwood Junction area with all the London Overground and Thameslink services running as such and this is even with the reduced service that’s currently runnning. In fact the trains that now stand out are the 1Exx Uckfield’s, 1Pxx Caterhams/Tottenham’s 1Kxx Epsom’s. When a class 9 TL gets diverted on to the slows it’s a job to spot them from the ARLs and not send then to West Croydon.


I can understand all that - it is a "risk" - when I were a lad class 9's were 25 mph unbraked , lumbering coal trains treading around the coalfields.

ARS would surely understand the difference - even for a "9" for a BML as oppossed to a WC / Palace local ? - or it should IMHO.
 
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hwl

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I can understand all that - it is a "risk" - when I were a lad class 9's were 25 mph unbraked , lumbering coal trains treading around the coalfields.

ARS would surely understand the difference - even for a "9" for a BML as oppossed to a WC / Palace local ? - or it should IMHO.
Except south of Anerley is TBASC territory with no ARS and North of Anerley is TBROC with TMS coming soon.
 

dlj83

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Is the rear first class no longer declassified on Sutton Loop, I went in to charge my phone and told by a member of staff this is the first class only section
 
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Is the rear first class no longer declassified on Sutton Loop, I went in to charge my phone and told by a member of staff this is the first class only section

As far as I'm aware rear 1st class section on all class 700s remains declassified. Was the member of staff wearing a name badge that said "Mark Boon" by any chance?
 

Sunset route

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I can understand all that - it is a "risk" - when I were a lad class 9's were 25 mph unbraked , lumbering coal trains treading around the coalfields.

ARS would surely understand the difference - even for a "9" for a BML as oppossed to a WC / Palace local ? - or it should IMHO.

ARS can and will have to be switched off at times.

Except south of Anerley is TBASC territory with no ARS and North of Anerley is TBROC with TMS coming soon.

Strictly not true as far as the ASC, well not in the not to distant future. But just how much TMS and ARS, if it’s proven to work is in sorting out this timetable, well only time will tell when it goes live.
 

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Is the rear first class no longer declassified on Sutton Loop, I went in to charge my phone and told by a member of staff this is the first class only section

I believe Sutton loop is declassified at both ends. Other routes the rear is declassified.
 

Bedpan

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Yesterday (I think it was) there were delays which were stated to be due to problems with the third rail between Blackfriars and St Pancras. I can cope with that as there always seem to be problems with the third rail between Farringdon and St Pancras. More of a disappointment is that today's 20.59 from Harpenden to Cambridge isn't running. I was really looking foirward to getting from Harpenden to Stevenage in two minutes. But at last we have signs of the exciting new journey opportunities that they have been boasting about for the last few years. 111.png .
 

ChiefPlanner

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ARS can and will have to be switched off at times.


Sometimes ARS can be too clever ! (one for a face to face sometime , but it stiched up Liverpool Street in it's early days by being to logical !) - thank you for your excellcxk
ARS can and will have to be switched off at times.



Strictly not true as far as the ASC, well not in the not to distant future. But just how much TMS and ARS, if it’s proven to work is in sorting out this timetable, well only time will tell when it goes live.

Thanks - previous occasions has found ARS a bit too theoretical (Liverpool St in it's early days!) - thanks for your clarification .
 

Steve Harris

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Apparently Thameslink was fun last night.

A work colleague was coming back from London St Pancras at 22.30 (hoping to catch the 22.45 Peterborough).
Power supply was cut south of the station and nothing ran for about 10 mins before southbound was running again. Nothing was running northbound for nearly half an hour though. Luckily he headed to Kings Cross for the 23.06.

Good thing i had primed him about the game of St Pancras, Kings Cross roulette as the 22.45 was capped at London Bridge!

Yesterday (I think it was) there were delays which were stated to be due to problems with the third rail between Blackfriars and St Pancras. I can cope with that as there always seem to be problems with the third rail between Farringdon and St Pancras .

After looking at RTT tonight, it looks like yesterdays culprit might of been 9S64 21:08 Brighton - Cambridge. As it seems to have sat down at Blackfriars !

1 Early at Blackfriars Jcn and 72 Late at Blackfriars itself.

Looking at other services which went through the core late last night, it makes grim reading. 49 Late, 51 Late and 55 Late !

So much for new travel opportunities!!

Can we on GN just have a reliable train service back!! I don't want to go to Horsham or Brighton! If im going anywhere it involves going to or through London. And im happy using the tube or changing trains.
 

infobleep

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In the future, the Traffic Management System, or at least the sorts I have seen, will seek to create all sorts of projections for the train and afford the Signaller the best choice at any one time. If a 'stopper' from Cambridge to Maidstone is hitting Woolmer Green about the same time (or likely will) as a Peterborough to Horsham then it might advise the Signaller to send the Horsham onto the fast line at Hitchin and will also update the platform workings at Kings Cross of any following trains such as LNER or GN Kings Lynn services.

Here's hoping it all eventually works itself out. *Doesn't hold out much hope*
Would it also update the predicted arrival or departure times at King's Cross to give a reasonably accurate time?
 

infobleep

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I believe Sutton loop is declassified at both ends. Other routes the rear is declassified.
It is declassified at both ends for most but not all services. Several, is it 4?, have first class. However the rear is always declassified in when first class is in operation.

If the member of staff waited long enough it may have even said so on the screen.

What train were you on? Maybe it was one of the rare ones with first class and the staff member forget the rear is always declsssifiedmf
 

4-SUB 4732

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Would it also update the predicted arrival or departure times at King's Cross to give a reasonably accurate time?

I believe it should. It can also be programmed to include TSRs and such so that the Signaller / Traffic Manager / Route Controller can look at all of the projections.

I was shown the Thales system and was very impressed. They simulated a TSR of 20mph on the Up Fast near Potters Bar which would have added a considerable number of minutes delay to a train; along with some trains from Scotland coming in late and so on. The result was a number of well-drawn speed/time graph lines and such which then fed into the Kings Cross platform workings as what time the train would actually arrive and so on. They then also simulated trains being set-swapped as a result of the Scotland delays so that trains left for the North on time and so on; and all in all I was quite enthused.

What they will be able to do with Thameslink and such could prove very useful to effective regulation at almost every step of the journey i.e. Hitchin, Woolmer Green, Marshmoor.
 

Nick66

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As far as I'm aware rear 1st class section on all class 700s remains declassified.
Clearly this is the case as my standard class Oyster card was checked twice in the rear first class this morning, once by a Southeastern RPI and once by a GTR one. Plus the Southeastern RPI’s colleague had already scanned my card as I was walking down the train!
 

ComUtoR

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I was shown the Thales system and was very impressed. They simulated a TSR of 20mph on the Up Fast near Potters Bar which would have added a considerable number of minutes delay to a train; along with some trains from Scotland coming in late and so on.

Can it simulate Driver behavior ? Does it factor Professional Driving Policies ? What about marginal time allowances ?
 

4-SUB 4732

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Can it simulate Driver behavior ? Does it factor Professional Driving Policies ? What about marginal time allowances ?

Don't believe it does that, but in future it will probably be the case that Posh to London is on ERTMS with automatic trains so it won't matter...
 

ComUtoR

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Don't believe it does that, but in future it will probably be the case that Posh to London is on ERTMS with automatic trains so it won't matter...

Posh ?

Our ATO will Soon™ be in operation but its on a tiny, but significant, part of the routes. As I understand it, everything will be designed and pushed so that this tiny portion of line gets the trains in and out in the right order and in a timely and efficient manner. Granted, most of us really do not believe this will work and it will collapse on a regular basis, but on paper it needs to allow for the human element and allow for the TOCs time allowances. Time allowances could easily be programed it as they are fixed times and if it simulates a split then surely those times are programmed in to the simulation ?

It needs to allow a margin of error for the Driver and the TOC PDPs. No matter how well the computer can predict the speed and time graphs, without allowing for how a Driver drives the unit seems to be a rather big oversight.

I'm both looking forward to it and dreading it all at the same time.
 

4-SUB 4732

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Posh ?

Our ATO will Soon™ be in operation but its on a tiny, but significant, part of the routes. As I understand it, everything will be designed and pushed so that this tiny portion of line gets the trains in and out in the right order and in a timely and efficient manner. Granted, most of us really do not believe this will work and it will collapse on a regular basis, but on paper it needs to allow for the human element and allow for the TOCs time allowances. Time allowances could easily be programed it as they are fixed times and if it simulates a split then surely those times are programmed in to the simulation ?

It needs to allow a margin of error for the Driver and the TOC PDPs. No matter how well the computer can predict the speed and time graphs, without allowing for how a Driver drives the unit seems to be a rather big oversight.

I'm both looking forward to it and dreading it all at the same time.

Peterborough = Posh.

And yes, I agree with the element of needing some sort of driver allowance. Perhaps they should consider a 92-95% of line speed for the time graph as well as a +10% of dwell time allowance too (e.g. 66 seconds at a 1 minute stop or 33 seconds at a 30 second stop).
 

MikeWM

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A local radio channel has adverts for GN telling us to take a weekend day trip to Cambridge.

Is that really a wise advert to run at the moment? o_O
 

jon0844

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A local radio channel has adverts for GN telling us to take a weekend day trip to Cambridge.

Is that really a wise advert to run at the moment? o_O

I am sure you could make it to Cambridge in a weekend, if you set off early enough on Saturday, but I'm not convinced you could get back.

Was it promoted as an adventure trip?
 

TheDavibob

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Not to break up the "TL is rubbish" thread, but there's been only a single cancelled Saturday fast from Kings Cross to Cambridge and vice versa in the last four weeks, with admittedly a several minute delay commonplace.

Yes, the single hourly Saturday service is crap, but it's still a journey that can be made, and made without any problems. [And I know nobody is being serious, but at least slag off TL for the things they've actually been rubbish at].
 
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I was monitoring my 1554 FPK to HIT and noted it left Horsham 7 minutes late but as a result skip stopped between Gatwick Airport (where it departed 6 minutes late) and East Croydon. That seems quite ridiculous that a 6-7 minute late run causes this. It generally sits at FPK for 4 mins!
 

infobleep

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I believe it should. It can also be programmed to include TSRs and such so that the Signaller / Traffic Manager / Route Controller can look at all of the projections.

I was shown the Thales system and was very impressed. They simulated a TSR of 20mph on the Up Fast near Potters Bar which would have added a considerable number of minutes delay to a train; along with some trains from Scotland coming in late and so on. The result was a number of well-drawn speed/time graph lines and such which then fed into the Kings Cross platform workings as what time the train would actually arrive and so on. They then also simulated trains being set-swapped as a result of the Scotland delays so that trains left for the North on time and so on; and all in all I was quite enthused.

What they will be able to do with Thameslink and such could prove very useful to effective regulation at almost every step of the journey i.e. Hitchin, Woolmer Green, Marshmoor.
It's a shame that couldn't be brought in when the new timetable came in. Could it be that the new timetable only works with that in place?
 

Failed Unit

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Not to break up the "TL is rubbish" thread, but there's been only a single cancelled Saturday fast from Kings Cross to Cambridge and vice versa in the last four weeks, with admittedly a several minute delay commonplace.

Yes, the single hourly Saturday service is crap, but it's still a journey that can be made, and made without any problems. [And I know nobody is being serious, but at least slag off TL for the things they've actually been rubbish at].

Lucky for the people that can use the fast. Those on wanting to use the ones that stop places are not so fortunate. Take the ones due to stop at Welwyn North. Frequently cancelled giving a 2 hour gap in the service. I guess the fast does better as it is not 700 operated.

Speaking of which. At Finsbury Park now. 1742 Cambridge is here. Lots of empty seats. I guess with its poor reliability people avoid it.
 

Ianno87

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A local radio channel has adverts for GN telling us to take a weekend day trip to Cambridge.

Is that really a wise advert to run at the moment? o_O

Took a wife and three kids from Cambridge to Brighton and back for the day on Saturday with no hiccups, so seems reasonable. Admittedly via GA on the way out (Saturday mid-AM GN trains from Cambridge always unpleasantly busy), but fast back from King's Cross was fine.
 

jon0844

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Not to break up the "TL is rubbish" thread, but there's been only a single cancelled Saturday fast from Kings Cross to Cambridge and vice versa in the last four weeks, with admittedly a several minute delay commonplace.

Yes, the single hourly Saturday service is crap, but it's still a journey that can be made, and made without any problems. [And I know nobody is being serious, but at least slag off TL for the things they've actually been rubbish at].

I was of course exaggerating for comic effect and for the most part, the reduced timetable runs. However there are still quite a few cancellations due to a shortage of train crew that create big gaps in service.

While 'golden trains' will be prioritised to get people home (or a bus or taxi must be paid for), the real issue is that if you did a day trip then you'd have to keep checking the times and plan well ahead to get to the station because missing one could mean a two hour gap.

And if an earlier train got cancelled you may find your train extra busy, making for an uncomfortable trip.

I'd sooner go somewhere with a higher service frequency and more reliability. I suppose the only backup is if there's a cancellation or two then you'll likely be allowed to travel via Liverpool Street but that isn't as quick and certainly not great for those wanting stations along the line.
 

Failed Unit

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I was of course exaggerating for comic effect and for the most part, the reduced timetable runs. However there are still quite a few cancellations due to a shortage of train crew that create big gaps in service.

While 'golden trains' will be prioritised to get people home (or a bus or taxi must be paid for), the real issue is that if you did a day trip then you'd have to keep checking the times and plan well ahead to get to the station because missing one could mean a two hour gap.

And if an earlier train got cancelled you may find your train extra busy, making for an uncomfortable trip.

I'd sooner go somewhere with a higher service frequency and more reliability. I suppose the only backup is if there's a cancellation or two then you'll likely be allowed to travel via Liverpool Street but that isn't as quick and certainly not great for those wanting stations along the line.

Exactly.

I don’t travel south at the weekend unless i have no choice.

If I want to travel North I drive. Normally 20% of GN trains are cancelled at the weekend. The majority of these are the London - Cambridge stoppers, I can nearly drive to Cambridge it the time I am waiting for the cancelled train.

Many feel the same judging by loadings considering there is less capacity then this time last year and people were routinely left behind.
 
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