One of the eventual aims of the Thameslink project is supposedly to have trains from south of the river running as far as Kings Lynn. Have there been any plans produced as yet as to how they'll link this up? I'd have thought it'll be quite complicated, and involve a fair bit of tunneling?
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Thameslink to the Great Northern
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The tunnels are already in place. They were built as part of the general St Pancras rebuild. When travelling to Kings Cross you can see the entrance on the West side of the tracks just as you go under the new High Speed 1 fly-over.
There is no track fitted. You can see the other ends of the tunnels at the North end of the new St Pancras Thameslink platforms.
The only major complaint I will make about the new station is that the Thameslink platforms were not made as islands. i.e. to have 4 flatforms. I can already see trains backing up on the Kings Cross approaches blocking access to the main station. Let's wait and see but I fear I will be proved right in the fullness of time.
There is no track fitted. You can see the other ends of the tunnels at the North end of the new St Pancras Thameslink platforms.
The only major complaint I will make about the new station is that the Thameslink platforms were not made as islands. i.e. to have 4 flatforms. I can already see trains backing up on the Kings Cross approaches blocking access to the main station. Let's wait and see but I fear I will be proved right in the fullness of time.
mackenzie_blu
Member
Especially with a train every two minutes when you mix tourists with baggage!
PhilipW
Member
As I understand it as well, the junction north of St Pancras is not grade separated. With so many trains planned to run, that does seem to be rather shortsighted.
A northbound GN train may have to be held at St Pancras if a southbound train from Bedford is approaching. How many trains per hour do they intend to run ? 24 I think. An unplanned 1 min pause at St Pancras could easily throw the schedule out.
A northbound GN train may have to be held at St Pancras if a southbound train from Bedford is approaching. How many trains per hour do they intend to run ? 24 I think. An unplanned 1 min pause at St Pancras could easily throw the schedule out.
PhilipW
Member
Great. I am delighted to hear that the junction is grade seperated. I ws not aware of that.
Has the junction an official name ? 'St Pancras' junction or 'Kings Cross' junction perhaps
Has the junction an official name ? 'St Pancras' junction or 'Kings Cross' junction perhaps
mackenzie_blu
Member
mackenzie_blu
Member
Because by the time the tunnels from St Pancras to the GN side are open for public trains Blackfrairs will have been built and Thameslink trains will have their own clear path from Blackfriars to the Brighton main line around Bermondsey on their own tracks without any other trains interferring. Including a FCC only platform at London Bridge.
I understand what you're saying, but once the TLP is complete Blackfriars Jn will be the critical pinchpoint of the full Thameslink network because up TL services via London Bridge (18tph) will still conflict with down TL services via Elephant & Castle (6tph), and it will also be the southern end of the 24tph core.
If it weren't for the grade separation near/under StP, the critical pinchpoint would have been the future Midland Road Jn with 16tph via Kentish Town and 8tph via Finsbury Park.
If it weren't for the grade separation near/under StP, the critical pinchpoint would have been the future Midland Road Jn with 16tph via Kentish Town and 8tph via Finsbury Park.
mackenzie_blu
Member
There will be no conflict. As the rebuilding of Blackfrairs will change the layout of the station. What is currently the Thameslink side of the station (west) will become to terimating platforms where as the current termiating platforms will become Thameslink (east side). This is a reversal of the current situation.
The plan is to then termiate ALL trains from the loop at Blackfriars. There for there will be no conflict with services to/from London Bridge. This means a reduction in usefulness of the loop for their passangers but long term the plan is for all loop services to be Southern's with their trains serving Blackfrairs as a termaters.
The fact that Wimbledon Loop services may well be truncated at Blackfriars is irrelevant - as long as through TL services travel via both LB and E&C (which is the plan) there will be conflict at Blackfriars Jn while it remains at-grade, even though the terminating services will no longer be affected thanks to the Blackfriars remodelling. If the Loop services are truncated at Blackfriars than through TL stopping services to Orpington/Sevenoaks/Maidstone East will take their place and use the route via E&C.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Sadly, I fear you will be proved right. It's one thing with an eight minute gap between trains that we have at the moment, but when the gap is just half of that, things will struggle badly.
mackenzie_blu
Member
I forgot about those services! Add services via Selhurst as well to the mix and you get some issues.
The Canal Tunnels part of TLP has yet to reach the drawing board. (Or tender phase!)
I actually visited St Pancras this morning, and have a fairly good idea of how the layout should look, once completed.
Blackfriars station as has been said previously, is going to completley change both in image, and layout. The Thameslink tracks will be slewed over to where the bay platforms are currently, and the lines from Elephant & Castle will terminate where the current Thameslink line is. Its effectivley turning the station layout on its head.
As to the comment about the backing up of trains, I have every confidence that this wont happen on mass scale. Train movments will be diagramed so that there aern't any conflicting paths, and there is a staggered gap between trains, allowing for the route to be set for the next train to approach the section, and the previous to clear.
I actually visited St Pancras this morning, and have a fairly good idea of how the layout should look, once completed.
Blackfriars station as has been said previously, is going to completley change both in image, and layout. The Thameslink tracks will be slewed over to where the bay platforms are currently, and the lines from Elephant & Castle will terminate where the current Thameslink line is. Its effectivley turning the station layout on its head.
As to the comment about the backing up of trains, I have every confidence that this wont happen on mass scale. Train movments will be diagramed so that there aern't any conflicting paths, and there is a staggered gap between trains, allowing for the route to be set for the next train to approach the section, and the previous to clear.
PhilipW
Member
Sorry, what exactly are you saying ? Are you saying that the grade seperated junction north of St Pancras is not actually built yet ? You certainly imply that. If so, this is in contradiction to other correspondents.
I was implying that no p-way or equipment has yet to be installed, or even designed!
mackenzie_blu
Member
Thats kinda right as they have put current equipment on the future trackbed that will require moving before they can fit the OHLE and rail.
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