Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[OwenB]

It ran. Didn’t stop anywhere. Many services 30+ late, skip stopping etc

Typical morning on Great Northern.

"Didn't stop anywhere". Haha, useful! I can live with being a bit late in the morning, but I'd better get home in time for the football tonight!

 

[arb]

That is worth bearing in mind. I don’t think I’ve seen a revenue inspector on a train since these operational incidents began.

I've continued to notice RPI's changing trains at Ely station at roughly the same frequency as I previously did (which is pretty low - only a few times a month), although I've not been on the same train as one of them myself. Yesterday morning (Sunday) was the first time my Ely-Cambridge ticket has been checked on board by any of Great Northern, Greater Anglia or Cross Country since the timetable change.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Several southbound GN services made additional calls at Stevenage this morning (departure boards displaying the 'stand back...' message, so not originally intended to stop) to help cover for the cancelled Thameslink services. The irony is that most of these were already crush-loaded, so few people could board at Stevenage, if any.

No northbound services from Arlesey from 0603 until 0825 this morning. A replacement bus did leave Stevenage at around 0655 running to St Neots where I assume a change onto another bus/coach would take place. Nevertheless I'm glad I did commit to my idea of using VTEC to get to Peterborough today instead of Thameslink.

 

[gazthomas]

I hadn't been on a Thameslink train in the peak since the timetable change so I thought how bad could it be this morning. Very bad! St Albans City absolutely rammed. Half the ticket machines out too, a ploy or accident! I got on a train but it is full to the brim. Suggest they remove the unpopular seats from the 700s altogether! To say they have these problems due to a lack of drivers is quite a joke - simple thing to work out?

 

[philjo]

The additional stops at Letchworth on the Kings Lynn trains were not showing on the station screens this morning. Tthough they were showing on journeycheck.
Station staff only knew once the staff at Royston phoned to say it had left and would be calling at Letchworth.

0628 stopper from Cambridge was 30 minutes late today. at least it still called at all stations to WGC then fast to Kings cross today so I could change and get the 0802 stopper which started from WGC on time. - last Thursday the 0628 only called at Hitchin and stevenage.

 

[rdwarr]

Aren't the current published GN/Thameslink rules that you can catch whatever trains you like which might vaguely get you somewhere near your destination, irrespective of the normal rules. So in this circumstance doubling back would have been fine (and probably allowed for a Delay Repay claim as well).

It looks like it. Yesterday they were advising people travelling London to Hitchin to double back from Cambridge!

 

[Hadders]

Horton's up before the Transport Select Committee at 16:45 today. Should be a right blood bath.

 

[Table 52]

Horton's up before the Transport Select Committee at 16:45 today. Should be a right blood bath.

Given he's on his way out anyway, I hope he actually tells them the truth of what's going on, rather than a than the normal GTR nonsense of "everything is ok, apart from a couple of minor delays which we'll have sorted out soon. Well, soon-ish"

 

[GoatSarah]

I'm on the 10:14 CBG-KGX express. It's been pressed into service to stop at Royston, Letchworth, Hitchin and Finsbury Park.

We've just departed Hitchin. Nobody is getting on at these extra stations. I guess they've all given up.

ETA: Stopped at Stevenage too. Quite a few people got on. Now standing room only.

 

[Taunton]

A major remodel on a route that drivers know is quite different to the new Canal Tunnels which then take drivers onto routes completely new to them.

But only the Canal Tunnels were actually new. The rest of the route north or south has been available for ever for familiarisation training.

It will be interesting to see how Crossrail does it, with Reading crews suddenly driving to Shenfield when they link up, and GE crews driving to Reading.

I wonder also when the general press will click on to the fact that Finsbury Park to Blackfriars, the key section where crews require familiarisation, is actually auto driving where the crew do not "drive" at all.

 

[Failed Unit]

It is interesting that when GN give the view that this is all network rails fault - they only gave us 2 weeks to plan. (Which is absolutely nonsense - but suits Horton & Grayling to keep this lie going)

The have now had 6 weeks things are getting worse. They claim that if network rail had done their job properly, they would have had 3 months to plan. So by the end of July - everything should be perfect. (I suspect the blame network rail lie will be exposed during August).

If they were that short on drivers, we have a lot of pain to go. Considering traction knowledge is also an issue maybe time to get the 365s back in service so the London - Cambridge service can run. Yes 365s don’t have SDO but that impacts 3 stations. I think missing 3 stations is better than the current total cancellation.

 

[paul332]

Service remains utter bollocks even on the legacy lines. Hourly service north from BedPan local stations between 08.00 and 10.00 this morning, against 15-minute previous schedule. 45-minute gaps southbound in middle of peak.

A month in and it's getting even worse. UK rail is the world's laughing stock.

 

[Failed Unit]

Certainly makes you wonder how long they can milk. “This is all network rails fault”. As it will certainly be exposed as only a contribution rather than the entire problem.

 

[philjo]

GN Station staff told me this morning that the control at SDC transferred to Three Bridges at the weekend. However they haven't yet been given any contact details so have no method to contact Three Bridges. Previously they could phone Kings Cross to request extra stops etc to replace other cancelled services.
So this morning they were getting all their information by phone from other stations along the line to find out where trains are stopping. the journeycheck screen on my phone had more information than the station staff had available for services making extra stops that were mostly not showing on the station screens.

 

[swt_passenger]

It will be interesting to see how Crossrail does it, with Reading crews suddenly driving to Shenfield when they link up, and GE crews driving to Reading...

Crossrail (as TfL Rail) already has their own separate staff, some separated out from GA a few years ago but many newly recruited. AIUI they won’t be transferring any current GWR crews. So it shouldn’t be a case of someone suddenly needing to learn a new route at short notice for a particular day, it should be doable well in advance.

Also just been mentioned in the 345 thread that TfL Rail are already running as far as at least Maidenhead for testing and training purposes.

 

[Fred26]

GN Station staff told me this morning that the control at SDC transferred to Three Bridges at the weekend. However they haven't yet been given any contact details so have no method to contact Three Bridges. Previously they could phone Kings Cross to request extra stops etc to replace other cancelled services.
So this morning they were getting all their information by phone from other stations along the line to find out where trains are stopping. the journeycheck screen on my phone had more information than the station staff had available for services making extra stops that were mostly not showing on the station screens.

I don't know which station you travel from, but all stations were given Three Bridges contact information months ago. The contact for CIS and PA was transferred from Kings Cross to Three Bridges a while ago now, and contact details were given before that.

 

[jon0844]

I believe SDC is still running in tandem too, in case of any problems, until early July.

Network Rail is apparently funding a lot of the rail replacement buses so I guess they've accepted a fair degree of liability, or are feeling very charitable.

I wonder also when the general press will click on to the fact that Finsbury Park to Blackfriars, the key section where crews require familiarisation, is actually auto driving where the crew do not "drive" at all.

Are they actually doing this in day to day service yet? I thought it was just tested.

PLUS don't drivers still need to be fully trained as they can at any moment need to revert to manual control? So if the press does go with a story about ATO meaning drivers don't need to have the route knowledge, they'd likely end up looking rather silly!

 

[bramling]

I believe SDC is still running in tandem too, in case of any problems, until early July.

Network Rail is apparently funding a lot of the rail replacement buses so I guess they've accepted a fair degree of liability, or are feeling very charitable.

Going forward I wonder what plans, if any, are going to be made for compensating people. I know quite a few season ticket holders now using alternative means, in particular getting to London via High Barnet or Cockfosters, who are quite rightly furious that they have paid for a service which is now basically unusable. I'm glad I didn't renew mine having predicted this would turn into a farce, although it irritates that because of this shambles I have been pressured into purchasing an additional car.

I'm having to use the service to get to London today as a one-off, and I certainly have no intention of paying for the experience.

On a different note, I’ve heard from a couple of sources that 700 reliability is also slipping. As if things weren’t bad enough! How long before those 365s at Ely return to GN? There are still at least two odd-number units in service on GN.

 

[Failed Unit]

Actually that is a positive for GTR

They will claim for non-availablity of the train from Siemens. Then just use a set they don’t have a driver for (and blame network rail)

Lots of compensation for GTR. They make a decent amount of money. They believe they have done thier job well.

 

[Mauve]

The departure board at St Neots this morning made for depressing viewing. One train to London between 0800 and 0900, and multiple replacement buses going to Peterborough. There were only two actual trains showing on the first page.

As for the return journey, the 1246 from St Pancras was cancelled. I then sat at Finsbury Park (blocking platform 7) on the 1316 from St Pancras, enjoying the cosy interior of a class 700 for about 30 minutes waiting for a driver. They couldn't find anyone and the train was cancelled. The next Peterborough service has just left Finsbury Park about 20 minutes late.

I don't see any real improvement over the first week of the timetable, the Peterborough route still isn't working. St Neots station felt strangely empty this morning too, there were far fewer people than normal for the time of day and the car park was also quiet. Given how few services are running I'd have expected them to be much busier. As other posters have said, maybe people have just given up.

 

[HH]

Given he's on his way out anyway, I hope he actually tells them the truth of what's going on, rather than a than the normal GTR nonsense of "everything is ok, apart from a couple of minor delays which we'll have sorted out soon. Well, soon-ish"

LOL. And lose his Golden Goodbye? I think not.

 

[bramling]

I agree with all of this. The Achilles heal of GN was always the 4 car off peak services on the stoppers. This could’ve been easily solved without the need to put everything through the core.

This raises a smile from me, given my neighbour has just texted absolutely fuming that a 4-car train turned up this morning. I presume this was a 387 doing additional stops on a fast Cambridge service. It's amazing GTR can't even get that service right.

 

[GoatSarah]

15:42 KGX - Lynn service is only 4 carriages. It’s *rammed*

FFS

 

[Bikeman78]

The worst thing about all this is GN was a pretty reliable railway just a few years ago. Whilst it was fragile in that things could fall apart quickly once something comparatively small went wrong, nonetheless a lot of effort had been put in by National Express to get the basics right, such that most of the time things didn't go wrong and the service generally ran on time. First Capital Connect continued this, and whilst they weren't to everyone's taste they did at least maintain a good service operationally, increased capacity, and had a good flow of information such that when disruption did happen people generally knew what was going on.

Since the 2000s this railway *should* have got even better - with additional platforms at Peterborough and Cambridge, the Hitchin flyover, extra tracks available in the Alexandra Palace/Finsbury Park area, an extra platform at King's Cross, extra trains, and more reliable and quicker 387s replacing the 317s/321s. Instead, thanks to the Thameslink Programme and its associated TSGN franchise, this dependable rail service has been totally destroyed, and I just can't see it recovering to anything like the same level of dependability unless the whole programme is looked at again.

I hear there have been issues at High Barnet with the station car park filling up unusually early, I wonder why that is?!

I agree with this. I used to ride on the GN 317s quite a lot and normally it all ran to plan. The mainline fleet was intesively used with 60 out of 65 units (10 out of 12 317s, 12 out of 13 321s and 38 out of 40 365s) required for the peaks. In the event of a 365 shortage then it was normal to see all 12 317s running. One time a pair of 317s failed on me at Peterborough. The driver took them empty to Hornsey, picked up another pair and took them to King's Cross where they split for their next booked workings. Meanwhile the knackered pair was fixed for the afternoon peak.

 

[ijmad]

Almost double the number of cancellations today vs Friday. Oh dear.

 

[nlogax]

Today's Transport Committee fun begins at 4.45pm. It'll be live at https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/7939155a-a0a9-4e89-8d60-109b0e86ad3d

 

[OwenB]

Almost double the number of cancellations today vs Friday. Oh dear.

I honestly don't understand how the service is getting worse, rather than showing some glimmer of improvement. It's very dispiriting.

 

[bramling]

I honestly don't understand how the service is getting worse, rather than showing some glimmer of improvement. It's very dispiriting.

The reason it's getting worse is because the whole setup is simply falling apart -- it's simply not possible to continue attempting to run a railway with this level of uncertainty going on 24/7.

Just listening to Horton now, I find it incredible that they say there was an unexpected mismatch with driver route knowledge. How on earth can that have been unexpected? Also, they say the timetable was late being delivered, but surely most of the late changes to the timetable were tweaks to schedules to make them work - the basic service pattern has changed little since the drafts came out. I'm finding the Northern issues more plausible - late finish of electrification - however none of the ThamesLink/ excuses really wash.

 

[OwenB]

The reason it's getting worse is because the whole setup is simply falling apart -- it's simply not possible to continue attempting to run a railway with this level of uncertainty going on 24/7.

Just listening to Horton now, I find it incredible that they say there was an unexpected mismatch with driver route knowledge. How on earth can that have been unexpected? Also, they say the timetable was late being delivered, but surely most of the late changes to the timetable were tweaks to schedules to make them work - the basic service pattern has changed little since the drafts came out. I'm finding the Northern issues more plausible - late finish of electrification - however none of the ThamesLink/ excuses really wash.

It's the uncertainty that's making people, myself included, have very long days at the moment. Aiming at 2 trains earlier in the morning to get into work is an absolute chore (ironically today the two earlier ones were cancelled so ended up on my default train). They really need to implement this emergency timetable so people can plan their lives again, rather than taking pot luck when one turns up at the station.

 

[GoatSarah]

I honestly don't understand how the service is getting worse, rather than showing some glimmer of improvement. It's very dispiriting.

I wrote about this a couple of weeks ago. It's in a death spiral. They can't get drivers where they need to be, spoken they cut the service and introduce extra stops on the trains that do run.

This results in the trains they do run being late with the knock on effect that drivers aren't even able to be where they need to be to run the emergency timetable.

So they cut some more trains.

This is a self reinforcing feedback loop. At some point the service will completely collapse.

If they wanted to make it better they would abandon any attempts to run through the core from GN and try to revert to the previous service pattern as their emergency timetable, with the 365s back, perhaps at slightly altered times. Then get someone who actually knows what they're doing to try and gradually reintroduce the GN TL core services when they are able to run them without utterly disrupting GN.

Instead they are still trying to run through the core and use 700s and so the death spiral continues.