• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

Status
Not open for further replies.

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
A few cancellations today. A couple on the Peterborough-Horsham route which isn't great given the 2tph service up that way. Let's see how the evening high peak fares.

Some staff sickness might impact services between Horsham and Peterborough tonight.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

samuelmorris

Established Member
Joined
18 Jul 2013
Messages
5,121
Location
Brentwood, Essex
Sutton loop timetable is looking much more like 2tph now though, which is good. I can only see one cancellation so far, for passenger illness, which I think is well within tolerance.
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
What time was it? I think most trains ran yesterday didn't they? There seems to be have been a short gap early morning where a train terminated short and started at Finsbury Park, and that could have been just about anything. Maybe a driver arrived late because a taxi didn't turn up. Who knows?

I don't think GTR lies. Sure, they've milked a situation outside of their control by really emphasising it isn't their fault, but they don't lie outright. Train crew issues are stated as that. Operational incidents may be crew related but not a shortage (e.g. Driver stuck on a train outside the station to relieve the driver ahead) or train planning/rostering mistakes.

Are there actual examples of outright lies? How could they expect not to be found out?

An example of an outright lie can be found by watching Charles Horton’s interview with the press on the Sunday and Monday after the timetable was introduced. Take a look at it again. They were found fairly quickly but definitely in July when it was clear this was not minor teething problems.

Blaming network rail for everything may by some not be considered as a lie as they are partly accountable. But the fact the still can operate a weekend service and can’t provide a date when they will also shows an organisation that can’t be trusted either.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
I was/am talking about day to day explanations of delays though. But fair point about the bosses, Grayling etc.
 

Failed Unit

Established Member
Joined
26 Jan 2009
Messages
8,857
Location
Central Belt
I was/am talking about day to day explanations of delays though. But fair point about the bosses, Grayling etc.

Day to day they stretch the truth a bit. I know I don’t know the diagrams so it is possible that a Hertford - Moorgate service is caught up in a reactionary delay to a signal failure in East Croydon. But it never seems credible when they put it on the monitors.
 

Fred26

Member
Joined
5 Mar 2010
Messages
1,107
What time was it? I think most trains ran yesterday didn't they? There seems to be have been a short gap early morning where a train terminated short and started at Finsbury Park, and that could have been just about anything. Maybe a driver arrived late because a taxi didn't turn up. Who knows?

I don't think GTR lies. Sure, they've milked a situation outside of their control by really emphasising it isn't their fault, but they don't lie outright. Train crew issues are stated as that. Operational incidents may be crew related but not a shortage (e.g. Driver stuck on a train outside the station to relieve the driver ahead) or train planning/rostering mistakes.

Are there actual examples of outright lies? How could they expect not to be found out?

Saturday afternoon.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
Day to day they stretch the truth a bit. I know I don’t know the diagrams so it is possible that a Hertford - Moorgate service is caught up in a reactionary delay to a signal failure in East Croydon. But it never seems credible when they put it on the monitors.

I think in that example, it would seem rather unlikely to be connected... but you'd be surprised what can happen. A train that started from King's Cross is impacted by the late running train from East Croydon to the north, with a driver that is to take over a 313 at Welwyn Garden City, to Moorgate which then does its return working to Hertford. Train ultimately leaves WGC 15 minutes late and is run fast to Finsbury Park and then has to go into King's Cross. Now a Hertford train from Moorgate is cancelled and starts from Finsbury Park.... but is late...

The whole problem with the new timetable is how things recover from relatively minor issues in their own right.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
I wasn't told an exact time, but I've come to the same conclusion looking through deleted e-mails.

A lot of trains that were announced as being cancelled actually ran in the end.

I do know that in the past when this has happened, it still causes problems because you or I would check our phone and see it cancelled and not automatically check again in 15 minutes to see it uncancelled. Plus if I found out later it ran, and I'd been late or paid for a taxi etc, I'd be rather upset!
 

mongoose

Member
Joined
21 Feb 2018
Messages
26
Currently sitting on the 1821 Kings Cross to Cambridge just south of Finsbury Park. Driver says the train ahead in platform 7 is waiting for a driver. I think that train is the 1824 to Peterborough. Not sure where the driver is coming from but I sure hope he’s not on my train!
 

ijmad

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2016
Messages
1,810
Location
UK
Some staff sickness might impact services between Horsham and Peterborough tonight.

Yeah, looks like one missing diagram Peterborough-Horsham and back tonight, right? At least they've not had any consecutive cancellations.

Normally there'd be a reserve driver to cover sickness though, no?
 

Aictos

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
10,403
Yeah, looks like one missing diagram Peterborough-Horsham and back tonight, right? At least they've not had any consecutive cancellations.

Normally there'd be a reserve driver to cover sickness though, no?

Ought to be a driver "spare" as it were but it depends if they were available and not asked to do something else.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
Currently sitting on the 1821 Kings Cross to Cambridge just south of Finsbury Park. Driver says the train ahead in platform 7 is waiting for a driver. I think that train is the 1824 to Peterborough. Not sure where the driver is coming from but I sure hope he’s not on my train!

I think you'll find the driver was indeed stuck on a 2Cnn train behind the train awaiting relief.
 

sefton

Member
Joined
30 Oct 2017
Messages
590
Yeah, looks like one missing diagram Peterborough-Horsham and back tonight, right? At least they've not had any consecutive cancellations.

They have, leaving their customers with an hour and half gap in services.
19:48 Peterborough to Horsham - 9J61 cancelled - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73140/2018/12/10/advanced
20:48 Peterborough to Horsham - 9J65 cancelled
- http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73150/2018/12/10/advanced

And the service which should have run in between - 20:18 9J63 started 15 minutes late so meant GTR playing train sets and skipping stops; although that was an utter waste of time as it still ended up 38 late at Finsbury Park - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73145/2018/12/10/advanced

So on day one of the new timetable an utter shambles of a service this evening. Pathetic.
 

Surreytraveller

On Moderation
Joined
21 Oct 2009
Messages
2,810
They have, leaving their customers with an hour and half gap in services.
19:48 Peterborough to Horsham - 9J61 cancelled - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73140/2018/12/10/advanced
20:48 Peterborough to Horsham - 9J65 cancelled
- http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73150/2018/12/10/advanced

And the service which should have run in between - 20:18 9J63 started 15 minutes late so meant GTR playing train sets and skipping stops; although that was an utter waste of time as it still ended up 38 late at Finsbury Park - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73145/2018/12/10/advanced

So on day one of the new timetable an utter shambles of a service this evening. Pathetic.
Did no trains make additional stops to make up for 9J63 running fast?
And the 38 late at FPK was caused by the signal failure. Should GTR have forseen that?
 

332 > 444

Member
Joined
22 Feb 2007
Messages
531
Location
London
Currently sitting on the 1821 Kings Cross to Cambridge just south of Finsbury Park. Driver says the train ahead in platform 7 is waiting for a driver. I think that train is the 1824 to Peterborough. Not sure where the driver is coming from but I sure hope he’s not on my train!
It's happened!
 

ijmad

Established Member
Joined
7 Jan 2016
Messages
1,810
Location
UK
They have, leaving their customers with an hour and half gap in services.
So on day one of the new timetable an utter shambles of a service this evening. Pathetic.

Indeed. I posted before the final evening collapse. Precious little on Twitter from TLRail.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
Did no trains make additional stops to make up for 9J63 running fast?
And the 38 late at FPK was caused by the signal failure. Should GTR have forseen that?

Trains were being cautioned on two or three lines through WGC. There was very unlikely to be much chance of adding stops. More likely cancelling trains and organising buses and alternative route ticket acceptance.
 

sefton

Member
Joined
30 Oct 2017
Messages
590
More likely cancelling trains and organising buses and alternative route ticket acceptance.

No alternative routes between Peterborough and Hitchin for ticket acceptance to be of any use and no buses either.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
28,013
Location
UK
No hiding behind the "it's all Network Rail's fault we didn't have time to plan" line now.

Apparently the driver was supposed to 'go all the way' so it shouldn't have been an issue. I expect there was a mistake when issuing the diagram and the driver reported late that s/he couldn't go beyond Finsbury Park. Let's pray these become very isolated incidents and this was a one off.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top