THAMESLINK services to Kent and Sussex routes 2018

[ScotGG]

Much more expensive and more hassle though

 

[Islineclear3_1]

And you would get a brand new train

 

[telstarbox]

Much more expensive and more hassle though

It's more expensive up to Zone 6, but to Radlett or anywhere further north it's the same fare because there are no separate 'Plus High Speed' fares.

 

[Class 466]

It's more expensive up to Zone 6, but to Radlett or anywhere further north it's the same fare because there are no separate 'Plus High Speed' fares.

One would assume new cheaper 'Thameslink only' fares might appear...

 

[JonathanH]

One would assume new cheaper 'Thameslink only' fares might appear...

Isn't that unlikely when there is a definite plan to remove Thameslink only fares on the Brighton line?

Perhaps they could introduce more expensive 'plus high speed' ones instead (although is that actually possible outside a certain distance from the HS1 line?).

 

[spangles]

Disregard all the current service patterns as the entire metro area will be re-cast.

When you say recast, does this mean the frequency on the metro stations will be maintained and just the timings will change? North Dulwich for example currently has far fewer trains than in the past and I was hoping they would return somewhat to normal.

 

[Class 466]

When you say recast, does this mean the frequency on the metro stations will be maintained and just the timings will change? North Dulwich for example currently has far fewer trains than in the past and I was hoping they would return somewhat to normal.

North Dulwich isn't on the SE network.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

For anyone travelling from the Medway Towns to north of St Pancras, won't it still be quicker to go via HS1 and change at STP?

Yes - but you pay a premium fare.

One of the advantages of the service is / are new links to Blackfriars / City TLK Farringdon etc (for Heathrow etc ...and of course to the delights of the Roman City of St Albans and Luton Airport for those trips to Paradise

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Yes - but you pay a premium fare.

One of the advantages of the service is / are new links to Blackfriars / City TLK Farringdon etc (for Heathrow etc ...and of course to the delights of the Roman City of St Albans and Luton Airport for those trips to Paradise

But would there be room in the core for these extra services considering the extra volume of traffic already envisaged?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

But would there be room in the core for these extra services considering the extra volume of traffic already envisaged?

They are using up the paths of what were planned as ex Tattenham services -

No core increases as far as quantum is concerned....(and frankly more traffic on offer ..) -

 

[Busaholic]

Looking through the thread not sure anyone answered this. It'll be routed via Otford, St Mary Cray and Chislehurst presumably as that's what the old London Bridge fasts from Maidstone used to do. The other route would be longer for no reason as far as I see it.

Plus using spur from Beckenham Junction on to Hayes line when that is being touted for the Underground Bakerloo extension would seem like short-term thinking.

 

[Twedds74]

A quick question out of curiosity will the service to Maidstone East Via London Bridge be routed via the Chatham loop avoiding Bromley south or via the Beckenham spur through Catford Bridge ?

I would have thought the Chislehurst - St Mary Cray spur would have been the most obvious route and vica versa. Just like the old Ash-Cx via ME fasts used to run.

 

[MrB]

I would have thought the Chislehurst - St Mary Cray spur would have been the most obvious route and vica versa. Just like the old Ash-Cx via ME fasts used to run.

That would be my guess too. Seems to have been stated that this route is most likely further up the thread.

 

[cle]

So the current Charing Cross - Lewisham - Woolwich - Dartford - Gillingham will be cut back to Dartford? Gravesend?

Will the Luton - Rainham be semi fast (Greenwich, Charlton, Woolwich, AW) ?

 

[Lexicon10uk]

According to driver mates at Dartford, the Tfl Charing X services shall run as far as Gravesend. Thameslink and Highspeed shall of course, continue beyond Gravesend.

 

[ComUtoR]

According to driver mates at Dartford, the Tfl Charing X services shall run as far as Gravesend. Thameslink and Highspeed shall of course, continue beyond Gravesend.

How do they know ? (especially the bit in bold)

 

[Lexicon10uk]

Dartford and Slade Green depots are expected to be transferred to Tfl. Gillingham is to become a shared depot - SE/GTR, Orpington GTR and Ashford SE and a new separate GTR depot possibly sited at Chart Leacon.
As said previously ( and only according to my driver mates), they will have rostered duties from Gravesend to CX. They will however, lose all routes beyond Gravesend (coastbound).

 

[ComUtoR]

Tfl is very much still a rumor. Orpington is going SE/GTR shared with a reduction in SE work and a new GTR depot there.

If anything the TfL rumor is more "everything" within the 25 and all SE metro depots would be under TfL. Including the new Orpington GTR/SE shared depot. 2018 will be a big year that's for certain. We all believe this is all being geared up to a complete split of the franchise and SE will be broken up with Metro totally coming under TfL.

Nothing has been confirmed internally other than the new depot openings.

 

[BRX]

The plan is 2tph from each side of the loop terminating in the Blackfriars bays to compliment the Thameslinks...

Are you sure? Starting when? That would be a big improvement if true.

Can anyone comment any further on this?

 

[swt_passenger]

Can anyone comment any further on this?

Diversions of the peak London Bridge to/from Wimbledon trains is my understanding from Post#90.

 

[ScotGG]

On here someone said a big consultation with many more details would be underway in July.

Bring it on. Hapless DfT control has failed Southeastern Metro.

 

[infobleep]

Would any of these new routes and changes likely require new map combinations in the routing guide?

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[SpacePhoenix]

If anything the TfL rumor is more "everything" within the 25 and all SE metro depots would be under TfL.

If true will that be all metro routes and depots coming under TFL no matter what TOC they currently are?

 

[swt_passenger]

If true will that be all metro routes and depots coming under TFL no matter what TOC they currently are?

How often has TfL's intention to take over all inner suburban routes within London been previously discussed? It's come up in every recent London area franchise discussion thread.

 

[ScotGG]

It has but very little has been known, or remarked upon, about the intentions of who controls what depot. Particularly those that on the borderline. Slade Green we can be sure will go TfL, like Grove Park, but others we don't know.

 

[MrB]

It has but very little has been known, or remarked upon, about the intentions of who controls what depot. Particularly those that on the borderline. Slade Green we can be sure will go TfL, like Grove Park, but others we don't know.

If Grove Park does go to TfL then what happens to the mainline stock that is stabled there? Does that have to go somewhere else or do SE get to keep it there?

 

[ScotGG]

Good question. maybe Grove park isn't in the 100%?

One thing I hope does come out of TfL taking over is expansion at Slade Green. One reason given for so little 12 car running on SE Metro is a lack of stabling space. Slade Green is by green belt land that would have precluded it, but in recent years a planning battle has led to a freight company gaining permission to build. This seems on hold, and I wonder if passenger trains could instead be stabled in expanded facilities.

Also, over at Plumstead, once Crossrail work is complete there will be space for more SE lines above the current space for 3 trains to be stabled. Possibly 5 more lines could be installed. It would be right next to the Crossrail yard too. With both under TfL (though with different stock and management of course) some possible economies of scale could occur in terms of facilities - eg joint cleaning depots?

 

[Bald Rick]

It has but very little has been known, or remarked upon, about the intentions of who controls what depot. Particularly those that on the borderline. Slade Green we can be sure will go TfL, like Grove Park, but others we don't know.

There's a good reason for that. It's because there is no work being done on the detail of transferring the specification of any franchise to TfL.

All that has been agreed is that it will be investigated at some time in the future.

 

[BRX]

Diversions of the peak London Bridge to/from Wimbledon trains is my understanding from Post#90.

I didn't even know those existed. Just a few services each morning/evening. So, diversion of these to Blackfriars would not really have any huge benefit for the Wimbledon Loop. No increase in frequency during the main part of the day and no improvement to late night services.

 

[Class377/5]

I didn't even know those existed. Just a few services each morning/evening. So, diversion of these to Blackfriars would not really have any huge benefit for the Wimbledon Loop. No increase in frequency during the main part of the day and no improvement to late night services.

The original idea was a 4tph Blackfriars to London Bridge via Wimbledon Loop using 20x 319 which would be part of the Southern Metro network.

That would mean you'd have a 4tph service from all stations in both directions. All services would be 8 car and run all day.